I don't blame Jay at all for JJ going to tu. I didn't mean to imply that. Like most kids his age - his school choice was probably complicated. At some level he probably just thought Eddie Reese was too hard to give up. No matter how good Jay is - Eddie's record at tu since 1977 is hard to ignore. Eddie could have five, even ten swimmers (Walker, Peirsol, Hansen, Crocker, Klueh, Spann, Weber-Gale, Walters, Shanteau) in Beijing.

I'm just disappointed in JJ!

BTW - for a tiny bit of credibility - I have met Jay several times, my sons have been to A&M swim camp multiple times, and I know well one current A&M men's swimmer.

I know Jonathon Jackson personally, and it wasn't Jay's fault that he went to UT, Jonathon just wanted some freedom, and needed a change in scenery. He also realized that it would be better for him personally to train with those at UT, which is another problem we have that hinders the amount of recruits we get. We do not have any "great" swimmers outside the college team that workout in College Station all year round, which is a selling point to recruits. I agree that he may need to be give more time, its just that I havent witnessed a definite change since Mel left, and to me at least it seems like basically the same type of coaching is going on. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a great coach and person, he is always nice and willing to help. I just think that there is always a need for change, and that cannot be accomplished when you hire a long time assistant coach after firing a long time head coach, because they are going to have similar styles and you will not have made much progress by replacing one with the other.
Outside Smoke-- First off, I do not swim with A&M. I do not agree with the fact that it is the athletes fault for not having a good attitude, at this level, the swimmers are there to get better and they know that they can't do that without hardwork. I am a strong supporter of this program and the athletes and after reading your comments I do feel that more time should be given to Jay, before any action is taken, possibly no action will need to be taken if Jay can work on recruiting and change up his workouts a little bit.

[This message has been edited by agswim15 (edited 6/16/2008 9:29p).]

[This message has been edited by agswim15 (edited 6/16/2008 9:32p).]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the point of attitudes. You talk as if you were on deck for every practice, every training session and knew every workout that has ever gone on with the team, yet you say you don't swim for them. If you are not a part of their team, don't talk or criticize like you are. Every swimmer has something to bring to the table, an attitude is one of those things. When a swimmer wakes up in the morning it is not his coaches that tell him how to feel or how to approach a set at training. It is not the coaches that tell him/her what to do in their free time. Every action taken by a swimmer is dictated by their personal attitude. They may know hard work is required, but not everyone is willing to put in the hardwork. Sometimes it can be overwhelming the amount of time required to put in. The close attention to diet, sleeping habits, school work and training takes its toll on even the most disciplined. For you to say that attitude is not up to the swimmer is a cop out and you know it. Saying that a swimmer is not responsible for their attitude is like saying a coach is not responsible for the practice. Not only are they responsible, it is their duty to have a good attitude and be on constant vigil to maintain that attitude. Knowing that hardwork is required is not the same as doing. How many swimmers have coasted by on natural talent alone, getting better only because they are gifted and never reaching their full potential? Is the coach to blame for that? Only if that coach has failed in his duty to try to motivate and inspire that athlete; otherwise the blame rests solely on the swimmer's shoulders. Don't be so naive. Man up and accept responsibility for your own actions and your own attitude.

[This message has been edited by outside smoke (edited 6/16/2008 9:52p).]

quote:

---

He also realized that it would be better for him personally to train with those at UT, which is another problem we have that hinders the amount of recruits we get. We do not have any "great" swimmers outside the college team that workout in College Station all year round, which is a selling point to recruits.

---

so what youre saying is we should just fire Holmes and hire Eddie Reese? or another former Olympic coach? That way all the former/current US Olympians would want to come to College Station to train? Bringing in loads of fast recruits as well? Sounds pretty simple to me. Byrne better get on it. The list of Olympic coaches jumping at the chance to come coach at A&M is several pages long im sure...



Note: extreme sarcasm used above

I am not saying that attitude is not a contributor when it comes to success, I just believe that at this level, most swimmers have the correct attitude.

Big Papa-- I am not saying that, what I am getting at is that we need to do something in order to impress recruits because we do not have the luxury of an olympic coach.

[This message has been edited by agswim15 (edited 6/16/2008 9:54p).]

quote:

---

at this level, MOST swimmers have the correct attitude

---

outside smoke might be suggesting that some/any of the Aggie Men might not fit into this "most" category

quote:

---

change up his workouts a little bit

---

what is it exactly that you would like to see him to do? If you dont mind me asking...

[This message has been edited by texagg09 (edited 6/16/2008 10:23p).]

Let's us not forget that Byrne did Holmes a huge disservice initially by giving him just a one year contract. That immediately told recruits that there was uncertainty in the men's program.

When Byrne gave Holmes a real contract a year later Holmes was essentially starting from scratch.

The biggest difference in my mind between a tu workout and an A&M workout is not the sets - it is who is in the pool. At tu - you see Peirsol, Hansen, Crocker, Walker, etc - all multi-Olympians and world record holders. We just don't have any guys like that (yet).

The Boyd/Holmes tandem is obviously working...to go from 18th with no swimmers in 2007 to 13th with 8? in 2008 is ALL about coaching

Examples:
-Decision to redshirt Gardner was absolutely brilliant and it paid off big-time this season for the team and for Ozzie
-Recruiting: Denisyako was a mid-year transfer that turned into a multi-school record holder in a matter of weeks
-Coaching Ability: Jason Bergstrom qualified for NCAA's INDIVIDUALLY as a walk-on...I can count on one hand the number of teams (not in the top 10) that had that happen

Bottom line here is they are doing good things and as long as they can keep up their recruiting, A&M could be top 10 and real soon at that. With Sehn coming back this year, they add a huge injection of points at every meet they will compete in all year long, including NCAA's. With another big-time swimmer or diver added to the mix, they might be top 10 in 2009.

This is regarding whether Byrne really hired Fran:

quote:

---

Byrne officially hired Franchione five years ago, even though that fact comes with an asterisk. Byrne was hired on Dec. 3, 2002, by A&M president Robert Gates, and then on Dec. 6 the two of them introduced Franchione.

Some say since Byrne hadn't been on the job long enough that Franchione's hiring falls in the lap of Gates and a few others -- like regents Erle Nye and Lowry Mays.

That's probably true, but Byrne has to shoulder some of the blame for a hire that didn't pan out. He'd have certainly taken credit for any championship that Franchione would have won.

Byrne said during the introductory press conference that he'd known Franchione for 10 years, and that the two were friends. So if Byrne had strong objections, and didn't think Franchione couldn't win big, he'd have never signed off on hiring Franchione.

"This is really going to be an exciting era for Texas A&M University," said Byrne at the time.

Byrne and Franchione appeared on the January issue of the 12th Man Magazine, giving thumbs up with the headline underneath: "Stars Aligned -- in one historic week, Texas A&M lands a powerful one-two punch."

---

http://www.aggiesports.com/football/CESSNA__Byrne_has_a_knack_for_picking_winners

I missed this men's swimming discussion a few weeks ago. Pretty interesting, and I don't have a whole lot to add. The one point I would like to throw in is that I wouldn't even say that MOST top swimmers put in the work needed to get to the top. The guys puting the hardest work in are often the very best, as expected, and the guys that walk on to D1 teams. The ones in between are a complete mixed bag of talent and effort.

If one of these "slacker" guys comes to A&M there is not the level of expectation and competition to weed him out. On the other hand, several friends of mine who swam at UT and weren't willing to put in the work retired after a year or two on the team. I also have a few friends who walked on to UT, trained their a$$ off in a pool with the best swimmers in the world and had very successful careers scoreing points at NCAAs several times.

I guess my point is that I agree with outside smoke that attitide is completely up to the swimmer. However, UT is one of a few teams with the culture and competition to push the hard workers up and the others out.

Hey everyone....as a former swimmer of this great university and former teammate of Jay Holmes...What a wonderful person and coach he is. The problem with the men's program is recruting. Period. And the problem with recruting is that Mr. Byrne has dropped the men's swimming teams at Nebraska and Oregon...and tried to drop it here already before Jay became HC. Fact. Mr. Byrne needs to publicly announce on the Website that men's swimming has his full support and the athletic dept. and University's full support....it's obvious all the other schools are using Mr. Brynes past against A&M as a recruting tool. And it is working to the hilt.
Set the record Straight Mr. A. D. Stand Behind mens swimming Publicly.

Kordell Reid

Hey everyone....as a former swimmer of this great university and former teammate of Jay Holmes...What a wonderful person and coach he is. The problem with the men's program is recruting. Period. And the problem with recruting is that Mr. Byrne has dropped the men's swimming teams at Nebraska and Oregon...and tried to drop it here already before Jay became HC. Fact. Mr. Byrne needs to publicly announce on the Website that men's swimming has his full support and the athletic dept. and University's full support....it's obvious all the other schools are using Mr. Brynes past against A&M as a recruting tool. And it is working to the hilt.
Set the record Straight Mr. A. D. Stand Behind mens swimming Publicly.

Kordell Reid

Mr. Reid,

It's good to see someone who knows Jay personally on here defending him as a coach, and as a person. However, I would like to know more about your claim that Mr. Byrne tried to drop the men's swimming program here once before. As an athlete who was here during the transition phase and for the past 4 years, it is my understanding that dropping the program was never Mr. Byrne's intention. While there may have been some uncertainty resulting from the changeover, it has always been my belief--according to what we have been told--that Mr. Byrne has always fully supported the program and has never had any intention of cutting either team. Because we have access to such great facilities here at A&M, it would be a waste to rent the pool and not have both programs working to be the best.

I would also like to throw in my two cents and say that if any coaching pair has the potential to bring this program to the next level, it is Jay and Doug. Whoever suggested a coaching change earlier in this post is uninformed and has obviously never seen the way those two complement each other on deck. Doug is an incredible sprint coach and what can I say other than Jay Holmes is Aggie Men's swimming (those of you who know him understand what I mean by that). The future is bright for this program.

I don't know Holmes as well as the previous two posters. And I don't know Byrne at all. I do know Byrne gave Holmes a 1 year contract initially after Nash was fired. That single action was a huge blow to Holmes' recruiting effort that year. No talented boy wanted to swim for A&M if they didn't know their coach would be there the next year.

My opinion, and that's all it is, was that Byrne didn't have a short list of coaches to choose from. He has always said he has a list of coaches he'd call if he needed one. But since he had just come from Nebraska where he cut men's swimming he was out of touch with the coaching community. So he promoted Jay without really thinking about the impact of a one year contract. It was a terrible injustice to Jay. He has spent the last four years digging out of that hole. He is doing a great job but still hasn't been able to get the 4,5, or 6 star (swimming world magazine ranking) USA swimmer to come to A&M.