There MUST be more kids that want to walk on to a&m that are pretty decent out of HS and have good upside. The depth will never be there without these kids...
We had those kids just a few years ago (3-8 yrs ago??) and they seemed to drop LOADS of time.
During the Mel and Jay and the early Jay and Doug days the B and C freestyle relays would NEVER get beat in dual meets / invites etc, now our B and C relays are VERY weak comparitively.

Flat out we need more talented walkons and more swimmers on this team. Find those walkon diamonds in the rough that turn into great swimmers!

[This message has been edited by Aggie Athlete Involved (edited 12/5/2008 2:54p).]

texagg09 - Why shouldn't Byrne do something special for one sport at any one point in time? No individual sport has the same needs all of the time. Why should we favor soccer and build a stadium for them? We did it because they needed it. Why do we bid to host NCAAs in any particular sport? Because we want the attention and prestige.

Hosting an event like I suggested is way more than a Holmes/Bultman decision. It could easily cost > $100K to run an event like that. Byrne will absolutely have to approve and fund it.

As for swim meets in Austin - I'm not talking about the high school state championships. I'm talking about age group swimming. The state of Texas doesn't stop A&M from doing that. I was told by one of the Aggie Swim Club coaches that the Rec Center is allowed to host only three meets a year. She was frustrated that kids get so little exposure to the facility.

The TSC (Austin) hosts a USA Swimming age group meet almost every month. Look at the calendar at www.stswim.org (the South Texas site). We can't change the UIL stuff. A&M seems to host the Aggieland Invitational (high school), one Sectionals, and maybe one other non-NCAA meet per year.

As for scholarships - I don't know how we allocate them to ANY of the swimmers. We know that fast kids like Casey Strange walked on. But don't ask me to believe a kid from Eastern Europe will come to A&M without close to a full scholarship.

I have lots of confidence in Jay and Doug. I just don't think Texas A&M is doing everything it can to help Jay and Doug.

Allowing USS meets to be held at the rec gets back to the old issue of it being owned by the rec center, not the athletic dept. Every user including the varsity swim team, Aggie Swim Club, club water polo team, etc. has some sort of agreement that allows for a certain usage. I forget the details, but I know during my time on the water polo team we were allowed a certain number of hours per week for practice plus 1(?) tournament per semester. When we wanted to add practice time we had to pay for extra pool time. Also, when we wanted to have single games, the rec told us we had to do them within our alotted time, so we held them in place of thursday practice. Anyway, the point is that the rec, not the athletic dept, creates the restrictions of holding meets there for all groups including USS.

H2O - I know (the rec center issue). But couldn't Byrne change that if he REALLY WANTED to?

No, he can't. The athletic department and the swim teams are getting so badly screwed on the contract with the rec, that the athletic department LOSES money for almost every meet they host, and its cheaper for the teams to travel than it is to host meets at home. BIG problem, past, present, and future. Its so expensive to host meets at the rec, whether its high school, club, or NCAA, which is the sole reason there are usually only 3 big meets a year (one of each usually)

Spice, that event you are talking about would be called Aggie Swim Camp (on a smaller scale) and the idea would still have to come from within the program. Byrne is not going to randomly think one day "Hmmm, you know what would be a great idea? A swimming conference! Let's do that!" Ya right. Yes, he would approve it, and possibly help fund it, but it wont start from him.

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don't ask me to believe a kid from Eastern Europe will come to A&M without close to a full scholarship.

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Well you should think about believing it, because based on a previous post, you named 8 foreign swimmers, and if you do the math, that would be 8 full rides (according to your assumption about foreign athletes), which would be more than the 7.9 that Swimming has (assuming diving is only using 2, which this year, I doubt). It will take a fair amount of money to lure a foreign athlete to A&M, but it doesnt always mean a full ride. Most of the time I would be willing to bet that 75% would suffice, which leaves money to spread around (not a lot, but more than you are assuming).

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I have lots of confidence in Jay and Doug. I just don't think Texas A&M is doing everything it can to help Jay and Doug.

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I'm not buying. All of the problems you are listing; recruiting (in-state, American, foreign), scholarship allocation, training tactics, etc. stem directly from the coaches, not A&M and the Athletic Dept.

AAI - Im not saying I disagree entirely with you about the roster size, but think about it this way:

1. C relays dont score points at dual meets
2. We've already agreed that the men care very little about how fast they swim at dual meets, but rather just the opportunity to race (which even a slow C relay provides)
3. The Conference scoring team consists of 18 total slots (2 of which are used by the 4 divers, since I diver is worth 1/2 a spot), so a 20 man squad will still leave 4 guys on the 'B' team at conference. I believe the 'B' team can have a max of 6 slots, so a squad of over 22 guys would leave men at home, not allowing them to travel to the conference meet.
4.

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Find those walkon diamonds in the rough that turn into great swimmers!

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I DO very much agree with this statement, since the coaches have proven their ability to develop swimmers.

Texagg09 - any idea how long the current contract with the rec will last? any chance it will expire anytime soon, and the Athletic Dept can negotiate a better one that doesnt screw the teams over?

Negative BigPapa. all I know is that the Athletic Dept (INCLUDING Bill Byrne) is looking into the deal. Not sure if that means restructuring a contract, or what, but they definitely know that there is a problem there, and are doing everything they can to fix it. They are also working on getting to the bottom of the recent bulkhead issues, another problem the are very aware of, and are also VERY intent on fixing.

Stop making assumptions about scholarship allocation that lie nowhere in reality. Jay has been handling scholarships for 20+ years, I think he has a pretty good idea what he's doing. It's naive to assume that every foreign swimmer is treated the same just because they are foreign. Just like in-state vs. out-of-state kids, the family/personal situation of every foreign swimmer is different. They are all foreign, but they aren't all the same.

I'm getting into this conversation late, so that's the only topic I'll touch on for now.

"We spend almost $650,000 each year in rent so our men's and women's swimming and diving teams can train and compete at the Rec Center Natatorium, as well as almost $50,000 more for hosting meets."

-from Bill Byrne's Wednesday Weekly 11/26/08

I did NOT say all of the foreign guys had a full scholarship. I counted them and guessed that they use more than 1/2 per swimmer but obviously not all 7.9. I hope you agree that it is likely that the foreign kids use more scholarship money per swimmer than the Texas kids.

I know all about the swim camps. My boys have been six times since they were 12 yrs old. My 16 yr. old is already registered for the summer's 2nd session. I bet they make a fair amount of money at $500+ per kid. But a lot of fast kids, older kids don't go to these. Swim meets attract a wider group of kids - and it is racing. I think for decades kids go to Austin, swim in the TSC, and know that champions swim there.

My coaches conference idea is to strengthen the link between A&M and the coaches in the region. If a coach believes in A&M - they will recommend us to their swimmers. Football coaches "work the high schools" to build a rapport with the coaches. Sherman supposedly sends an email/fax to every coach in Texas every week. Yes BigPapa - Jay/Steve would have to want this and Byrne would have to pay for it.

Maybe this is a stupid idea. But I think it is an example of something unusual we could do to gain additional attention and credibility. Byrne hates to lose to Texas. We beat their girls twice now - I think he'd want to do everything we can to stay on top. And help the men take a step up for long term improvement.

$650K seems like a hell of a lot to pay for rent for the pool. $13K per week.

Of course that's a heck of a lot to pay for the pool! Texagg said it earlier, THAT is the reason we don't host more meets at the rec. Cuz it costs too stinkin much to do it.

spice- I think it is a great idea that could possibly dispel any stereotypes high school coaches and their swimmers have of the program.

quote:

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"We spend almost $650,000 each year in rent so our men's and women's swimming and diving teams can train and compete at the Rec Center Natatorium, as well as almost $50,000 more for hosting meets."

-from Bill Byrne's Wednesday Weekly 11/26/08

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So not only does the Rec Center screw up setting the bulk head but they also gouge A&M's swimming programs...

Who oversees the Rec Center?



[This message has been edited by bogustrumper (edited 12/10/2008 11:19a).]

Bogustrumper - I think A&M needs to focus on both the high school and club coaches. You may already be thinking that way. The best swimmers in Texas are closest to their club coaches since most HS coaches are crap.

Those of you close to high school swimming know about TISCA (Texas Interscholastic Swimming Coaches Association). Go to their website (www.tisca.org) and guess whose name is front and center? Kim Brackin.

a lot of the club coaches are high school coaches as well over here but the one high school who doesn't have any club coaches doesn't really know what they are doing

I'm not sure what all the rules are but I know that our high school team has to have at least one school district employee on the deck. The rest of the coaches are either local club coaches or volunteers (five coaches total). At the state championship meet only two coaches were allowed to be with the team on deck.

Other than the one example I noted most of the local high school teams are set up like this.

Great example with Brackin....comes down to relationships in most cases because it is all about connecting people

Bogus - where do you live?

Here in Texas I believe all coaches must also be teachers. My son's HS coach is a special ed teacher. At least she was a swimmer in college although I don't think she has ever been trained to be a coach.

One of the ongoing challenges for high school swimmers in Texas is to deal with two coaches. Some high schools have a "don't care" attitude about their club swimmers and practice. Westlake high for example doesn't require their club swimmers to go to HS practice. That works well for kids that used to swim for Randy Reese at TXLA - because Randy hated high school swimming. If you were in Randy's training group you were expected to make 9 practices a week. Hard to do if your high school required you to go to practice.

Florida

http://ntswim.org/meetinfo/2009/090402_info_legends_of_texas_swim_clinic.pdf


Not with the high schools but Coach Bultman must of heard you...


[This message has been edited by bogustrumper (edited 12/12/2008 12:38p).]

Good find! Maybe Bultman wanted to host it at A&M but the Rec Center was too expensive!