I heard the men's team didn't take a winter training trip this year. I thought that happened every year. What happened?

I know the women are in Miami.

Apparently someone thought they could 'float through practice' in College Station just as easy as they could somewhere else.

i dunno... let's ask stanford, florida, michigan, texas, cal, auburn, tennessee and arizona where they went this year to find out what training trip destination makes a team the best.

[This message has been edited by agswim15 (edited 1/26/2009 8:16a).]

Michigan is in Key Largo...

Mike Bottom ...The Race Club ...Key Largo

ok wow you found one team i mentioned that went somewhere with their new coach.

you get the idea.

no ...he has obvious connections down there so there is no wow involved

The above teams also rarely have issues recruiting...IMO having a training trip is one thing A&M offers a kid that those traditional swimming powers don't...Does it make them a better swimmer? No. Is it a nice perk? Yes. A&M needs every advantage over those schools in recruiting that it can get.

I think it is a good recruiting tool plus something to look forward to after working as hard as they do...not that they get a break or anything on these trips

Florida has a lot of places where this can be done.

My son - who swims for a non-elite Div 1 team - is on such a trip now. They train two-a-days, and race a local university. Lots of team comraderie and bonding combined with heavy duty training. Definitely more fun than training on an empty campus during the holidays.

[This message has been edited by agswim15 (edited 1/26/2009 8:19a).]

Not willing to say on this board....

His son swims at TCU, a very respectable program.

[This message has been edited by outside smoke (edited 1/8/2009 9:33p).]

[This message has been edited by outside smoke (edited 1/8/2009 9:33p).]

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due to the fact that they are hosting NCAAs that they could not go for some reason

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this is not true at all, otherwise the women (who also happen to be hosting NCs), would not have gone to Miami

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They train two-a-days, and race a local university. Lots of team comraderie and bonding combined with heavy duty training.

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are you under the impression that "team comraderie and bonding" can only be accomplished at a training sight other than the University Campus? I think that MUCH more comraderie and bonding occurs in an empty campus during the holidays.

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i dunno... let's ask stanford, florida, michigan, texas, cal, auburn, tennessee and arizona where they went this year to find out what training trip destination makes a team the best.

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VERY well said

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Definitely more fun than training on an empty campus during the holidays.

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That statement shows complete ignorance. What is the entire point of Holiday Training? to have a lot of fun while you dont have to worry about school? NO! TO GET WORK DONE! the point is to get more/harder work done than a team can do during the school year. Without school as a distraction, teams should be working MUCH harder than they have all year. A&M has arguably the nicest facility in the nation, anything they could ever want/need for a weight room, and every other type of equipment/amenities they would ever want to use, entirely at their disposal. They have pool space at one of the best pools in the country whenever they want it. Say they had chosen to travel somewhere in Florida, where they could have swam in the early morning hours, or maybe the late evening, in a pool they had to share time with another University also on their training trip. Then look at the weather. Chances are good that, in Florida, the team would be swimming outside. The weather in Florida this time of year is completely unpredictable. Hot or cold? rainy or dry? Lightning/Thunder? What kind of weight facilities? Drylands? Hotel rooms with guys sharing beds with each other, or sleeping on the floor? spending a full day on travel, when that day could be used to train? or sacrificing the quality of training on that day, should they decide to squeeze in a workout.

My point is, that ya, its nice to have fun while youre training over the holidays. But that is not what Christmas training is for. By staying in College Station, the men have taken control of ALL of the variables involved in training. They have created an optimal environment to train in, and whether or not anyone thinks they are "floating thru practices" I'm sure they are making the most of it.

LOB - All that being said, I do not disagree with your point about using training trip as a recruiting tool. Training in tropical destinations is definitely a very good tool to use in recruiting. But look at the history. The men went to Barbados last year, stayed on the beach in San Diego the 2 years prior, went to Hawaii and Florida the years before that. There is no reason to think that the men will continue to stay in College Station every year for Holiday training. I think it would be suicidal for recruiting to do so. My guess is that the coaches felt that this year, this team needed to sacrifice the amount of fun involved in traveling for break, to get in the extra/better quality work by staying here, in order to reach their goals, and the expectations set of them. I commend them for that.

hey texagg,
you like to use a lot of duplicate words/terminology to emphasize your point/statement and to cover all the bases/grounds don't you? Sounds like you might have some sweet insider information for us. What phase/cycle of training is the men's team in? I heard, from a very reliable source might I add, that most of the men's team has switched to a sprint/anaerobic base. Do you know the purpose of that change/switch? Also, please be advised that in an online community, ALL CAPS is not seen as a sign of emphasis but rather hostility and anger. It means you are shouting.

So no one, including those that seem to have access to the men's program, know why they didn't take a training trip?

Did the coaches decide, as Texagg09 suggests, decide to control the environment, by keeping the men in CS?

Texagg is correct in that assumption.

So does anyone know how the training is going? Are the guys doing well?

outside smoke - interpret my post however you want, but I got my point across in exactly the way i wanted to

AWESOME.

[This message has been edited by agswim15 (edited 1/26/2009 8:16a).]

Whew! What a break it has been for me! I just returned earlier this week from my 2 week long vacation at a very tropical location. It was so much FUN! My hotel was right on the beach, I got to go surfing every day, and walk around the city and along the beach in the evening. All that surfing and walking sure took it out of me though. At night I would go hang out at the bars until the early hours of the morning, enjoying the change of scenery from my usual spots at home. I was so exhausted when I finally climbed into my bed each night, and it was so difficult to force myself to wake up at a semi decent hour in the late morning (or early afternoon in some cases), and when I did, I didnt have much energy, or the desire for that matter, to do much of anything. You can sure bet that I took advantage of being away from home with every opportunity I could find. The beach, the bars, the waves, the ladies. It really made me remember what it was like to be a college kid again. Man, what a trip that was. So much fun, I'm just glad I was there purely for pleasure, and not to get any work done. I would imagine it would be very easy to get distracted trying to actually accomplish anything serious (training wise) while being in such an exotic location...

Yes, many teams take travel trips.
Yes, it is a good recruiting tool
Yes, it is nice to get a break from the normal everyday grind of training
Yes, a change of scenery is nice

Bottom line is that, no matter how you shake it, the quality of training that a team is capable of is much better at their home facility (assuming the facilities are top notch of course, as is such with the elite programs)

Agswim15 - sounds to me like texagg09 might be, a little "closer to the team" than your source, or have a source of his own that is closer...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ONLY ONE PERSON I KNOW MAKES ME LAUGH LIKE THAT!

Glad I could provide you with some amusement. If I might ask, what part of my post amused you the most?

I guess I kinda believe the whole deal about controlling the environment, but I think you can get more effort out of the swimmers if you take them somewhere else.
The swimming season is a long one, and keeping their heads in the game is really important, especially during holiday training.

I know Michigan went to Australia a few years ago. How's that for a controlled environment?

how about controlling costs? Not every team can afford to go to australia. In my opinion, if a swimmer needs to get away to be able to train better and keep his head in the game, they suffer from a condition called mental fragility. Mental fragility can often present with symptoms of whining, bad attitude, laziness, excuse making and can dramatically reduce the level of discipline employed by said swimmer.

BigPapaB--I mostly enjoyed your biting sarcasm and the blunt nature in which you present information. Compared to some of the other member's comments, yours seem rather comical. A breath of fresh air amidst the doom and gloom that surrounds the others.

[This message has been edited by outside smoke (edited 1/9/2009 1:16p).]

BigPapaB -- You make valid points at the end of your post but could you enlighten me (and maybe others) as to the reason for the brief story? I fail to understand the purpose it serves or how it relates to the thread.

Does anyone really care where a bunch of guys in speedos train over the holiday break?

Does anyone really care where a bunch of guys in speedos train over the holiday break?

gobluwolverine- I totally agree. You can always get more out of a team when they're on a travel trip. I think they could've really used the change of scenery and I'll bet that Atkinson kid would've really flourished in the sunshine & tropical climate.

LOB- I think bigPappaB is trying to say that the team would just find too many distractions on a trip. I disagree completely. These guys know they need to go to bed and eat right every day; why should a training trip make a difference? I seriously doubt any of them would risk a trip to the bars on a training trip.

Does anyone know any good brownie recepies?

I think it is interesting the difference of opinion here. Some time ago someone here argued why it might be a good thing to have a small roster like we have now. Tight team chemistry, etc.

During the holidays - in CS the coaches control the workouts. The kids then go to their dorms, apartments, whatever. They are on their own.

On a trip, they go to practice, but stay in close proximity to each other in a hotel, maybe for a week. They eat together, room together, hang out together.

Which method produces better overall team performance?

So I suppose we just don't know until Big12s how this year's approach worked. Or when the roster for 2009 is announced, maybe next fall. Then we will see how recruiting went.

Spice - since I am one of those people who have argued in support of the smaller roster, and using it to build team chemistry, I will do my best to explain myself as to why I disagree with your theory about training trips. It is difficult to put thoughts into words, but here goes:

In another city, guys can go off on their own or in smaller groups, exploring the town or the beach. there are various means of entertainment in other cities (hence the "change of scenery" argument). but in College Station, how much entertainment can one individual, or a small group of people find when there is absolutely no one in the city. with no other non-swimmer friends to hang out with, and with little else to do out of the ordinary, the team will naturally bond together.

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The kids then go to their dorms, apartments, whatever. They are on their own.

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you make it sound as tho each guy on the team lives in a one room apartment, with no roommates, and they all live 20 minutes away from each other. I'd be willing to bet that, like most swim teams, a good portion of the guys all live together, whether they are roommates, or just live in the same apartment complex. Heck, in a town like CS, they could live in different complexes and still live walking distance from each other. Yes life in an empty town over the break is not exactly ideal for keeping a person entertained, so the guys use that strong bond they have as a team, as friends, and as a family, to keep themselves happy in a deserted town. Can you honestly tell me that this does not strengthen the team's chemistry? These guys could entertain themselves each individually somewhere else, but in a deserted town it behooves them to stick together. Ya there is not a whole lot to do in CS, but it sure helps to do those little things as a group with your closest friends

I also agree with outside smoke (consequently disagreeing with LeverFulcrumPivot) on the mental aspect of training elsewhere for the holidays. The stronger mental swimmers do not need that "break" of traveling somewhere else, and have no problem staying where they know they will get the best work done. If a team absolutely NEEDS to travel in order to give their best effort, what does that say about the teams mentality? How will they hold up at the end of the season when they are tested to the extreme? It shows the strength of a team when they can put forth their best efforts without having the luxury of that "mental break" provided by an out of town training trip.

I know the Texas Women took their training trip to the US Olympic Training Facility in Colorado Springs. Do you think that is a "mental break"? I would be willing to bet that those girls would rather have stayed in Austin, and would've worked just as hard. And that is no slouch program either. And let's not forget the various other elite programs that dont travel (leaving recruiting out of the equation for this portion of discussion, as I have already voiced my views on that part). I guarantee those teams are giving their best efforts, even though they are still training in the same place they have all year. That's what makes them the best.

Ok guys, we have to understand here that swimming is different from many sports. There are very few people in existence that are mentally strong enough to withstand an entire season without some sort of change to breathe life into them. The fact is that if you just say "screw it" to those who aren't mentally strong enough to torture themselves for so much time, then you're saying "screw it" to 90% of our team. Anyone who's ever traveled as an athlete know that it's a different feeling training elsewhere. There's a feeling of wanting to represent your team well, and show them what "(INSERT TEAM NAME HERE)" is all about. I'm guessing people who talk about needing the guys to be rocks in their heads probably never swam, or swam back when 2000 yards was a big-time practice.

Furthermore, I assure you that the guys are not hanging out with only their teammates, and are not just sitting in the dorms lifting weights and doing drylands. They've been having their share of fun, unfortunately it's not the kind of fun that you want your athletes to be having during winter training.

Although on the other hand, those in the know might be aware that a couple of the guys were sent home from the Barbados early for partying.

I think that in general, you're better off being elsewhere, because it's easy to get rid of the ones who want to party and keep them from sucking their teammates into it. At least there's the threat when you're somewhere else. In CS they feel too comfortable just partying and the like.

Besides, I've never before heard someone try to claim that athletes become stronger mentally by staying at home in the comfort of their own facilities.

Arizona won two national titles last year by getting the athletes they had to buy into the program and the fact that they were going to be the best, no matter where they trained. If A&M wants to be a consistent top 10, we have no need for the "athletes" who aren't mentally strong enough to handle the "long season" (whaaa).

You can't build a top ten program with children who can't handle not getting a vacation. If you can't train well in CS with Netum Steed and the Rec center, you can't train well anywhere. Stop babying these adults (we still consider 18 year old's adults in this country right?) and help the few who are left appreciate the opportunity they have. They have access to premiere facilities, coaches, and support staff. If you can't be a success swimming for Jay Holmes and Doug Boyd (not to mention Paul Sealey, the best strength coach in the country), you aren't going to be a success anywhere. Stop pretending to be an athlete and move on. A&M is better off with 11 men working towards one goal than 11 men and 7 or 8 boys who need a mental break. Let's get real here guys, this is Division 1 athletics. Is Arizona taking a mental break right now? What about Texas?

Ozzie