I think it would be incorrect to say either team doesn't care about Big 12's. They may care MORE about NC's but for many folks Big 12's is where they hit their qualifiers and on the women's side there has been a title within reach the last four years too. I can guarantee they care about that.

I'm not saying missing this specific meet is a chemistry destroyer. I'm just saying it's not good to be repetitously missing important meets or to be gone for huge swaths of time when everyone else is there working hard as a group. Deep down, I don't think its a huge deal to most but I'm betting it certainly doesn't go unnoticed either.

I think we can agree on your last sentence.

And to clarify on what I meant, I wasn't implying that Big 12's weren't a big deal. Obviously they use those to qualify for NCAA's, and placing well at Big 12's in itself is a really exciting thing and a big deal. I was referring to the Auburn meet, and that missing it wasn't on the same level as missing the championship meets at the end of the season.

This is a hot subject. I do not want to argue on the expense of one person..however, that is what got this all started.

I am sure her missing MORE than 3 weeks (it is at least a month if not more) is all the other swimmers and divers think about, but it does probably change how they feel about her commitment to this team.

The arrangements made under the former diving coach can no longer be the standard for this team, a new coach = new rules. I would think that she would WANT to come back to use this winter training time to transition to a new coach while the only focus is training and not competitions and school.

I agree that all the divers look like they are improving and I am excited to see them all compete at the Conference meet. When do they compete the platform event? Do we have any current divers who do this??

gobluwolverine - How can you say that ALL they care about is NCAAs? Yes, I know these young women want to do the best they can at the national championships, but I can assure you that they want to be Conference Champs! And I am sure they do care about a diver in this case, because not only is she going to score points for this team, but also is getting PAID out of scholarships that they could be using to recruit someone else that would want to actually be here or is here already.

This isn't swimmers vs. divers, they all score points for their team and all set high goals for themselves individually and as a team. I am sure Jaele wants to do well individually, but college athletics in this case is a TEAM sport.

Lookoutbelow - I am glad to hear that they have strong character and will look past this..too many times things like this can cause conflicts between tight knit teams. I am assured once again that this character comes from strong leadership from these coaches and team captains.

This is getting interesting and please know that I am not intending to hurt anyone or disrespect the coaching or athletes. All of these athletes are tremendous individuals and work extremely hard to achieve what they have.

Janie Potvin dives tower and has the talent to be an NCAA scorer at it. Haley Haynes is an excellent tower diver and is capable of being a very high finisher in the event at Big 12's as well. They do tower at Big 12's and will do it at Zones and NCAA's provided they qualify.

...and I agree with this 110%: 'I am not intending to hurt anyone or disrespect the coaching or athletes. All of these athletes are tremendous individuals and work extremely hard to achieve what they have.'

All of us that usually post on here want what's best for the team and are behind ALL of them all the way.

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 1/10/2010 8:56p).]

LOB - I wasn't saying Auburn was going to destroy this team and their mental toughness. I think missing Conference last year, then Auburn, and LSU is just probably making some question her commitment to the team.

Does Jaele not dive platform? Having 2 on platform that are capable of diving a high level should help score points to maybe clinch a Big 12 title? I do remember seeing Haynes' name on the record board, however did not know if she was a senior last year or not.

I just hope all of this doesn't cause animosity between these girls. I am sure it is hurting the divers far more than the swimmers. Does anyone know if she is close friends with anyone on the team? Does she live by herself? I am starting to think like a mother and worry about when she returns (if there are any hard feelings) that she might feel like a black sheep or not have the same support as others from her teammates.

Whats done is done though. I am sure this team will do great things.

[This message has been edited by swimmingmom (edited 1/10/2010 9:13p).]

Never intended to indicate that it was swimmers vs. divers, or that the swimmers didn't GARA about the divers as people or teammates, all I was saying was that I don't think it's accurate to say that a diver being gone affects the swimmers' mental state in their training. It would affect the other divers, sure, but as long as she shows up at the meets doing her best diving, it's probably ok with them that she's gone. This would then go back to the original argument, which should be less contentious, which is whether or not her performance will be better having stayed here or gone home.

]Of course, it could piss off the other divers plenty, but based on results, they seem to be getting through it ok. If anything, they're getting more attention with her gone. From what I've observed, the divers are a pretty close-knit group and would get over it.

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gobluwolverine - How can you say that ALL they care about is NCAAs?

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I didn't. That's just what we've been told repeatedly by Anonymiss and his cronies. I totally disagree, and think that these in-season meets are VERY important, to keep everyone focused on the goal, which is to be the best racer. In many other arguments, though, it's been invoked that nothing before NCAA's mean anything.

Anyone know the reasoning why we don't see more platform diving at duals/invites?? It's great to watch.

Wow! Not that I would touch this argument anymore with a 10 foot pole, but I will add that Jaele has been gone 3 weeks this weekend. Not sure how relevant that is...

In my never-ending quest to learn more about diving, on the platform, how do they decide which platforms to use? Why do they even have a 1-meter if nobody ever uses it? And are the DD's that much higher off of the higher boards? At NCAA's last year, I only remember seeing anyone go off the 10m...

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 1/10/2010 9:14p).]

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Does Jaele not dive platform? Having 2 on platform that are capable of diving a high level should help score points to maybe clinch a Big 12 title? I do remember seeing Haynes' name on the record board, however did not know if she was a senior last year or not.

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My guess is it has to do with how divers are counted towards roster limits. They each only dive 2 disciplines, that way they can count all 3 of them as 1 roster spot at meets with roster limits. Of course, we didn't use up all of our roster spots at NCAA's, so I'm probably wrong.

I'm sure she's capable, it's hard to be a D-1 diver anymore without being able to dive platform.

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All of us that usually post on here want what's best for the team and are behind ALL of them all the way.

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Not all of us! Haven't you heard? My sole purpose is the destruction of the M&W S&D teams through my internet postings on message boards that I'm sure they've been told to stay off of. That's what the little maroon circle under my username means. (Take note of winky face and obvious sarcasm.)

I just realized that if all of us are getting into this heated of an argument over this subject and aren't even on the team.... I can only imagine the discussions that have taken place amongst the current team members.... hmmm....

Answering some questions:

1) No, Jaele does not dive platform. However she is incredibly talented on the springboards and is fully capable of being an NCAA scorer on both boards.

2) Haynes is a senior this year; her and Potvin have the talent to score VERY well on tower at Big 12's

3) I don't think this will cause much, if any, animosity on the team; any group strong-willed enough to do what they've done the past few years won't even recognize these opinions on their radar; even if it did/does, the girls have the character to see past it

4) Just a wild guess, but I think you don't see as much tower diving throughout the season in dual meets because of the beating the body takes in doing it; most invites that I know of do contest the tower; I agree it's great to watch

5) The one-meter platform is used for coaching and training, particularly when trying new manuevers out; the lower you start in case of a screw-up, the less painful it is when you hit the water -- even a blown dive from the 3-meter doesn't feel good

6) The DD's usually get higher the higher you go because you are able to fit more manuevers in the more space between you and the water; that said there are a few 10-meter dives you can do on the 5 that are higher DD because you try to fit the same maneuvers into a smaller space

7) A diver can dive three disciplines; there are some -- like Jaele and Lorena Lujan -- that only dive springboard however; it just depends on the person. Blastoff is correct in that sometimes they may only dive two events because of roster size limits; it's not because they aren't capable of doing all three; There are many divers across the country that only dive springboard like Jaele and Lorena

8) swimmom -- I don't think this is a heated debate...just a good discussion about a situation on a team we follow -- no different than anything on any of the other boards on this website; I'm sure the team has dealt with far worse issues than this and this won't be more than a speed bump (if that)

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 1/11/2010 12:00a).]

AGBlastoff - I took your lead and let the curiosity get the cat. I talked to my daughter (who is friends with Jaele on the facebook) and just asked her what her feelings were about the situation. She didn't really say much at all because I don't think she knows her that well, she was a little disappointed when she looked at Jaele's facebook page and it said something about being sunburned from the beach...

Oh well.. it is what it is.

Thanks LOB for the answers to a lot of our questions!

Agblastoff - the platforms shorter than 10M are used as a progression in training. The shorter platforms are also competed on in age group meets. The DD is lower at lower heights.

Working your way up to 10M is non-trivial. I have seen the 1M platform used initially to get used to a fixed platform. Then the 3M platform. They'll dive 5M and 7.5M as they work up to 10M. In a meet they may dive some at various heights depending on their ability and comfort level at the time.

How do I know this? My daughter is a high school diver that trains with TXLA.