quote:

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yes I do know this for a fact

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Just an FYI, your "source" doesn't know me all that well, and doesn't know what I do/don't have personal experience with.

The personal experience that people are citing does not describe the situation. Certain people who disagree with me, I wouldn't have accused them of arguing with me just to prove me wrong. Considering who the posters are, however, it's clear what they're doing. I could come on here and say "I think the Aggie men will place 6th at National Championships," which would obviously be a great finish for them, and they'd still tell me I was saying it to try and put the men's program down.

Regardless of what my personal experience is or is not, the point is that this is not something I'm making up. The people on this message board are among the few in the world who seem to disagree with whether it's a problem or not. At the elite level of international swimming (aka people who compete for World Championships and Olympic Championships), it's a definite issue. Because some swimmer from Mexico who would've placed 40th at the Olympics got left out because of politics (although, peoples' "personal experience" might affect their view of the reasoning behind people being left home) has nothing to do with whether American swimmers are put at a disadvantage in winning medals versus swimmers in certain other countries where the qualifying is not as heated.

And I didn't call anybody a liar. All I did was imply that they might have heard biased stories, or that they're bringing in examples that aren't pertinent to the discussion just to try and show that they know more than everyone else, and to try to make me wrong. It gets old. I'm aware that 80% of the people who post about swimming on this board know a Mexican swimmer who had a shot at going to the Olympics. There's no arguing that. That doesn't mean that it's just as tough for Mexican swimmers to qualify for the Olympics as it is Americans, which is what they're implying. All I told them is that if a swimmer was truly an elite swimmer who would contend at the Olympics, no amount of politics would keep them off of the team. They're trying to compare the Mexican swimmers to American Olympians, which is not reasonable at all. I don't doubt that when a team gets to send 1 swimmer in an event, and that swimmer is unlikely to get out of heats, politics plays a role. Coaches' pets, who puts the best face on for the country, etc. But those swimmers still have no relevance to the group that we're talking about. THAT is the part that I'm calling bull on.

[This message has been edited by gobluwolverine (edited 2/1/2010 3:36p).]

EDIT: double post, oops!

[This message has been edited by texagg09 (edited 2/1/2010 4:38p).]

I know exactly who you are, just like you know exactly know who I am. and I could post your name on here if I really wanted to, but I'm not like that.

I said everyone was misunderstanding the points being made. Everyone was arguing different things, your/myself included.

But I'm done with this now. Gig 'em Ags, BTHO t.u on friday!! Whoop!

Fair enough. Funny thing is I'm sure we'd all get along in real life. Ohhh texags.

Lord, GoBlu you are so DAMN tiresome. Obviously your some ex-swimmer/coach, BUT you were SIMPLY wrong with your comment on A/B cuts for ALL countries. It has NOTHING to do with Mexican kids getting screwed. It was a response to your incorrect assumption that all you have to do is make a B cut if your the fastest in the country. That is DEAD wrong. Each country can do as they please. I pointed it out so people know the truth.

Now shut the hell up and admit you had wrong information and stop attacking anyone who conflicts your stupid liberal ass "I am always right cause I am a frigging age-group coach/disgruntled ex-athlete/"fan" of A&M. Or whatever the hell you are. I can rest assured that if people like you wernt on these boards? Then "people like us" wouldnt be here either.

You really chap my damn hide.

I'm glad :-).

But if you have a B cut and are the only one in your country with a B cut, they have to send you. Or not send anyone at all, which I guess is an option.

Said with a smile :-) anomymiss is there not some way we can come to a truce on this? I'm sure that everyone is as tired of our bickering as we are of doing it.

I think I'm gonna throw up if you two start getting along.

Think I might throw up either way...

Save your barf bags fella's.

K well, then that's on you. I can't help it if you're going to hold a grudge.

With you B.

A grudge? You think everything on here is about you?

DROP IT DUDE!

Listen to what agg09 said. You have a VERY annoying way about you. It's a FORUM....if you give misinfo or state an opinion, PREPARE that others just might not agree with you?

Grow up. move on!

Who's with me?

[This message has been edited by Anonymiss (edited 2/1/2010 9:10p).]

Aaaaaannnd cue rally cry!


*cricket chirping*




Well 3 hours later I guess not Miss. Move on kids, move on.

re blu's...if you have a B cut and are the only one in your country with a B cut, they have to send you. Or not send anyone at all, which I guess is an option...

...check out Athens time trials results for Marianne Limpert (double medal winner at previous Olympics)and Liz Warden - both hit the wall 1st in their events with a B cut, but didn't make the team...

re blu's: ...Just an FYI, they can get their FINA A cuts any time they want, not just at the trials...

...check out "IN THE MATTER OF SDRCC/CRDSC 04.0020 (ORDINARY DIVISION)Between KURTIS MacGILLIVARY, Claimant,And SWIMMING/NATATION CANADA (SNC)Respondent
ARBITRATOR: ED RATUSHNY Q.C.
July 18,2004... he had the Fina A by a mile (km?)in a previous meet, at trials he hit the wall 1st by a mile...but didn't make the Athens team. (... he then immigrated to Australia to swim)

Just an FYI...


[This message has been edited by really? (edited 2/8/2010 2:56p).]

Liz Warden DID make the team, actually. She swam the 200 I.M, at least. Don't know if that's the event she won at trials, but I suppose that if she qualifies in multiple events, just like anyone else she can choose not to swim any or all of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_200_metre_individual_medley

I don't have the 2004 Canadian Olympic Trials results in front of me, so can't comment on Limpert's case, but was she the only swimmer to get a B cut in the event that she won in? Because if not, the rule wouldn't apply. Or did they send anyone at all in the event? They only have to take her (or not take anyone) if she was the only swimmer with a B cut. Perhaps they chose the not take anyone option? Again, without having the trials results in front of me hard to say. Do you have a link? It's also possible the rules have changed since then. FINA seems to have taken down their page about qualifying procedures, but here's the wikipedia page, and if they're the same as the rules FINA just posted for the 2011 WC qualifying, then the wikipedia page is accurate for 2008, at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Qualification

Here's the 2011 WC qualifying procedures. It seems to outline pretty clear that a country can't just choose to send a swimmer in an event without a B cut (except for the caveat where the country has no swimmers with cuts, which is a different story). So in both of those cases you listed, there must have been another swimmer in the event with a B cut.

And as to the swimmer getting the A-cut prior to the olympics, also don't know the full situation so it's hard to say, again referencing the FINA qualifying rules for the WC:

quote:

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Qualifying times for the 2011 Worlds must be swum between March 1, 2010 and June 30, 2011.
Qualifying meets will include:
-Continental championships in 2010 & 2011, and
-International and national competitions approved by FINA in advance.

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The qualifying period for the Beijing Olympics began March 15, 2007, so yes, you're right, it's not completely whenever they want, but it's not strictly at the Olympic trials. They have roughly a year and a half prior to hit it.

I will concede that I can't say for a fact if that's how the qualifying was done for the 2004/2008 Olympics, although the wikipedia page seems to indicate it was for 2008, but that's how it will likely be done going forward. Does anyone happen to have a copy of the 2008 qualifying procedures saved so we can see them?

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/23207.asp-2011 WC qualifying procedures.

Different countries can choose their Olympians however they want, but those selections still must meet the FINA guidelines.

Also, wouldn't all of this simply strengthen the original statement? If swimmers from other countries are qualifying for the Olympics without having to even be the best in their country at trials, whereas Americans do, doesn't that mean that Americans have to worry more about tapering for a more competitive Olympic trials, thus giving them a disadvantage at the Olympics?

[This message has been edited by gobluwolverine (edited 2/8/2010 3:12p).]

http://www.swimnews.com/Magazine/2003/2003jun-july.pdf

Found this article from July 2003 that makes it sounds like Kurtis (the A-cut swimmer referenced) already had 1 foot out the door well before the 2004 Canadian Olympic trials. Maybe the administration knew this, and that's why they chose not to take him?

Just out of curiosity, what was the outcome of the case you referenced?