Any Fall Swimming signees?

3,125 Views | 52 Replies | Last: 15 yr ago by proudtoknow
AGBlastoff
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Interesting comments by all. First:

quote:
although we have the longest string of top 20/25 finishes of any team/sport in the country


Is this true?? Impressive if so. I'm surprised there's not other swim programs (like the Michigan Men) who have NEVER been outside of the top 20/25 finishes (unless I misunderstood).

Beyond that, it's a very tricky situation. I think you hit it on the head 09, when you said that some of your best teammates have been foreign, but you wish there'd be more domestic swimmers.

It's kind of a tricky situation. I presume that most of us are adults, and have had some exposure to foreigners by now. The question is more of what would affect a 17-year old who is likely, though not always, from a pretty homogeneous population. I can see that as being, at the very least, intimidating.

That being said, I've heard that a lot of big recruits say that A&M has been their favorite trip. And as many have said, somebody needs to figure out where the disconnect is. Favorite trip. Likely more money than a Texas or Stanford can offer, a very few top 20-type recruits from being a top 5 team, and yet they still can't commit.

I'd like to see A&M try and wrestle the State meet away from Texas every other year or so. With that massive new $30 million dollar mega facility San Antonio is putting in, the Conroe Nat, etc. I see no reason to not start rotating it around to other cities. Seems to be too many great facilities in this state to have it in Austin every year.

Thought: Does recruiting American swimmers have a greater compounding effect? Even though the world is getting better, the US is still far and away the greatest concentration of elite swimming talent, and highschool students in the US hear more about where the Jonathan Edwards' and Gray Umbach's are going to go than about the Henrik Lindau's and Kyle Troskott's.

Of course, that might be balanced out by the fact that the probability of nabbing a Swedish recruit or Canadian recruit increases due to less recruiting competition. Comes down to a numbers game it seems, and we'll have to see how it plays out.

I think once those consistent top 12 finishes start becoming consistent top 8 finishes, there will be a huge snowball effect.
AGBlastoff
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PS, will be interested to see which way the tide swings when Reese leaves Texas. Have heard rumblings that he might shut it down and go into a sort of Jon Urbanchek type role for USA-Swimming.
Look Out Below
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AG
I think 09 is talking about the most current consecutive top 25 finishes at A&M. It's something most people aren't aware of...and all but one of those finishes in that streak were in the top 20 (the one time they didn't Nash suspended his top swimmer the week of NCAA's -- a guy that at that point in time was A&M's highest-ever individual finisher).

It would be nice to see that kind of thing get more play. If it were certain other sports it damn sure would. Unfortunately, things like that just aren't on the radar of the difference makers. Take for instance the all-time top 50 (maybe more; can't remember?) athletic moments that were put out this year. Leaving out the 931-930 beating of eight-time defending champion Texas for a first-ever conference championship by winning the final event was a sacrilege. Any one that witnessed that -- swim fan or no -- will never forget it. There's nothing like watching the other teams in the Big 12 literally cheering for you on the pool deck to take down Goliath. That was a truly special moment.

(Stepping off soapbox...)
SpicewoodAg
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AG
09 - good to hear that some really good ones are coming here for visits. But still - they are saying no. That's the thing we need to figure out.

Do you really think that top 25 for a bunch of years is really that special? The "wealth" in swimming is concentrated in five schools - Cal, Stanford, Texas, Florida, and Arizona. One good swimmer or diver can probably get you a top 25 finish at NCAAs.

But if no one knows about our consistency (I believe it) - it is because we don't get the message out. So I blame the TAMU athletic department for that. I think the TAMU men's swimming story is:

- oustanding coaching
- proven development of swimmers into NCAA qualifiers
- oustanding facilities
- Texas A&M and all it has to offer including great academics

We need to be sure the last part is true for swimmers. Our women seem to have no trouble with grades. But the men's APR hasn't been so solid.

AgBlastoff - I agree about moving the UIL State Meet. But from what I hear UT has a lock on that just like they do with track and field. Doesn't mean we shouldn't work on it. Maybe the governor can help!
Look Out Below
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AG
While I agree one terrific athlete can earn you a top 20 finish (see: Eric Sehn), you still have to go out and find that kid and make sure he gets it done. There are 130+ DI swimming programs and ~105 aren't going out and getting that done and we are - every single year for the last (15-20?). The team should be proud of that.

The men/women grade issue seems to be endemic of society lately. Women, in general, seem to be doing better in school than men as a rule, though there are most certainly plenty of exceptions. I think the difference between the two teams is a reflection of that.

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 11/20/2010 5:00p).]
texagg09
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AG
Ya good call LOB, got my words mixed up on that one. Its the longest top 25 streak of ANY sport at A&M. For some reason I remembered hearing something else about it ranking up there near the top (not many teams with more) of all swim teams in the country, but maybe im whacked on that.

quote:
But still - they are saying no. That's the thing we need to figure out
spice, youre missing the point. its all about the progression. in the past we had trouble even getting the guys to come on trips at all, let along committ. Now that they are coming on trips, its a step in the right direction. the studs arent just going to wake up one morning, read an article A&M Ath Dept released about how consistent and awesome the mens swim team is, and decide to come here. Thats the trouble with building the program to that level, it takes time.

As for the AthDept marketing swimming, those points you made are the things that the guys/coaches/team are doing when they bring recruits on visits. those are obviously the main selling points we have. I think it is unreasonable to expect the athletic department to maintain a focus on broadcasting that for EVERY sport across the board. Theyve got so much else going on, i think it makes sense for them to leave it up to each individual team/coach to promote their program the way they know best. Each sport is so drastically different in how they recruit and the pitches they make, that the best recruiting is done by those who know the most about the individual program. any one of us could sell A&M swimming to a swimmer, sure. But how would we fare trying to bring in a top equestrian girl? or a cross country guy? Itd be one thing if all sports had all the same info and could recruit exactly the same, that sure would make it easy for the AthDept to blanket market all sports a ton, so all recruits knew everything. But as different as each sport is, it makes more sense for them to "leave it to the experts" so to speak.

i know your points to be marketed were more genearl, and some of those the AthDept CAN blanket market. like the great facilities, great coaches, and great academics. Those are the things they do all the time, for all sports. Everyone knows A&M for great academics, the AthDept doesnt have to broadcast that too much. Same for facilities really. As much stuff as we have popping up all over the place, its no secret that one of the main focuses is staying up to date on the facilities, and having the nicest ones in the country. As for great coaches, how many schools are gonna go out there and say "well our coaches are ok, but they could be better i guess". zero. every athletic department is going to say they have the best coaches, even if its not true. and firing a coach who hasnt advance the program in the right direction after a given amount of time is the standard way to show that you continually want to have the best coaching staffs.

As for the consistency/streak, I think it is absolutely impressive. LOB said it well. That is a LONG time to stay in the top 25, in ANY sport. As we all know, swimming can from year to year be extremely competitive in the top 25, and even more so in the top 20. Like LOB said, thats where we have been all but one year. Itd be one thing if we were 25th for 20 years in a row, but it hasnt been like that.

and for broadcasting our consistency, that is the one thing the A&M AthDept focuses on the most with the men. and nearly every press release that goes out about the mens program at the beginning of the season, or closer to the end of the season when NCs are mentioned, says something about the streak. "starting the season hoping to continue their streak of top 25 finishes"..."preparing for NCs where they will hope to continue their streak of top 25 finishes". Sometimes, I get/got sick of hearing about it, especially as a (former) swimmer. The coaches do too, because they/we know that is not the goal. they/we are NOT satisfied finishing 25th, or 20th, or 15th (any more, Once again a huge tribute to how far the program has come). It looks good to the untrained eye and casual observer, but they want to turn that streak into something more impressive. Before long it will be most consecutive top 20 finishes. Then from there itll be top 15 finishes, and on and on up the list. and trust me, that is something they tell EVERY recruit who even thinks about coming here. That the streak is very impressive, but its not the goal.

EDIT*
quote:
I think once those consistent top 12 finishes start becoming consistent top 8 finishes, there will be a huge snowball effect.
missed that part of your post Blastoff, well said.

Sorry if i missed your point on all that Spice, just my thoughts

For the state meet, i keep hearing that UIL wants to keep bringing all the kids together to compete in Austin because its the Capital. Who knows if that is really the honest reason (seems like a decent one i guess), or if t.u has some play on it (im suspicious). I definitely agree it would be huge to have the state meet in CS, but from everything I hear itll never happen. I've heard Byrne specifically talk about getting it here, for swimming and track&field, so its not like theyre not trying, but the stranglehold t.u has on it is ridiculous


[This message has been edited by texagg09 (edited 11/21/2010 7:32p).]
Aggie Athlete Involved
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AG
Where is Boris?
Why did two guys swim at UH and not the team as it sounded like they might here:

http://www.aggieathletics.com/sports/m-swim/spec-rel/111810aaa.html
SpicewoodAg
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AG
texagg09 - I respect and enjoy your posts.

Most of what you say makes sense - but I still think there is a lot of room for improvement on marketing the S&D programs, especially on the mens side.

It is interesting that you guys got tired of the top 25 consistently message. That is part of my point. That is an interesting achievement for kids who might otherwise choose Missouri or LSU. The 1:38 200 kid that chooses Texas is unimpressed with top 25. He wants top 5. I know we're not there, so we don't have that story to tell. But we need a different story than consistent top 25. I'm not sure EXACTLY what that is, but we need that story.

Kids in Texas know about A&M academics. But I'm not so sure about out of state kids. A&M has long suffered from a lack of national awareness in general. Maybe that will improve with a better football team.

I agree that the athletic department probably doesn't know how best to market swimming. But I'm also not so sure that our coaches are great marketers. You guys can tell a great story to kids when they visit. But we need to reach kids throughout Texas and the US - convince them TAMU is the destination of choice.

For example - I think it has been cool to see Wilkinson and Heiss on the Swimming World magazine website. Or Christine Marshall. Do we try to make something like that happen with the men?
AGBlastoff
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Hopefully, this class will start scoring some A-finals in individual events. Once recruits come to campus being able to name A&M swimmers, that's another time we'll see a big pickup in reputation.

I think Spice made an interesting point about SW and other sites. Maybe the team needs to put more effort into contacting these sites to get some names out. Our coaches seem as though they'd prefer to put their noses to the grindstone, work hard, have their swimmers work hard, and know that it will pay off in the long run. In the modern age of the internet, with so many swimming sites running, I think you can definitely accelerate the process a little bit by getting out there on some of these sites and doing some interviews and stuff.

Even if SW doesn't want them, heck I'd put them on my site, which is now in the 400,000+ hits/year range, all to a targeted swimming audience. Pop up on there 2 or 3 times a season, and I think it would result in a noticeable difference during the recruiting season.
Riverdancer
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I think that the Sports Information Directors could do a lot more to promote the teams. It seems like it would be easy to automatically feed the press releases to the home town news papers of the swimmers, especially when a swimmer has an outstanding meet. The A&M press release on the Georgia Tech meet which was submitted to College Swimming was really lackluster. The Swimmers Circle's article was written on a more personal level and reported that Sarah Henry was the women's swimmer of the meet. The SID didn't even mention that. I've said it before but as fans we REALLY miss the reporting of Chris Harrell who took a personal interest in the women's team and knew all of the swimmers and their times. He knew when each swimmer on the team had a big time drop. In the age of the internet and e-mail, it would seem to be an easy task to get the information on the teams out to the public.
Look Out Below
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AG
Braden does a great job over at TheSwimmersCircle. It's nice to have an Aggie putting out a solid informative site like that and not only giving the Ags their just due but providing extra insight into our team as well.

Even though I'm quite positive Chris would much rather be back at his old job, it's good that he's at CollegeSwimming.com making sure A&M doesn't ever fall through the cracks there. It certainly never hurts to have Aggie supporters out there in the swimming media.
AGBlastoff
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New blood! About time we got some of that around here! Welcome to the conversation Riverdance...

Chris did do a great job. Last I heard, we now share SID's with football (though that may have changed since then). If this is true, can you blame them for not putting much effort into swimming releases? They know who butters their bread...

There are some swimming SID's who do a GREAT job. The guy at Stanford, and the guy at Virginia are among the best. I wish someone would put out a "best SID" award or something to recognize the guys who really do a great job.

I've wondered if the dryness of some schools' releases is a lack of effort, or if it's the way the AD likes it...
halco87
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They do.

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/20917.asp

texagg09
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AG
dryness from the Men's SID has been from complete lack of effort, in my opinion. my opinion could be skewed because of the personal interest Chris took in his job for the ladies (and the equestrian team also), but the men's SID did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. He was rarely at meets, and when he was, half the time he wasnt watching and just got info from the coaches on what he should write about after the meet. I understand football is a top priority over men's swimming (which he did work with also), so that is completely justified. But when the football season is completely finished in early January (and even sooner with how our team has been the past few years), and the swim season extends through the mid/end of March, there is no excuse for not covering the prime part of the swim season to the full extent.

I'm gonna stop this rant now before i say something im gonna regret, but if Chris Harrell were the SID for both men's and women's swim teams, they would definitely get the kind of added exposure everyone here is asking for.
Look Out Below
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AG
Speaking of Aggie supporters in the swimming media, there is a very familiar face that has her name as having co-wrote the lead story on CollegeSwimming.com right now...
SpicewoodAg
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Harrell's recognition was all about what he did for the women's team.

I think the men's SID was MIA.

That is why you can't leave promoting the program to the coaching staff. They are coaches first. That's what they do best.

I think a good SID would email every USA-S and diving coach in Texas a periodic update on how A&M swimmers and divers are doing - especially Texas kids. How many coaches know how well Escobedo swam this weekend? She has kinda been stuck the last couple of years as a TXLA swimmer. But she easily swam some lifetime bests at GT after just a few months in the A&M program.

While we are ranting a bit about the SID - I think a little attention to detail on the website and the live streaming would be useful. No results file for the GT meet. Gotta go to ANOTHER team's website to get the results. And live streaming is barely worth watching since we don't see finishing times, can't hear the names and lane assignments, the immage is stretched to fill the screen, etc. I just can't believe we can't find a student volunteer video-geek who could stitch together a better program. The camera is on the wrong side of the pool. The Rec has platforms on the seating side that would work perfectly for both swimming and diving - plus could show the timing display.

My completely amateur work with a 5 year old camcorder looks better than what TAMU produces:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqhFatN1eXE
AGBlastoff
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I believe the swim team already has a camera person who records the meets for their own use. Why not just tap that into the live feed? Must be better than what AA puts out to be of any use to the coaches...

Anywho, I think every non-revenue sport in the country should attend a Gary Blair seminar. That man knows how to build a program from scratch and promote the heck out of it. I believe they even deliver season tickets door-to-door to local Ags. I bet he could give the S&D teams some tips on how to get people out. It goes beyond just the occasional giveaway, or tossing out 3-year old XXL 12th man team shirts that someone dug out of a closet. That stuff might get people there, but it won't build that relationship to create a consistent atmosphere. If you get the fans to connect with the athletes, they'll show up and be loud. And once that happens, the high schoolers will be knocking down the doors.

One of the biggest signs that we need work here is what Spice noted earlier in this thread-we can't even get a top recruit whose dad is an Aggie to come here.

There's a reason why women's basketball ranks third in attendance at A&M behind men's football and bball (and not as far behind there as you'd think) and it's because GB is amazing at building and promoting his program.
SpicewoodAg
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AG
AgBlastoff - Your suggestion is outstanding. Gary Blair is the ultimate program promoter and would do just about anything. He is not only an oustanding coach, he is a tireless evangelist for Aggie women's basketball.

That is one of the reasons I have regarded him as the overall best coach on campus. Better than Bultman. Better than Guerreri. Better than Turgeon. If Gillispie had stayed - maybe he would be up there. But Blair turned around perhaps our very worst sports program on campus, and is outrecruiting Texas and on a par with other national powers.
proudtoknow
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you gentlemen seem well connected, and express interesting, politically correct ideas.
we need a 1000 other aggies to join the conversations to move this forward.

why don't top recruits come here? if you had the choice of joining a winning program (tops in the nation) or coming into a building program, where you are the future, which would you pick?
(scholarship/no scholarship, full ride/ 1/2, 1/4 -- doesn't matter)
why do those 'other' schools keep (year after year) drawing the top kids? they have a track record of being on top, and top kids want to be part of that.

what those men did out on the football field those last 6 games betters their chances of getting some more top recruits in the years to come.

when we start producing in the pool (and GET THAT MESSAGE OUT), than we'll attract top recruits more consistently.
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