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And speaking of Nitro...I'd still rate it (all-encompasing) among the top-5 programs in the country. What other program has ever been able to say that within 5 years, they've won a TAGS (or equivalent) title AND owned two facilities (at least one is 50-meters, is the Bee Cave one 50 too?). With the way the economics of swimming works, that's absolutely mind-blowing. The guy is a genius though...he set up his pool with different-sized lanes to attend the needs of different swimmers. one-swimmer lap lanes are smaller, bigger lanes for his high school swimmers to use. It's genius.

What I want to know is, with the second location, has Mike institutionalized his enthusiasm enough that it will carry over when he's not on deck at one or the other. I hope to god it does, because this man may have single-handedly rewritten our sport (and I don't think that's an exaggeration).

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How has he done this? There is a huge need for decent facilities in our area but just getting started has been almost impossible. Folks can't get past the options of doing it with private or public funding. Very frustrating.

What is the story here?

Bogus - I don't know Mike. But what I have heard is that more than almost all swimming enthusiasts, he has a business and operational mindset. I think he spent five years raising money for their first pool. I really don't know where the money came from. Nitro's first pool is way outside Austin, in Pflugerville. He built out there because he couldn't afford land closer to Austin.

It would be very interesting to see his financial statements. He pays a mortgage instead of a pool rental. He pays for water and electricity. I wonder if he has to pay sales tax for his memberships, or just the goggles and swimsuits he sells. He probably has access to tax incentives related to running a business that a traditional USA-S program doesn't have.

I suggest you contact him directly and ask for his advice.

Add: I know Nitro is taking swimmers from every program in Austin. The new Bee Cave pool will make it even easier for kids in Westlake and south Austin to swim for Nitro.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 4/27/2011 11:39a).]

I know a lot of the details, as I've spoken with Mike a few times about the projects. Doesn't want most of them to be made too public, but he's been cash-flow positive from day one. How many businesses of any kind can say that, let alone ones with as huge of a capital outlay as this.

He didn't start exactly from scratch. He had a team running out of a CC pool for maybe a year first, and used that team to find some great investors.

As I alluded to, he really appeals to his customers at an incredible level. The pool is also no-frills. Not like the ones the schools are building. They're 50-meters, with a smaller, warm-water pool for therapy, and an exercise room. He built the lockerrooms without parts that get broken and need to be replaced frequently. He's constructed a home-made system to keep heated, treated water in the pool (because that's a huge maintenance cost). Doesn't look beautiful, but it gets the job done. He's very creative about the programs he's brought in. He's also an outstanding, enthusiastic coach who really knows how to manage a staff.

Bogustrumper, if you're serious about building a facility like his, I'd suggest you email him and try to find a Saturday to meet with him and take him out to breakfast. I'd bet he'd offer you a ton of help.

I would take him to breakfast but I'm about 800 miles away!

Interesting stuff though ... pools that get built in this region are from public money and usually include soccer and softball fields ...the big community project seems to be the only concept that is accepted

Yup - the Nitro pools are low-frills, especially the first one. They are not competition pools. They are really training and lessons pools. If you look at Nitro's website, you see they have lessons galore. A 50M pool has about 25 SCY lanes to use when set up that way. Lanes = $$$. One thing he has going for him is that he doesn't have a school district or community telling him what to do. He doesn't have to care what a city councilman says about offering a specific program. Mike sells programs that pay the bills.

One thing I am surprised (and disappointed about) is that he did not install diving boards at the Bee Cave pool. He could have offered a choice to TXLA for divers since the UT pool is the only one in Austin that has both a 1M and 3M springboard.

If swimming is a money loser, then diving is straight burning cash. I've heard that diving programs that can break even are few-and-far betweem, and that's even when they charge an arm-and-a-leg. Lots of USA clubs have dropped their diving programs in Houston. Probably one of the ways that he is able to turn a profit so easily, because he didn't bother building boards like everyone else in the world has.

Plus, the number of quality diving coaches is even smaller than quality swim coaches. Would love to see anything that can break up LA's monopoly though...

And great point about being able to offer whatever he wants. So long as he gets to do what he loves (which is run a successful USA-Swimming team), he has the freedom to sort of run whatever programs he wants that will put the most cash in his pockets, period. It's a beautiful thing.

Very interesting. I am working on a vaguely related business plan up here in NYC and it sounds like I could borrow a page or 2 from his book. I actually have a pitch to some VC's tonight.

Anyone know more background or contact info that I wouldn't be able to find online? PM if so.

AGblastoff - since I have a diver in the family, I know we pay just as much for diving as we did for swimmers. I don't see how diving is a money pit unless the diving well detracts from renting pool space or the liability insurance is too high. The initial construction costs for a 12 ft. diving well and the higher ceiling are probably not that significant. It might allow hosting of high school meets which otherwise can't include diving.

My guess is that Mike doesn't care in the least about diving and simply didn't work through the business case.

H2O - USA Swimming has some info that might be useful.

Start with:

http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1606&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en

Haha... Thanks Spicewood, but I'm not starting a club. I'm more interested in his business approach for a quasi-healthclub/locker facility next to Central Park for runners and cyclists. Mostly curious about his approach to fund-raising, facility design, and overhead management.

H20PoloAg- contact him through the Nitro site, I'd guess that's your best bet.

Spicewood- All I know is that there are several clubs who have cut diving in the past few years in the Houston area. The cost of raising the ceiling is surprisingly a lot, insurance is way higher (which is the big cost) than swimming, the boards cost more than you'd think, and unless you can attract a LARGE group of divers, it doesn't pay off. More travel is involved, and there just aren't as many of them.

AND the depth of the pool is a huge factor. I've been quoted the figure before, but as you go down to the depths required for diving, the cost increases in a HUGE way. And then the cost of heating and treating all of that extra water.

The economics of scale on it also don't work out as well-it's hard to get the same coach-swimmer-practice slot ratio as you can in a swim practice. Unless you have a University-type facility, you can only run so many divers at a time.

I don't know for a fact what exactly does diving in (it's probably a combination of those things above), but I do know what has been actually happening, which is that diving programs that are supported by a swimming program just don't last.

It's awfully expensive to run if you are doing it out of a pool with a diving well already built. It's even moreso in Nitro's case, where you'd actually have to build the diving well or sacrifice lane space, with the number of dollars that he gets per hour per lane in swimming, divers wouldn't be happy with how much they had to pay.

I'm sure some of it is a core competencies issue as well. He knows what he does well, and what he can make money off of. He opens himself up to a lot of risk if he puts his trust in a diving coach being able to add value to the team, especially when he's giving up lane space to do it.

Now, if someone with a plan and some cash walked up to him and said "I'll invest this much money for you to build a diving well on your pool, and let me run my diving program out of it. If my diving program craps out, I revert total ownership, free and clear, of that diving space to you" he'd be all over it.

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 4/27/2011 6:30p).]

I don't have any data to support my case. Diving is < 5% the participation of swimming at a city level, but a city the size of Austin could support more than TXLA.

I wonder if the costs you talk about are related to having a platform. I would propose just a 1M and 3M setup. The boards are not that expensive. They are all the same model - Duraflx Maxiflex B. About $3000 per board plus mounting hardware. Starting blocks cost $1K or more now.

I know insurance is an issue - the primary reason the typical community pool doesn't have them. But I suspect USA Diving helps out if the boards are restricted to competition divers, not recreational.

It's a non-issue in Nitro's case since they said NO. I would not be surprised if Austin doesn't get a single new diving board in the next 20 years.

Most of his revenue comes from swim lessons.

Its not a secret how he does it and he is more than happy to share details and hs approach. In fact he did so at the USA Swimming build a pool conference. He is a for profit Coach owned team. He built a 5 million dollar pool with bank debt and 30 percent down from three investors. Since then one of the investors has bought out the others as the return is good. I would assume a local Dell ionaire. To pay the interest to investor and bank debt he runs about a 1000 kids a month through swim lessons. That's the cash cow it pays for all the rest. Swim team is at best a break even deal and couldn't support a pool.

His facility is an Astral pool and has a warm water tank for lessons and the 50 meter for swimming. It is a competition pool.

He has rewritten the book on how to have a competitive team. If you haven't met him his part Trump and part Barnum Bailey running the circus. A very high energy place.

Wish I had a Dellionaire friend and I'd copy the biz model where I live.

Go see him he's happy to give you a tour.

Beretta - when I said the Nitro pools are not competition pools I meant he didn't build the pool to host meets (at least not serious meets). He can host a small meet, but no way can he compete with the better indoor pools in Texas for TAGS, STAGS, Sectionals, etc. He would need too much seating, parking, etc. for that.

A real competition pool costs an entirely different amount of money. Josh Davis Natatorium (25 SCY) cost $5M in bond money when it was built some time ago. The most recent Northside ISD pool cost $13M. Conroe's pool cost more.

Spicewood,

You are correct about it not being built for meets. That Conroe pool was 20 million I believe.

Hey, I came out of retirement and swam an open water mile at a meet last weekend. Won my age group. I swam 26 minutes and change. Really thought I would be faster. Didn't account for the kicks in the head and a bit of meandering. I'll be much faster next time now that I now how to avoid the crowd.

We'll be up your way for TAGS this summer with my son. Come by and watch some racing!

[This message has been edited by Beretta O/U (edited 4/29/2011 1:46p).]

Spicewood: Nitro's pool (North) is actually in Cedar Park, not Pflugerville.

And you're right, Nitro has gotten a lot of swimmers from other programs. They are the 2nd largest time in South Texas Swimming behind Alamo Area Aquatics. I think someone told me recently that combined, Nitro & AAAA have like close to 70% of the swimmers in South Texas swimming.

Roboag - my bad. Thanks for the correction.

With the second pool, Nitro has already taken kids I know from West Austin, Austin Elite, and Lost Creek. Who knows how many kids from TXLA will switch.

Beretta - good job with the open water swim. I just have a very difficult time getting interested in distance events.

I talk to swimming friends around the country...and they find it funny how concentrated swimmers are in Texas. I mean, sure, there's big teams everywhere. But it's not like it is down here, where in Houston, you have to drive 30 minute to get from one team to the next, or as you said in ST there's so many tons of swimmers in only two teams.

I think it has partially to do with the lack of YMCA's. To employ a full-time head coach, you can only have so many teams, whereas in the North and NE, they are able to pull double-duty as a YMCA Aquatics director and head coach, so they get away with smaller teams and can still make a living. Just a theory.

Teams like AAAA in San Antonio sort of distort things, because they have multiple teams and facilities, yet they all have the same club name. They train at Blossom/Josh Davis, Northside (two pools), San Antonio Natatorium (downtown) and maybe more, scattered all over San Antonio.

What I hear about YMCAs from Masters swimmers all over is that in general YMCAs suck. Their pools are too warm because of swim lessons and "noodlers." So no one serious wants to swim for a Y unless there is no other choice.

It will be interesting to see what club swimming looks like in Austin in five years. We have TXLA, WAAC, Lost Creek, Lone Star, Texas Gold, Cedar Park Swimming, and few oddball teams like Weiss and Weiss. I think most will survive, but I will guess that Nitro will be dominant with TXLA #2, relying on past glory and its facility.

The city continues to grow, and traffic is getting worse. So many families will continue to choose nearby clubs, regardless of how good Nitro becomes.

Hmmm...sometimes you have to consider the source...

There's a lot of very good YMCA teams around...Wilton Wahoos up in CT, WSY. I think there's as many crappy YMCA teams as there is any other kind of year-round swim team.