The Big 12 officially has the toughest tennis conference in the country. From top to bottom there are no days off . With the exception of the " you too can win a national championship with pro players" crowd from waco, every week there are titanic battles among the schools of the Big 12. As a team you're given the task of playing you're best or going home with an L. I am confident that the coaches of the league don't take any match for granted. Case in point, of the bottom four teams in the conference....Colorado, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas , which one is an easy 7-0 or even 6-1 vicory? Colorado lost a tough 4-3 match to OSU in Boulder and is competitive. Nebraska beat Rice the first dual match of the year. Oklahoma has its best team in three decades and upset the Longhorns in Norman. And speaking of Texas, who really wants to play a Longhorn team whose talented freshman laden line-up is improving quickly and has the conference tournament in its own house. Of the Longhorn loses, only one of them came at the hands of a team outside of the top ten.
As for the top group, All four are ranked in the top 15 in the nation. We spoke of the waco bunch, how about the others? Texas Tech is a top ten team and the best squad in Lubbock ever. They had 1200 fans come out last weekend to watch their match vs waco. Tim Seigel does a great job. OSU has been at the top all season and has a great player at #1 singles in Mark Van Elden...ATM has won for a while and continues to do so this season despite losing its top player to the pro circut. It's hard to cook without Cook.
I really look forward to the tournament. There are going to be some real battles. And who knows whats going to happen? Stay tuned..

[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 4/18/2005 7:55p).]

The Big 12 still can't compete w/ the SEC in men's tennis. They currently boast 8 teams in the top 25 (3 in the top 10) and 2 more in the 30s.

rik,

I'm still waiting for that evidence . . . .

here's your proof Bear:

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity/default.asp?year=%25&query=Singles&player=D385&x=14&y=2

those are ATP events in europe where he competed to bet a better ranking, and got paid. What's not pro about that.

Lets stop this banter about Baylor's playes please. Its really making us look like crying babies..The NCAA hasn't come down on them and won't anytime soon. If we don't like we need to shut them up on court..

Proof is an interesting thing...

There is no definitive proof that there was a conspiricy in the Kennedy Assasination in 1963 yet more than 85 % of Americans believe Lee Harvy Oswald did not act alone.

The is no condeming proof that Bonds/Maguire/Sosa and other home run kings of the past 15 years used steroids. Yet a poll of baseball fans across the country indicates an overwhelming belief that they are dirty.

There is no real proof that connects Jackie Sherril with former Aggie fullback George Smith from the late 80s in the pay for play scandel that caused him to resign. However, most football fans believe that Sherril was paying Smith and others.

What I am saying Bear is that knoll is dirty and everyone in college tennis knows it .As a fan of Baylor I can understand how you would choose to feel the way you do. If you want me to give you proof consider the distain for knoll across the country. Fact is there are two types of college tennis. Professional college tennis and amatuer college tennis....you can choose the one you prefer...

[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 4/19/2005 10:41p).]

Seven of Tech's ten players are from abroad. No one has said a word about their magical jump to #9.

Until the NCAA says it's wrong, Knoll will continue to do it. Maybe it's not right, I don't know.

I do know that a lot of schools are starting to do it, and that as long as the NCAA is saying it's legal, any school that doesn't is going to have a disadvantage.

314....the Tech situation is different. Sumanski and Paulson entered as freshman with Myogki. All three were 18 years old with no ranking in the ATP. Myoki left and played pro for a year and came back for one semester. Not really a good sign but still started school at Tech. He is 21. The other two have been there a while. They will be seniors in 06. Myogki is leaving to go pro and will forgo his senior season. The others on their team are good players but not at the level of waco. Both wacos one and two players are pros and were pros when they got to waco. Kotka was ranked in the 300s before entering waco. I have no comment on zgaga or portnov or porshkee...

Also , should it not be imperative to waco to take the high road. Meaning the old saying.."well everybody is doing it" is not the best way to go. The NCAA is ill equipped to research this stuff. They made a trip to Germany last summer to investigate the Bundas League . What did they find? Who Knows.?.but it still doesn't make it right to take a sport that has been so great for so many years and serve up a mockery. Maybe you're right but college tennis is one place you could count on to watch amatuer sports..Maybe we do need two college tennis"s...

[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 4/19/2005 10:37p).]

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playersearch=Makowski

So what does this actually mean, when the ATP website shows that a player recieved prize money?

AVG...you're kidding....right?

No, it's an honest question. Is the career prize money that Makowski received different somehow than the prize money that Dorsch recieved?

What about this guy?

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity/default.asp?year=%25&query=Singles&player=D461&x=11&y=0

look at their respective prize money

Dorsch has $12,005 and Dakki has $6,638?

So it appears we both have players who have taken money to play tennis. This disappoints me, if you take money, you have turned pro in that sport and can't come back. That's the rule for other NCAA sports, why not tennis?

actually you have to pay all the money back and apply for reinstatement. The problem is that there is a different philosophy when it comes to sports in other countries and in the United States. In the United States everything is really about amatuer sports and unless you are a star you play in high school, club, and college. In Europe many of the players are professional by the time they are 14. Some earlier due to many of youth lagues for good players being run as minor league teams and leagues. Its just a different society and until something is done about it some kids that are actually true amatuers will be shortchanged out of a scholarship and competition.

Actually, player's are allowed to accept a small amount of money from a tournament. Its officially deemed "travel expense" money and is supposed to just cover basic costs. I think its on the order of less than ~$500 but I'm not sure. That's why Dakki's prize money is never over $300. If you take a look, just about all college level player's have won a couple hundred dollars, even our beloved Shuon Madden:
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity/default.asp?year=1998&player=M713&x=8&y=4
The NCAA knows about all of this ATP money, its the money they DON'T know about (or don't have on the books) from the semi-pro European leagues that is so controversial.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playersearch=Dakki

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playernumber=J309

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playersearch=Makowski

A&M has always used "professional" players too.

bear...did you even read the post above yours?

You guys are digging in the wrong direction if you're trying to look at ATP money as a sign of "pro" status. Most all quality college players hit these up in the summers.

Its the German club teams that draw the complaints of players getting paid significant money thereby violating amateur status. Tennis is too far off the radar to be able to prove how much people get paid there. Always has, always will.

EXACTLY as Cooter said -- these ATP results mean nothing. You can play these and not accept the prize money (or only take money to cover your expenses) and still retain your amateur status. You will find that many players on A&M and Baylor's teams have played these tournaments, as have many good college players.

The uproar over the Baylor players is about the German Bundesliga, where they played for club teams. Payment is made under the table and there is really no way of monitoring it. The situation something like if a football player were to go to his hometown and sign autographs at a car dealership and then have a few thousand dollars handed to him under the table.

I used to be on the anti-Baylor bandwagon until we signed Dakki. After that, I think we really have no room to talk. I've said this before, but just because our ringers aren't as good as theirs doesn't change the fact that we have ringers. Hopefully these new age rules will help this situation.

I'm just still waiting for this "evidence" rikochet promised.

Cooter is dead on correct concerning the Bundas League in Germany. Money paid is to players on the club level is remarkable. The kicker is that it goes unreported both as income and documentation. ATP money is small however both Dorsch and Makowski are pros. Jerry turned pro after he graduated from hs as a 14 year old. Both guys are bright students which has nothing to do with the fact that they are professional players...

bcs bear keep waiting...and watching..

quote:

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The NCAA hasn't come down on them and won't anytime soon.

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Did they not just implement the over 20 rule?

For every year your over 20 you lose a year of elidgeibility. i.e. 22y/o only has 2 years to play?

I may of made this up in my head but i thought it was put into place.

Maybe I have just grown numb to it or maybe I don't think it is anything more than sour grapes but some but I don't mind Baylor's players.

I have gotten a chance to know a couple of them, and the fact is they seem to be better adjusted people and more serious students than half the yahoos walking arund on their campus. I read an articel on Kokta recently, and he is apparently carrying a 4.0 as a double major in Finance and Economics. Those youg men work hard.

Its funny that we support athletes taking worthless majors in revenue generating sports that we use to make money and we get upset with guys who made possibly a few bucks on some european circuit who are actual student/athletes.

I do buy the argument that it is taking away some opportunitys from US born players to get a scholarship, but I guess I don't think it is that big of a deal.