One note: I love watching the EPL, even though I think the average American would like it better if there was more scoring. I agree with Hap that mass popularity (the kind that translates into TV ratings and full stadiums) appears to be something of a hopeless quest. However, this is such a large country that I don't believe that soccer has to get to the top of the list in order to be considered a "success," which I would consider to be having a viable pro league and a men's team that can compete on the world stage (the two probably go hand in hand).

I don't think the rest of the world gives a rats ass what the US thinks. The game is just fine as it is.
If you understand whats going on as others have said you find excitement in the game, not just the goals.
No one wants it to end in a draw, but a draw is better than a loss.

The US game the other day was a high scoring game? Did you like that one?



'It's been......emotional'.

Double Post.

[This message has been edited by LondonOllie (edited 6/15/2006 2:44p).]

Can they at least fix the clock? I would greatly enjoy knowing when the game is going to end. All other sports (with a timing element) have perfected this concept.

Signed,
Stupid American

americans need to educate themselves or just not worry about it, just dont make fun of it or talk about why it is not as good as X sport, that just shows ignorance of the game.

american sports fans are too ADD. hockey was forced to completely retrofit their game and rules to suit the americans, much to the chagrin of hockey purists.

Soccer/football is fine just the way it is, the greatest sport in the world! I dont't think the 6 BILLION other people in the world for whom football/soccer is their #1 sport need to understand why 250 million americans dont like it.

Sponge - there is nothing wrong with the clock. the game runs 90 mins; 2 - 45 min halves. the ref keeps track of how much stoppage time there has been for injuries and such and tacks that on the end of each half. When it gets close to the 45/90 min mark the fourth ref will will display the amount of stoppage time that will be added and it is on the tv screen as well as the announcer say how much is left.

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american sports fans are too ADD. hockey was forced to completely retrofit their game and rules to suit the americans, much to the chagrin of hockey purists

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talk about ignorance of other games!

No offsides once the ball is in the box.

soccer could have a 2 point line- or a 3 point line with all regular goals= 2 points!!!!

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Seems like it sure would help....

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if it ain't broke....

soccer is the world's most popular game. nobody cares if americans don't have enough patience/attention span for it.

Why do 0.1% of Americans feel that they have to apologize for being an American?

This is what cracks me up the most about the soccer "debate".

99% of Americans don't give a rat's ass (to quote a previous poster) AT ALL about soccer. Mention today’s 2-1 Netherlands win over the Ivory Coast at your next meeting just to get a feel for the average American’s passion for the game…

0.9% of us actually kind of like the game but see the flaws and make comments or make inquiries on how those flaws could be rectified so that we would like it more and maybe influence the other 99% to like it more as well.

The 0.1% feel compelled to deride their 0.9% American counterparts and say that we are ADD, we're too "American" (whatever the hell that means), we don't understand the nuance of the game, we're stupid, our mothers were cheap *****s, etc.

The bottom line is that this 0.9% ENJOY BEING AN AMERICAN. America is the most powerful, the wealthiest and the most influential nation on earth. We refuse to apologize for that.

We generally set the trends for the rest of the world ...clothes...shoes..cars..movies...music..TV...etc. We don't seek it. We don't run from it. We certainly can't dictate it. The world just generally wants to emulate us.

And soccer (FIFA) realizes that America defines the standard of what is cool. Therefore, FIFA wants America to like soccer. And FIFA has a problem. Should they appeal to 0.1% who love them as they are? Should they appeal to the 0.9% who like them and want to like them more? Or should they take broader steps to appeal to the other 99%?

The problem is that soccer, as it is played today, doesn't appeal to that 99% of Americans. So a few (American and European) soccer proponents have decided to try and shame Americans into liking soccer (by calling them ADD,etc) rather than evolving the game into a form that Americans appreciate.

But shaming us (the 0.9% who like soccer and the 99.0% who don’t care) hasn't (and won't) work. Either soccer changes or we won't ever love it. It's pretty simple. As another previous poster said, “If anyone could watch… Sweden-TT and say with a straight face that it was boring because there wasnt (sic) enough scoring then you need to stop watching the game, because you will never get enjoyment from it.”

If things stand as they are, I guess we won’t. Watching ROUTINE 0-0 ties doesn’t fire us up…and NEVER WILL. As long as they are routine. Might a 0-0 American Football game excite us? Maybe…because they are RARE. But don’t give us 0-0 all the time. That’s a yawner.

I can say this because I have watched more World Cup matches than 99.0% of all Americans. I watched Australia-Japan. I watched USA-Czech Republic. I watched England-TT. I've watched a TON of World Cup action.

And in every instance, I can say that I would appreciate the sport a lot more if a) there were more scoring and b) the team that scored first didn't go on to win 85% of the matches.

Even my wife (who has no clue about soccer) can see this. Once the Czechs went up 1-0 over the Americans, she said, "It's over." That sucks. Americans love a comeback. We came back against the Brits in 1776. We helped Europe come back against the Germans...TWICE. And there are rarely, if ever, comebacks in soccer.

So you can say it's a beautiful game all you want. Watching a talented player is beautiful. The things a talented player can do with a ball are freakin' amazing. However, watching that uber talented player be rendered impotent by a game that promotes a system that retards his talents (i.e low scoring) vs. a system that exploits his talents (i.e SOME scoring) is frustrating at best and mind numbing at worst.

In many ways, soccer is a very European mentality game vs. an American mentality game. It is socialist vs. capitalist. It is designed to ensure that those with tremendous talent never get very far in front of those with average talent. They can win but not dominate. Witness most of this year's world cup…Trinidad & Tobago being the prime example. They suck but are able to hang with Sweden and England. Americans love an underdog but we love the occasional underdog who survives against all odds… not the underdogs who exploit flaws in an obviously flawed system to simply hang around and be a pest.

That's why Americans (that care at all) get frustrated with soccer. We like to let true talent really shine.....

army93, get a grip. You sound like some patrotic soundbyte.
A team like T&T can do that because of tactics.
You can have a very tallented team get beat by a crappier team. Usually the T&T result wont happen, but it can. That is what makes the game such a great game, it does give the chance for smaller teams to knock out larger ones, like the Final Four. It happens. Same in college football. Was OU tallent better than UT the first time UT got punked when Stoops took over? Nope, that was coaching.

As for the rest of the world looking up to the US for everything, I think you need to travel some. Yep, lots of trends from the USA are considered cool, but it goes the other way, which is why you see so much in the US advertised as 'european' this that and the other.

Sheesh.

'It's been......emotional'.

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And soccer (FIFA) realizes that America defines the standard of what is cool

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Yeah, because the NFL has really caught on worldwide, and soccer hasn't. Oh wait...

On the bandwagon since birth. Raised in the bleachers of Kyle, Olsen, and G. Rollie White

that post lost crediblity when you said the USA sets the trends in cars<germany> shoes and clothes<france>...that would be europe.

oldarmy93

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We generally set the trends for the rest of the world ...clothes...shoes..cars..movies...music..TV...etc. We don't seek it. We don't run from it. We certainly can't dictate it. The world just generally wants to emulate us.

And soccer (FIFA) realizes that America defines the standard of what is cool.

---

your post pretty much sums up what people in other countries (and some of us here) hate about us Americans, this arrogance that we are sooo much better then everybody else.

"oldarmy93" (definitly NOT Ol' Army)

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We like to let true talent really shine.....

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So you prefer a talented offensive player over a talented defensive player?

Sounds like a throwback to the first days of the AFL. which was way before your time, kid.

As has been expounded upon many times here, the thrill does come from the score, but the beauty of the game is the fludity, the build up of the attack, the players working as a team.

I'd rather see a low-scoring match in which the players at all positions have demonstrated their skills, than a blowout where one or two players have hogged the play, showing off, and generally brought disrepute into the game.

As a NFL coach once said, offense wins games, but defense wins championships.

Personally, I thought Arena did a half-a$$ed job today. The team was aggressive and played well, but Arena had another substitute to give, and we could have used the fresh legs there at the end. After Pope went out, he stopped playing to win, and was only playing NOT to lose.

As a Referee, I'm not allowed to comment about the performance of the gentleman from Uruguay today. (But I do agree with the announcer's assessment of his continuing in ths tournement.)

Player at A&M (Rugby, too)
Coach since 1985
Referee since 1993
Instructor since 2004

One Southwest Conference band director of the (Adams) era reportedly said "I dread going against the Aggie Band...It takes two weeks to recover from the trauma."

Essayons,

Flaggie
FTAB '69

In the late 1960’s, at the beginning of the North American Soccer League (NASL), Lamar Hunt, owner of the Dallas Tornadoes, realized that soccer would have a difficult time catching on with Americans unless there was more scoring.

As a result, he went to FIFA and tried to get them to allow the NASL to increase the size of the goals. His request was denied.

After an up & down 17 years (mostly up), sadly in 1984 the NASL folded.

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As a Referee, I'm not allowed to comment about the performance of the gentleman from Uruguay today.

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That's another weakness of soccer. A Little League or HS umpire could comment all he wants.

I enjoy watching soccer and I'm not bothered by low scoring or when a game ends in a tie.

I do dislike watching late or beaten defensive men taking down offensive players from behind, tackling illegally and pushing or grabbing as a last resort.

Less of that would doubtless result in more goals.

BTW, my son believes that you can no longer diectly score on a corner kick, because of a rule change requiring the ball to contact at least one other player before a score can occur.

Has there been such a rule change?



Gig 'em, FAST FRED '65.

Before the world wide web, village idiots usually stayed in their own village.

[This message has been edited by FAST FRED (edited 6/18/2006 12:13a).]

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"oldarmy93" (definitly NOT Ol' Army)

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Ummm.....Your smack talk might be just a little more effective if you would learn how to SPELL.

Some people are just so easy it's not worth the time.......

Elimate the stupid offsides violation.

Fast Fred, as far as I know, corner kicks are still direct.

On the bandwagon since birth. Raised in the bleachers of Kyle, Olsen, and G. Rollie White

Here you go Fred, from the Laws of the Game on FIFA.com

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A goal may be scored directly from a corner kick, but only against the opposing team.

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So yes you can still score direct from a corner, but you can't chip your own keeper for the most amazing own goal in history.

On the bandwagon since birth. Raised in the bleachers of Kyle, Olsen, and G. Rollie White

Thanks, Ag Since 83, I haven't watched or kept up with soccer much since our American women's team won the World Cup years ago.

But, I enjoy remembering how that same kid, who thought the rule was changed now, scored directly when he struck a corner kick many years ago.

He bent that sucker right in, high at the near post, before the keeper could get there.

One of four goals he scored in that particular youth soccer game.

Good times.



Gig 'em, FAST FRED '65.

Before the world wide web, village idiots usually stayed in their own village.

[This message has been edited by FAST FRED (edited 6/18/2006 1:40p).]

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Elimate the stupid offsides violation.

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The offsides trap is one of the key strategic elements of soccer.

I really don't think you would want to see a game if the rule didn't exist.

That would be the equivalent of not having offsides in American football. i.e line up with a reciever in the end zone, would lead to increased touchdowns. Yeah, but would you want to watch that??

Well, I guess we should add offsides to basketball. Think what new strategic elements could be added to that great game

'...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.'

How about Goalie can't be over 5' 4and 3/8 inches tall and must wear a 20# ankle bracelet on each foot.

Midget goalies.

Indoor soccer (just like basketball) works very well without the offside penalty. It is a much more offensive minded game without it.

Outdoor soccer would be much more of an offensive game if there were no offside penalty.

screw it throw up some walls around the field and allow unlimited subs...wait no let the players throw the ball and run with it...make the goal a big space 10 yards deep...or we could make the goal smaller and make the ball a tiny rubber thing and give the players sticks and play on ice...

Yall are stupid...really really stupid

I have watched most every game this world cup. I have enjoyed it. I watch soccer once every four years because i dont think i could stand much more than that. I love sports and watch them constantly no matter what sport it is. The thing i hate about soccer is a tie. I mean you go the whole game and no one wins. What the hell was the point in playing. This is my biggest problem with it. Americans love winners. When there is no winner you wonder why the hell you just watched it if no one won. Another reason i cant watch alot of soccer is all the flopping and diving they do. If i wanted to go see some one put on a acting performance i would go see a movie. I just get so tired of them falling on the ground rolling around in pain then gettingback up and sprinting down the field. These are grown freaking men acting like a 4 year old who just bumped his toe and wants his mommy. Compare it to football were people just get the crap knocked out of them and how many times you see a stretcher come out, but in a soccer game you see it several times a game and most the time player gets up off it and is back on the field within couple minutes. It goes against everything i learned growing up. I think more people would enjoy it alot more if it wasnt known as the sport were all people do is fall after being tapped.

09, you are correct. It happens all too often.

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Why do 0.1% of Americans feel that they have to apologize for being an American?

This is what cracks me up the most about the soccer "debate".

99% of Americans don't give a rat's ass (to quote a previous poster) AT ALL about soccer. Mention today’s 2-1 Netherlands win over the Ivory Coast at your next meeting just to get a feel for the average American’s passion for the game…

0.9% of us actually kind of like the game but see the flaws and make comments or make inquiries on how those flaws could be rectified so that we would like it more and maybe influence the other 99% to like it more as well.

The 0.1% feel compelled to deride their 0.9% American counterparts and say that we are ADD, we're too "American" (whatever the hell that means), we don't understand the nuance of the game, we're stupid, our mothers were cheap *****s, etc.

The bottom line is that this 0.9% ENJOY BEING AN AMERICAN. America is the most powerful, the wealthiest and the most influential nation on earth. We refuse to apologize for that.

We generally set the trends for the rest of the world ...clothes...shoes..cars..movies...music..TV...etc. We don't seek it. We don't run from it. We certainly can't dictate it. The world just generally wants to emulate us.

And soccer (FIFA) realizes that America defines the standard of what is cool. Therefore, FIFA wants America to like soccer. And FIFA has a problem. Should they appeal to 0.1% who love them as they are? Should they appeal to the 0.9% who like them and want to like them more? Or should they take broader steps to appeal to the other 99%?

The problem is that soccer, as it is played today, doesn't appeal to that 99% of Americans. So a few (American and European) soccer proponents have decided to try and shame Americans into liking soccer (by calling them ADD,etc) rather than evolving the game into a form that Americans appreciate.

But shaming us (the 0.9% who like soccer and the 99.0% who don’t care) hasn't (and won't) work. Either soccer changes or we won't ever love it. It's pretty simple. As another previous poster said, “If anyone could watch… Sweden-TT and say with a straight face that it was boring because there wasnt (sic) enough scoring then you need to stop watching the game, because you will never get enjoyment from it.”

If things stand as they are, I guess we won’t. Watching ROUTINE 0-0 ties doesn’t fire us up…and NEVER WILL. As long as they are routine. Might a 0-0 American Football game excite us? Maybe…because they are RARE. But don’t give us 0-0 all the time. That’s a yawner.

I can say this because I have watched more World Cup matches than 99.0% of all Americans. I watched Australia-Japan. I watched USA-Czech Republic. I watched England-TT. I've watched a TON of World Cup action.

And in every instance, I can say that I would appreciate the sport a lot more if a) there were more scoring and b) the team that scored first didn't go on to win 85% of the matches.

Even my wife (who has no clue about soccer) can see this. Once the Czechs went up 1-0 over the Americans, she said, "It's over." That sucks. Americans love a comeback. We came back against the Brits in 1776. We helped Europe come back against the Germans...TWICE. And there are rarely, if ever, comebacks in soccer.

So you can say it's a beautiful game all you want. Watching a talented player is beautiful. The things a talented player can do with a ball are freakin' amazing. However, watching that uber talented player be rendered impotent by a game that promotes a system that retards his talents (i.e low scoring) vs. a system that exploits his talents (i.e SOME scoring) is frustrating at best and mind numbing at worst.

In many ways, soccer is a very European mentality game vs. an American mentality game. It is socialist vs. capitalist. It is designed to ensure that those with tremendous talent never get very far in front of those with average talent. They can win but not dominate. Witness most of this year's world cup…Trinidad & Tobago being the prime example. They suck but are able to hang with Sweden and England. Americans love an underdog but we love the occasional underdog who survives against all odds… not the underdogs who exploit flaws in an obviously flawed system to simply hang around and be a pest.

That's why Americans (that care at all) get frustrated with soccer. We like to let true talent really shine.....

---

'...what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.'

im not gonna lie, i have never liked soccer and have always had the "typical" american viewpoint on it. i still dont find it more enjoyable than baseball/ football/ basketball/ golf, but watching the world cup games and the way teams set themselves up has really increased my interest. i still think fouls are too easily called. soccer floppers make basketball flops look minute. i dont agree with the on-going clock, ease of foul calling, and the fact that you can push someone down right outside of "the box" and barely get penalized. maybe im just a new fan, and it will come to me later, but the game is not fun when teams take cheap shots to win, or the refs have entire control over the outcome (U.S. vs. italy). all in all though, ive learned to respect the sport.