The tennis coach thread was kind of hijacked. How about a swimming focused thread?

The issue on my mind today is recruiting. We have not yet announced our incoming recruits for this fall. I remember reading a bit this spring about the women, but have heard nothing about the men. Anyone have any news?

Other topics:

- Codie Hansen seems off this summer. Her times at Nationals were not particularly good. I wonder if she has peaked?

I seriously doubt Hansen has peaked...she set personal bests in most of her events less than six months ago...Until she is significantly slower at Big 12's or NCAA's, I don't think that question has any merit...believe it or not, she actually swam faster this summer than last

The men released their signees quite late last year so I would expect the same this year...the women only lost a couple of girls so I would imagine they don't have room to add too many... I would expect to see new rosters online within the first week or two of school starting

LOB - I hope you're right about Hansen.

I have a friend on the men's team who tells me how much distance the girls do. There is a growing body of swim coaches (Dave Salo and Teri McKeever for example) who do not subscribe to the more distance philosophy that is so prevalent today. I worry at least a bit that our girls are at risk of overtraining. Most of our girls do not seem to improve much over their careers.

BTW - it doesn't look like Rebecca Sturdy swam any USA meets this summer. Is she training at all?

The less-is-more training idea has been in the US for over a decade, but is still is not the norm.

From what I remember from my old coach, the idea started in Australia when people like Kierin Perkins were dominating the world scene at a very young age in the mid-distance & distance events. One of the first US coaches to use the idea was John Urbanchek (former Michigan Men's Coach).

The strategy basically had the idea that a distance swimmer shouldn't train for 3x1000 yards, but for 25x100's holding (1000yd) race pace with a small amount of rest. This way the swimmer got used to going a certain speed, not going until they drowned. Also, coaches started testing lactic acid build-up on deck with finger *****s. This also led into the idea that someone is really only capable of training about 2000 yards at full speed in a workout (plus about 2000 warm-up and 1000 coo-down) and it is more beneficial to train shorter, more quality, distances. This is the the "new" idea of less yardage. Train really freakin' hard for those 2000 yards (5000 total) and you are better off than if you did an 8000 yard workout. This also reduces injuries due to over training.

I know that was a rough explanation, and certainly has some mistakes in there. The idea is that hard taining shouldn't always be measured in yards or meters.

h20polo - I understand some of the history under this style of training. Gary Hall Jr. is an example of someone who is very fast and training relatively little distance. Some of this is based on good physiology - why does a race like 100 free which is largely anaerobic need huge amounts of distance training?

Some argue the distance is needed for technique and feel of the water. But I think there are plenty of examples of less is more working well for many swimmers, especially sprinters. Phelps is an example of the opposite since he does unbelievable yardage.

Another aspect is that some swimmers are leaving the sport because they hate the drill.

Sturdy has very rarely swam meets during ANY summer since being at A&M...I don't think it's out of the ordinary...

I tend to disagree about the girls not getting faster as they get older...you will always have a few that are that way but as a group they keep getting better...look at this past year's three seniors: Briskie - 2:11 in the 200 breast; Pesek 23.1 50 free; Zwierzykowski swimming 23-mid 50 free's with an injury...those are all right at lifetime bests for all three of those girls...the year before, Patterson and Townsend were right at, or in Townsend's case way beyond, lifetime bests in their final season...as a rule, Bultman's kids get faster, but like in most anything in life there is always an exception every once in a while...

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 8/19/2006 11:35p).]

Codie Hansen -

200 free 2002 5A State - 1:46.93
100 free 2005 5A State - 49.81

200 free TAMU best - 1:46.17
100 free TAMU best - 49.48

I'm not ragging on Hansen at all. I think she is a marvelous swimmer and one of our best recruits ever. But her improvement in freestyle events since arriving at A&M is very small, especially in 200 free.

I hope the answer is not simply training "harder."

again, the likelihood is that she will continue to get faster...you must also remember she came from a superb club team and did get excellent coaching before college...that is not always the case with club swimmers

I don't know what to think about women improving in college. It seems like a lot of girls have a peak arround 16, then hopefully another one some time in college. With Hansen just entering her sophomore year, I would like to think she has another peak (or two) left in her.

I just noticed that she swam for DM. Mook is a great coach, but I'm surprised she went that far to train since there are some well respected coaches in Arlington & the mid-cities.

I think the experience of elite swimmers show that females do not hold on to their performance level like the men do. Neil Walker is still one of the USA's best freestyle sprinters at 29+. Gary Hall Jr. is still very fast at 30+.

Only Rachel Komisarz at 29 seems to be swimming fast as a female.

I admit that I worry our women's program relies too much on pounding the yardage. The men's team has a sprint-oriented history and I don't worry as much about them.

Rebecca Sturdy may be essentially finished. Her fabulous freshman year was followed by shoulder surgery and she is not the same. She probably could have finished her A&M career as an NCAA finalist in IM, back, or free/fly. But she didn't race this summer at all - maybe to rest her shoulder. I'm speculating of course and hope I'm wrong. But if Sturdy was feeling good - I think she'd have raced this summer with Nationals and PanPacs on the schedule.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 8/22/2006 10:46a).]

I disagree about Sturdy...Last time she raced collegiately she was splitting 22-low in the 200 free relay at NCAA's which is actually faster than she swam her freshman year in that race...She ranked No. 3 on the team in the 50 on a team LOADED with 50 freestylers (9 girls under 24 seconds not including Wilkinson who is certainly more than capable of that; P.S. what a summer she has had!)...I wouldn't blame Sturdy for wanting to take it easy on her body after that kind of surgery...Only way she is done is if she somehow reinjures herself

LOB - I hope you're right about Sturdy. If she is back to form this season, we are a better team.

Spicewood...Gary Hall Jr. is indeed a freak of nature when it comes to training. If he had ever committed himself to ridged work in the pool and on dry land he would have more gold than ft knox.

Mentally he is indeed a throughback to the 60s. He is more retro than his dad.

I'm not sure it is fair to say Gary Hall didn't work hard. He refused to accept the style of training that was standard at the time. He was a pure sprinter and just didn't buy into swimming 60,000 yards a week so he could race for 20 seconds. It might be that his style of training has kept him this fast past 30 years.

Interesting spin on Hall that I never really thought of before. I guess the flip side is that maybe he could have been even faster and actually beaten Popov if he trained harder. Either way, what most people had a problem with was his attitude. His personality was great for getting attention to the sport, but didn't quite fit with the atmosphere of a pool deck. I have some mixed thoughts on if he was good or bad for swimming, but probably good in the long run. People sure don't talk about Neil Walker, Tom Dolan, or Anthony Ervin as shaping the sport.

Now we're starting to see a slight shift, but you still have the traditional humble hard workers like Phelps dominating the sport.

No question that Hall Jr. had an impact on the sport. 50% performance, 50% personality? Swimming is not really noted for colorful people so I think Hall makes the sport more interesting, especially to non-swimmers.

Phelps is distance oriented in his training. I was told once his morning workout has been as long as 3 hrs and 18,000 yds. He trains like a distance guy. But a slowly growing number of top coaches like Salo and McKeever have been training their swimmers differently, at least the non-distance swimmers. One of the problems I think is that too few coaches understand physiology - energy pathways, power vs. endurance, etc. and continue to believe that more yardage = speed. I don't know much about Marsh's philosophy but he has a superb track record producing sprinters.

As far as I know, the girls got a blue chipper or two, but, as previously mentioned, didn't have much room for additions.
The men got replacements, but no one to lift them unless someone steps up and becomes more than they were advertised.
I hope sturdy keeps swimming...don't know if she will (I don't know if SHE knows if she will), but every swimmer who I have ever known who quit early regrets it FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES...not to sound too harsh.
Of course, I am only slightly joking...I have met very average swimmers who swam for a&m for a year or two in the 60's or 70's and still lament not going all 4 years.
When you swim for so long, it is not just what you do, it becomes who you are. Many people who swam in college 20 years ago will give their title when asked "what they do" but will say swimmer when they are asked "what are you"

sprinter - I think you are right about being a swimmer. It is very similar to once an Aggie, always an Aggie.

I swam through high school. Swam intramurals at A&M. Didn't swim for 25+ years. Now I swim Masters in the 45-49 age group. Having fun...

I'm worried about the men's team. We had a good class last year, some of whom didn't get to swim last year. Our distance swimmers should be good, maybe better than ever. Loney and Hard swam all summer and seem to be improving steadily. We lose 8 seniors.

Spicewood,
I'll have to check, but I think we'll be fine, no big improvements, though, unless, as I said, someone steps up.
We did loose a lot, but if the distance guys are as good as they say, we should be fine. If one guy makes top 8, that is a lot of points compared to how we have scored in the recent past (12-17th place range).
Plus, the relays will be OK because some guys didn't get to swim them last year since we were deep.

Good point about swimmers. I decided to play water polo instead of swimming. Looking back I'm not sure exactly why. I wasn't great, but I had a few junior's cuts and had no problem puting in the training.

In addition to playing polo all through college, I also got into triathlons, rugby, and marathons more recently. It's been about a year since I've been in the water in any form and 8 (wow!) since my last meet, but I still consider myself a swimmer, not any of those other things.

By the way, Rugby is the greatest game I've ever watched or played. I wish it were bigger in the US.

Sprinter,
How is the Texas talent overall? I've noticed that UT has dropped back a bit in the past few years after winning NCAA 3 years in a row. I know some of that has to do with a few of their guys turning pro and graduating. It also seems like a bunch of our top recruits have been coming from other states (and countries) lately. I was just currious if you knew anything about the recent recruiting scene in the state.

The word on collegeswimming.com is that Eddie's incoming class is his strongest in many years. Many, if not most, of the stars are out of state guys. They only lose 4 seniors - only Christian Schurr was a major contributor.

I don't know how texas is incoming, but they haven't had enough superstarts the last 5 years to take them to the top. They have a lot of good guys, but not that many superstars.
The women, though still good, have been really losing ground the last couple of years and last year the head coach was let go. Now i'm not sure what will happen over there, if they get a good coach, it could save them, but one or two bad years could put them in a sticky situation.
Most of our recruits have been from out of state or country because the last few years have been tough for us to recruit in state. After bill came on as AD (he has a reputation) and then Mel Nash got canned, it will take another couple of years, but I think in 2 years (depending on circumstances), we will be able to really recruit in state again very easily.

Texas has a new women's coach - Kim Brackins. She is the former women's coach at Auburn. Excellent pedigree. Once again I think A&M has a good chance to beat them at Big12s and outswim them at NCAAs. We should own Texas in the freestyle races. We're weak on breastroke and fly. Strong but not deep in IM and back.

You're right about Texas' men's team. They have not replaced the Big Three (Hansen, Crocker, Peirsol) but apparently this year's freshmen are spectacular. I can't name them though. In a few days it should be more clear.

For our men - I don't think we have a single guy who is faster than 21 in 50 free.

It sounds like things have really come together for the women. Steve has always seemed to be a great coach and now the recruiting has fallen into place. They are definitely in an exciting spot right now.

I have no proof of this, but I can't honestly believe that our guys don't have anyone under 21, unless you are only talking about the incoming freshman class. Even that is a little hard to believe. Anyway, I hope the recruiting starts to come together. I would like to think that BB has shown that he will not follow his trend from past schools (cutting men's swimming), but you never know.

why so negative spicewood? Ozzie Gardner is a 20.05 freestyler and Picasso is 20.6 according the Aggie website..there could be more that we don't know about coming in to help them

I disagree that the women are weak in back and fly...we have the Big 12 champion in both the 100 back and 100 fly (both freshmen)...we also have two Big 12 runners-up in the IM and added a solid back/IM'er in Emily Neal...the Ags have 3 girls faster than 55.1 100 back, 4 girls faster than 1:59 200 back, 3 girls faster than 55 in 100 fly plus we have a 1:59 200 IMer and two (maybe three) sub 4:18 400 IMer's...that's a stout lineup without even talking about freestyle

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 8/25/2006 11:39p).]

I'm pretty good friends with a lot of the guys on the UT mens team. And you guys are right, the incoming class is looking pretty solid. As far as replacing AP, Crock and Brendan, they have some guys that sure are gettting a lot faster, but its still tough to do what those 3 did. Garrett Weber-Gale won the 100 free with a 42.11 (UT record) at NCAAs this spring. They also had a number of guys make a pretty good showing at the USA Swimming Championships earlier this month.

LOB - I'm not trying to be negative. I thought Ozzie was a senior - my error. And I missed Picasso.

For the girls - I agree we are strong in 100 back. I tried not to consider incoming freshmen since I don't know who is incoming for Texas.

I am very excited about the women's team this year, as I was last year. Unless the Texas women do something unexpected this year I don't see how we lose to them at Big12s. The men is another story. Texas has 7 guys under 1:40 in 200 free. We have none. We have one returner under 50 in 100 fly. Texas had 10 last season and most return (I didn't count). Texas won't taper for Big12s and will kill us.

"Some argue the distance is needed for technique and feel of the water"-SpicewoodAg

I am sorry, but that quote cracked me up...............who ever argued that sentence apparently knows nothing about swimming.

feel of the water?????????????????

Glad that there is a discussion about swimming.

Andyv94 - I may not have written that sentence exactly like I meant it. I don't think anyone in swimming argues that technique and feel of the water is important. The arguable part is how much training do you need to achieve optimum technique and feel of the water? Some now question whether 70,000 yds per week is necessary, especially for sprinters.

Sick of Mack Brown

I am not implying that you made the comment or anything like that at all.

But the "feel for the water" comment is absolutely crazy. Again, I know that you did not come up with it. The ONLY reason as to why the old style of work outs (swimming 16k/day workouts) where used back then was for building up stamina and endurance.................NOTHING about "feel for the water"..........trust me.

For a while they went to a more quality over quantity and some coaches even back in the mid-late 80's would mix in quality one day and quantity the next to let your body recuperate from the quality work out (by quality I mean 6000 meters or yards/work out of very high pace sets............long work outs consisted of longer sets with a very low pace and slow intervals)

Did anyone check out the Pan-Pacs on TV at all? I had been keeping up a little with the men's results last week.

US women went 1-2 in the 1500 with the only sub 16 min times other than Janet Evans. I forgot how incredible she was. It's almost 20 years later and it's the first time anyone has come within 8 seconds of her record. Pretty ridiculous.

To make it Aggie related, I was curious why Matt Rose swam the backstroke leg for Canada's medley relay (and did very well), but not the individual event. I would assume it had to do with the order of events, but I didn't look at what other events he swam.

I'm glad Matt Rose continues to race. Obviously men can be competitive to 30 and beyond (Josh Davis). I suppose Andrew Sullivant isn't swimming anymore. Wouldn't it be great to have Rose and Sullivant on our relay again?

Rose didn't qualify in the 100 back at the Canadian trials...he should have competed in the 50 free but was DQ'd in prelims...he would have been a player in that event

Nice to see some swimming discussion.

I'm not a swimmer but have been getting into it with a soon to be 11 year old swimmer in the family who attended his second Aggie Swim Camp this past summer. I taped the Pan Pacs but have yet to watch the whole two hours.