I'm not really jumping A&M...it does seem that this is mostly on the NCAA though

yes that was a big swim for strange...he and gardner will make up half of a big-time sprint relay next year...Brad Raiford seems to be getting significantly faster two after being out two years...hope we can keep add to it over the summer

I don't think the relays will be affected all that much...the girls' add ups in their 200's will easily place them in the A final of he 800 free relay...every other relay has prelims and we were seeded pretty high with those fall invite times to begin with...if we get crappy lanes in prelims you can bet they will swim with a chip on their shoulder

Didnt someone go a 19.7 or 19.8 last night? I cant remember who

"The road goes on forever and the party never ends."

The NCAA issued a new ruling on the controversy. Read it here.

They will seed the relays 1st from all the "legal" times. Then they will accept the "illegal" times that are faster than the slowest times "legal" times accepted. The net is a larger field for the relays.

Seems like a good decision. I think the NCAA did not want to penalize the athletes - who were not at fault. I think the NCAA also felt somewhat guilty because the open lane rule was not included in the "new rules for 2006" summary. So the coaches and conferences probably focused on the what's changed document instead of re-reading the entire rules document.

Kind of late, but a couple of quick comments.
Wow, great swims by the sprinters in austin (Strange and teammate). Excellent time for a freshman.
Nebraska was cheating, BIG TIME. No "violations" but maybe taking the whole rule book and burning it. We used to joke...they were cheating so bad, but could barely beat us.
A&M has a great pool. Austin has a great pool. Austin has one small advantage...the pool is owned by the athletic dept. which means it will always be favored for athletic events. Our pool is owned by the rec center, which means it will always be preserved for student access. Don't get me wrong, if it weren't for the Rec center, there would be no really nice pool so i'm all for it, however, what the rec center charges the teams for rent of the pool is ENORMOUS and some would consider it unreasonable (me for one). For what the mens and womens teams pay in rent (per year) they could build their own pool. Not as nice as the rec center, but nicer than the pools at a lot of schools, and they could build one EVERY YEAR. Sound expensive?
Rule changes: obviously, lots of people missed it. These events have been swum like this since the first year of the big 12's. I'm glad to see they won't be penalizing the athletes.

SprinterMike - good comments. I found that the NCAA actually punished Nebraska over the men's team.

Note - Strange's swim was in College Station.

well said on the continual rape of the swim teams by the Rec Center...I think it would be funny if the swim team decided to train in another pool say one or two days a week throughout the year just to save a couple 100,000 bucks...this sport would not exist anywhere if every school was stuck in this hostage situation...

Both swim teams are part of the Texas A&M ....and so is the Student Rec Center ...so how does this work exactly?

Did I misunderstand something or is this just a stupid situation where A&M is screwing itself to better serve itself?!?

The way I understand it is that the athletic dept. pays the Rec Center upwards of 500,000 a year (maybe even more) just to practice in their own pool...this doesn't even include hosting meets like Big 12's etc...Wouldn't hurt my feelings if the A.D. just bought the pool from the Rec and operated it separately...they would save a TON of money in the long run..The Rec can basically treat athletics like it's a money tree because there is no other truly viable alternative for the teams unless they build a new facility

While the numbers appear staggering, I honestly don't know if it really has any effect on how the programs opererate. Rec Sports charges the athletic department b/c it is one of the outside larger revenue generators on campus (example: 6 football games x 80,000 fans x $83 = $40,000,000). Rec Sports then is able to provide facilities & services to other areas that do not have the funding such as our club sports & many other programs. I hate to bring this up again, but it's where my experience is. Water Polo doesn't pay for pool time since it is housed under Rec Sports (same idea w/ rugby, lax, etc.), but these sports have very limited funds to start with & would not be able to pay. Charging the Athletic Department is one way of redistributing funds to programs that would not otherwise exist.

That being said, I have no idea how this affects the financials of the swim teams. Maybe it cuts into money that would otherwise be spent on coach's salaries, equipment, or travel. Maybe it is just an item that the Athletic Dept. knows is there, but doesn't allow it to affect other spending. Maybe it's beneficial b/c it is $X more spent on women's sports that can help balance out spending for title IX.

Basically, it looks like internal programs butting heads, but it very well might be a more beneficial & cohesive relationship than appears. That's just the optimistic view.

I believe the women didn't swim their relays over again at sectionals because the last day to qualify for NCAA's was Sunday after the Big 12s. The men get an extra week because their NCAAs is held later than the womens.

Can anyone substantiate a rumor I heard that the horns have a new swim facility in the works? The person from whom I heard this claimed part of the reason was to put them back ahead of our facility.

I believe the women didn't swim their relays over again at sectionals because the last day to qualify for NCAA's was Sunday after the Big 12s. The men get an extra week because their NCAAs is held later than the womens.

1) women were able to qualify through this past Sunday, Feb. 25; A&M's relays were all already in the meet due to their fall invite times so they didn't need to swim them again -- The men do get an extra week but it is this coming weekend, not last

2) Texas is supposedly building an outdoor pool somewhere but there are no plans to replace their indoor facility

3) With all due respect H20 Polo Ag, it is not the athletic dept.'s responsibility to keep the Rec Sports club programs afloat nor is it anyone's else's business what the athletic dept. does with the revenue they bring in at football games; the athletic dept. gets little (if any) state money whereas the rest of the university does; the athletic dept has to go out and earn it's money on its own and doesn't need to be the rich uncle for everyone else on campus...athletics has a very large staff and 19 athletic teams with state-of-the-art facilities to take care of...none of that comes on the cheap

LOB, I agree with your point & did not mean to imply that the athletic dept. had any responsibility to any other part of the university. I was just trying to highlight the fact that it is presumptuous for us, or anyone else, to assume that this is a point of contingency that causes ill will from the athletic dept. toward rec sports.

A&M prides itself on the wide range of successful programs (athletic, academic, service, etc.) and this requires a bit of the "rich uncle" approach at some point. As swimming fans, let's be honest, if it weren't for football & basketball there wouldn't be Aggie swimming. I was just taking one step further down that logic.

you are correct that without football and basketball there would be no swimming (or anything else for that matter) but swimming does fall under the athletic dept. umbrella whereas rec sports does not

I don't mean to sound ugly or sound like I'm sitting on a high horse or anything, but it seems somewhat discriminatory to charge different people different rates for pool usage just because they do or don't have the money

At the same time, I don't mean to sound defensive. Rec Sports charges less to club sports because it's housed under it's umbrella. I assume that if these sports were varsity they would be charged more for facilities, but also receive much more direct funding by being part of the athletic dept... Don't worry, I'm not trying to say that they should be varsity. I know better.

I'm splitting hairs here. The bottom line is that the rec is a great pool that should be made more accessable.

the women did not have to re swim their relays because all relays had already qualified from the fall meets, and all of the girls that would be on the relays are already swimming in the meet anyway, so they can swim all the relays there. The decision might actually help the men get the 200FrR to the meet, because by taking out the ACC relays for the initial call up, our time from Sectionals might be enough to make the cut, since it was a legal swim. If that relay makes the meet, it will be huge for the men because it gets Strange to the meet with his new B cut in the 50, and Picasso gets the 50 and 100.

As far as having to pay the rec center, I'm almost positive the basketball teams have to do the same thing for Reed Arena, since the University owns it, not the athletic dept.

texagg09 - see the post above. The NCAA issued a ruling that allowed the times from the Big12 and ACC championships to stand but they will be used after the "legal" relays are qualified first.

I don't want to bash on REC, but I do think they charge too much to the teams. The mens and womens team EACH pays 400-500K/yr rent, for a total of 800K-1mil/yr. This is on top of the fact that a. both teams pretty much use the facility at the same time, so they are paying that rent for only "half" the pool. b. all the members are students, so they are already paying rec fees.
I think it is fair to charge the teams something, but I think when you look at costs, you have to be reasonable. If A&M had the land (and you know they do) I could build the athletic dept. a really nice 8 lane, 50 meter pool, outdoors, covered, and heated, for about 500-600K(maybe less). It would have some locker rooms. It would be an excellent Practice facility, but nothing to hold world class meets in. They could then just rent the rec center for a handful of meets. The cost to operate the pool, including a full time staffer, would be less than 150K/yr. Do the math, the cost saving are ENORMOUS. The pool part of the rec center would then be out of anywhere from 700-900K/yr (probably a good part of their budget).
I don't want to bash them, but when you could build your own pool every year for what you are paying in rent, it just seems crazy. Since the rec most likely relies on this money, even though its not guaranteed, I think they should offer to freeze the rent for 15-20 years until it becomes a reasonable amount.

spice- i did see the ruling, but what alot of people fail to see, is that without the ACC times in the first mix for the call ups, our time from sectionals stands more of a chance of gettin called. If the ruling had not been made, the 1:19.90 we swam at conference would most likely not have been called up, but if you take 2 ACC teams that were faster out of the equation, it MIGHT be enough to bump the 1:19.96 into the call up spot, with those ACC teams being added in later. I know it is still a long shot, but its better than if the ruling had not been made

mike-What I was trying to say is that I don't know what agreements have been made b/t the rec and AD. Maybe the AD looked at it like this 15 years ago:

Option A: AD builds world class facility @$2.5Mil./yr over 30 yrs.

Option B: AD builds mediocre facility @$1M./yr over 30 yrs.

Option C: AD rents world class facility @$1M./yr that Rec builds for $2.5M./yr.

From these options, renting the rec for a mil a year looks like a good deal. Maybe you have more info than the rest of us. I was just trying to look past the numbers to see what the real situation might be... and playing a little devils advocate.

On the other hand. I fully agree that the rec should be more affordable for USS meets.

texagg99 - you're right. The net effect of the NCAA ruling is that the relay field will be larger than normal. More teams will qualify than normally. The NCAA will build the first list of qualifiers w/o ACC and Big12 times, which probably allows a few slower times to get in, which might help the Aggie men. Very good point...

As for Texas building another pool....I have seen a pamphlet at the facility describing the planned outdoor pool. I think Texas does not have an outdoor recreational pool now. Frat boys and SBs need a place to get a tan. The Texas pool is heavily utilized and students probably don't have much access for recreational swimming. Longhorn Aquatics (club team) has a morning practice every weekday, and probably 4 hours of afternoon and evening practice. UT's teams swim there twice a day. I've seen scuba lessons, etc. going on too.

I've spent many hours at the UT facility. I think A&M's pool is more comfortable (better seating, carpet) than UTs. The sound system is vastly better. And A&M's scoreboard is more useful although smaller. My son says A&Ms pool is colder than UTs. He thinks it is a bit too cold for his taste.

sorry texagg there's no chance for the aggie men in that relay - or any other. texas time trialed their 200 relay, so that one stays in, plus i'm pretty sure the acc relays were done legally. even if they weren't included, that would leave the aggies tied with cornell at 18th.

how were the ACC relays done legally? I thought that was the other conference besides the BigXII that open lanes were left between relays?

if i heard right - they only swam that way on the first night. then someone called to let them know they were doing it wrong.

there won't be any aggie relays at men's NCAAs this year - that's a fact. but i don't want to sound negative - and certainly not short sighted. the entire team, especially the new guys, swam out of their minds at Big 12s. the fact that the relays were even close to being picked up is a testament to the coaching staff.

200 MR - 2
400 MR - 2
200 FR - 3
400 FR - 3
800 FR - 4

out of 20 total relay spots, 14 were swum by swimmers that had never competed at big 12s. additionally, 16 were swum by returning swimmers. the other 4 were swum by picasso, and what do you know - ozzie is coming back next year after a solid year of training.

the team is looking very solid for the future. you'd have to go back over the records, but i can only think of one freshman that was faster than mr strange in the 50 - matt rose. on the same token, speaking exclusively to swimming, there may not have ever been a freshman make as big of an impact as duran mata.

some other freshman highlights:
1 school record
1 NCAA A cut
9 NCAA B cuts
2 1:39 freestylers
3 45. freestylers
4 flyers at 50. or faster
2 flyers at 1:50 or faster
3 backstrokers at 50. or faster
2 divers in big 12 finals (are they competing at zones this weekend?)

i included shawn clarke as a freshman because i want to. so there.

the only downside to next year will be the absence of eric sehn as he prepares for beijing.

if coach holmes can bring in even just one impact-type swimmer and improve these guys at the rate he's been going, these guys are going to wreck shop very soon.

The freshmen have done amazing. The only other impact freshman that comes to mind is Riley Janes. There was a strong upperclassman contingency when he came in that helped them clean up on relays. Hopefully that will be the case again in a couple years.

When do the NCAA participation lists come out?

apocolyptus - very nice analysis.

I think the mens team's biggest weakness is 100-200 freestyle. We need at least 4 guys who can consistently go 1:35-1:38 in the 200 to have a competitive 800 relay. 1:39 guys are a dime a dozen now. Texas 5A champion this year - Josh Nosal, won with a 1:38. It's been a long time since we had a guy who could go 1:35 - I don't think Sullivant could.

In the 100 we need 4 guys who can go < 45. There are middle school kids who can go 47.

I think some of our guys - like Duckworth, could get much faster since their high school. programs (New Braunfels) probably contributed very little to their training.

We have Jacobo for one more year so we have a great breastroker next year. We need a future breastroker who can go 54-55 in the 100.
So hopefully Holmes is out there recruiting these guys like mad.

I heard Duran Mata may take a year off in 2008 to swim with Mexico's team to train for the Olympics. I hope he stays with us and trains in CS instead. He is a fantastic swimmer.

Spice- i agree with you about the 200's, the men are definitly not where they need to be there, and for that 800FrR. I thought Latone would have a stronger swim in that, but I was pleased to see how Loney and Widmer stepped it up in the finals at sectionals. However, I think our 100s are a stronger point. If you look at the 400FrR, even like Apo pointed out- 3 freshman, Clarke, Widmer, Strange, splits of 43.8, 44.3, 44.6 (i know their flat starts arent that fast but still)-and I would bet that after that 50 at sects, strange could definitly be faster than that. I know thats not enough to compete at NCs right now, but I think its a solid start to build from. And I would expect nothing but continual improvement from Strange. After the offseason and summer of more weights and drylands, plus more training, he will put on the size and strength he lacks. I heard the announcer at sectionals call him "The Muscles", I dont know if thats nickname the guys have for him or what, but maybe he will live up to it. With Strange, Clarke, and Widmer stepping up as freshman, and Raiford returning to a faster version of his old self, havin Ozzie back next year will give more depth to the sprint core.

And I did hear the same thing about Duran, although obviously the coaches are pushing really hard for him to stay here. And I am not sure if the freshman divers qualified for zones or not, but they improved a tremendous amount this year, and if they continue at this rate, they will help us even more next year with Sehn gone

[This message has been edited by texagg09 (edited 3/1/2007 12:16p).]

[This message has been edited by texagg09 (edited 3/1/2007 12:19p).]

there is a very nice breaststroker from S. Africa who joined the team in January but can't compete until Jan. of 2008...we will have solid, NCAA qualifying caliber depth in the breaststroke this time next year

have we ever had anyone split a 1:35 - there are a few who would have had a shot at it... Kennedy, Mansour, Mueller, even Rose but I'm not sure they ever did.

based on what i saw on the tv coverage from Big 12 - i think we might see a 1.36 from clarke next year. he's the real deal.

Duckworth has gone 141 in the 200 and he's a freshman. Strange may not be able to stretch to the 200. His 100 is not as good as his 50.

Below is an extract from the Big12 results. Texas took it easy on us in the 200 since neither Klueh nor Weber-Gale swam it.

I may have been a bit too demanding to say we needed lots of guys around 1:35. But we definitely need ONE guy that can get an A cut and 3 other guys below 1:38.

Event 21 Men 200 Yard Freestyle

Meet: ! 1:34.47 3/3/2001 Jamie Rauch, Texas
1:35.09 AUTO
1:37.94 CONS
1:38.89 NATL
=== A - Final ===

1 McGinnis, Matth Texas 1:37.21 1:34.37!AUTO 20
2 Walters, Dave Texas 1:37.70 1:35.19 CONS 17
3 Verlatti, Ryan Texas 1:37.30 1:37.14 CONS 16
4 Harris, Jeremy Texas 1:37.67 1:37.32 CONS 15
5 Latone, Ryan JR Texas A&M 1:39.18 1:39.23 14
6 Clarke, Shawn SO Texas A&M 1:40.58 1:39.25 13
7 Dahlke, Matt SO Missouri 1:39.18 1:39.60 12
8 Widmer, Gregory FR Texas A&M 1:39.95 1:40.01 11

I don't know about splits, but I'm pretty sure that Pat Kennedy had the 200 record when he graduated. Not sure if Mueller or Rose got it after he left. Kennedy and Didium were a great mid-distance/distance combo for a few years.

It is pretty sad that A&M has never had a 1:35 when it takes that just to be on the relay some years at UT.