Do you think it is a recruiting disadvantage for Texas that the Big 12 is only the Big 3 in men's swimming?

(I read somewhere that Iowa State would be adding men's swimming in the near future.)

How loaded in high school talent is the state of Texas? My perception is that California is brimming with young talent. Is that accurate and can the same be said for Texas?

The fact that there are only three schools in the Big 12 is awful for recruiting...not only are there only three, but there is a clear separation between all three schools i.e. you know which one will finish where every year and it will be that way until either one school takes a major recruiting dip or another pulls in a killer class like Bultman did two years ago

It seems all the big-time Texas kids either go to Austin or leave the state...A&M pulls in mostly underachievers from the state and really makes them nice solid DI swimmers...The Texas club coaches need to let A&M into the conversation with their big dogs for the Aggies to get a chance at beating Texas on the men's side...I think the coaches at A&M have proven that they know how to get their kids to perform, they just need a chance with some more talented kids

I'm not sure I agree that the Big12 being the Big3 is such a big deal. I think the top kids ultimately want to swim for a program that will continue to develop them, potentially to Olympic Trials or contender. The school that can do that will have a track record - like Auburn, Stanford, Texas, etc.. Texas continues to make a killing with recruits because of Hansen, Peirsol, Crocker, Walker, etc. Those guys are still competing at an elite level. They're also Americans.

I don't think A&M has ever produced an American Olympian. Canadians, but not American.

One reason I'm not so sure of the Big3 issue is SMU. They continue to recruit well to an inferior school with mediocre facilities. Their men's team is equal or better than A&M. But maybe not for long. I'm optimistic about A&M, but I am prepared for a long journey.

Spice - Point taken about Eddie and the UT men sliding. There is no doubt that Auburn has taken over their crown. Did you mean top 5 individual? I didn't check the results that closely, but team results don't support what you said:

2007 - 5th (Auburn wins)
2006 - 4th (Auburn wins)
2005 - 7th (Auburn wins)
2004 - 3rd (Auburn wins)
2003 - 2nd (Auburn wins)
2002 - 1st
2001 - 1st
2000 - 1st

I am not, by any means, in the loop. However, my opinion is that this is not the downturn, just a lull. With their alum still training in Austin, that has to be a stsrong recruiting tool. Either way, let's look at what OUR guys can put together. It seems like we always have 1 guy (and a stable of sprinters) giving us hope. That looks to be changing a little.

H2O - I can't argue with your data. I did mean top 5 team, but I guess they've been around the top 5. But the consecutive NCs are long past.

The thing is - 5th is usually very far from 1st. Texas was supposed to be no worse than 3rd this year, but they did not swim well at NCAAs. They have Berens for 3 more years, Klueh for 2. McGinnis has one more year. Weber-Gale is gone. They will still be strong with guys like Verlatti already very fast.

But I'm sure Eddie is trying to correct whatever went wrong last season.

I agree we just need to keep working and move up. Finishing the next season solidly in the top 20 rankings would be nice.

It will be more difficult next year without Eric Sehn. The swimmers will really have to step it up to another level. Although it will be huge for NCs in C.S '09 when Sehn comes back, and the young guns continue to develop.

In case anyone is interested, J. Jackson is a REALLY COOL GUY. and is expected to BE AWESOME. He is quite a good swimmer though.

Edited to remove info that wasn't appropriate for the boards.

[This message has been edited by LaueOfficer (edited 7/3/2007 8:02p).]

wow. no one is interested in that actually.

but good job trying to slander a high school kid.

The sooner he ends his swimming career, the sooner he can start playing water polo.

Seriously, There is no room for that type of accusation of a HS kid on this board.

Sorry about that, I should have kept it private. I was speaking from personal experience with the kid (shared HS classes and lived 3 houses away), but I can see how its not cool for a community this big, ill edit the info out.

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agreed

couple things that i've been meaning to comment on. i understand the concern about smu, but we have to remember that they have a bit more history in that program than we do here. they have had 11 different national champion swimmers - starting in 1967 (last in 1998). A&M didn't SCORE at ncaas until 1983. by the way, smu has had just one school record set since 1998. we have had 10 since 2001 plus all 5 relays.

needless to say, most of smu's are faster, but it tells you a little about the direction of the programs. they've lost quite a bit this year and i think the aggies will take them down in january.

speaking of next year, i have finally heard a little bit about the men's recruits coming in next year. turns out they still had another guy they were working on who just recently agreed to sign. all they told me was that he brings the grand total to 3 for 1:52.0 or better LCM freestylers in next years class. i'm pretty sure pat kennedy, the school record holder in yards @ 1:36.8, was 1:53.3 in LCM.

swimmers like that should help disrupt the all-too-prevalent 1-2-3-4 in the 200 free for tu at conference.

there are a few other freshman as well, but i don't want to ruin the suspense.

oh, and let's not forget gardner is back. 23.6 already this summer in the 50. not to mention nathan lavery, who has been in cs since january, should be a slight help with a 1:03 LCM breastroke.

[This message has been edited by apoColyPticus (edited 7/6/2007 12:56p).]

Please tell me we signed a 56 LCM backstroker!

Or someone who can go 48 low

One hit that aggie recruiting has taken of late is that there has been reports of the program being shut down for many years.
What also hurts us is that often the in-state kids are not offered as much of a scholarship as they could get elsewhere. I know a guy(who I will not name) that was offered books, and that was it, as a 5-time 5A state champion out of a big time highschool program. The swimming community is very unique in that people from all over the state all know each other, as they've been competing since they were 8 or 9 years old, especially kids from the same school. A lot of Texas kids go to the ACC or Big Ten because they offer more teams in what seems like a more competitive environment, because like previous posters have said, it's not 1t.u., 2A&M, 3Mizzou every year.
There's also not the same issue of playing time etc. as there is in the team sports, so top athletes go to top programs without inhibition, so just about the only way to improve a program is by kids going beyond their perceived potential.

Long story short, I think offering more to in-state kids would help convince in-state kids to come here.

I heard there was a meet this weekend, any results?

yes bigpapa there was a small meet known as Senior Circuit Champs this weekend. We had some stellar performances by our aggies, both men and women. Triin Aljand swam well in all of her events with a notable swim of 25.8 in the 50 free. Nathan Lavery was a 30 in the 50 breast, Kyle Holland went 2 best times in the backstrokes with a 59.66 and 2:11.92 in the 100 and 200 back respectively. OG ozzie gardner racked up some good swimming with a 52.22 in the 100 free and a 23.8 in the 50. Casey Strange continued his hot streak with a 23.7 in the 50, 54.1 in the 100 and 1:09.8 in the 100 breast. Julia Wilkinson beat the forever famous Hayley Mcgreggory in a few events and also captured a 1:02.8 in the back. Brad Raiford seems to have popped out of the woodwork again for the first time this summer with a 24.5 in the 50 and a 27.0 in the 50 fly. He did not however swim the 100 free. Tyler Welch swam a best of 56.8 in the 100 fly. Other great swims were had by Ryan Loney and Ryan Latone. Luke Chambless swam the 100 breast and 50 breast losing to Casey Strange in a 'strange' turn of events. In other news, Brenden Hanson broke one minute in the backstroke at 59.98, making him the 1st man in the world to go sub-one minute in all 4 strokes. Also a world record would have been broken in the 50 back by Hill Taylor with a time of 24.20. He was however DQ'd due to the fact that he kicked the entire thing underwater without surfacing. Impressive kick, but bad stroke as seen in the 100 back. Neil Walker made his usual appearances as did Ian Crocker who swam the 100 Free as a 50 fly 50 free. He was 24.4 in the fly. Overall, it was a very good meet for most. Very promising results for an unrested, untapered squad. Very few, if any, aggie men actually wore any type of suit other than a practice suit(ie fast skin, fsII, etc) to compete in. Look for more great swims from the aggies as the season presses on and Nationals looms ever closer.

[This message has been edited by outside smoke (edited 7/16/2007 6:33p).]

[This message has been edited by outside smoke (edited 7/16/2007 6:38p).]

wow thanks for all the info. im guessing you were at the meet? that sounds pretty good for now in the season, it will be interesting to see the results from nationals.

so hopefully we will be seeing a press release for the new recruits...soon?

How about we get the kid in bold below!!

(Don't know how old he is or how the grades are)

Men's 100 backstroke Semifinals
North Americans ruled the roost in the men's 100 back semifinal round. Canada's Pascal Wollach topped the field with a time of 55.78, while the United States' Randall Bal and Peter Marshall tied for second with matching 56.04s to win the second heat.

Other championship finalists were Colombia's Omar Pinzon (56.26), Brazil's Leonardo Guedes (56.37), Barbados' Nicholas Alfred Neckles (56.41) and Canada's Thomas Sacco (56.60).

yea... i'm pretty sure he's 28.

Oh..haha

Ok, the search continues..

the search for a backstroker you mean? who do we have right now to swim backstoke, and whats wrong with them? cant they get faster?

That's the problem with swimming, you can only get so much better. When you get into the big times you have to be born with it too. You have to have the right body, the right mindset, the right coaching your whole life, the right workout for who you are, etc, etc, etc. The sport is VERY technique driven.

i only partly disagree. I personally think that the mental aspect of swimming is greatly underestimated by most people, athletes included. One guy could have fully "reached his full potential" (coaching, technique, training, talent, etc) according to most, but if/when he learns to take advantage of the mental side and has the desire to continue improving, he can. I know it might sound kinda cheesy, but the body will do what the mind tells it to do.

Oh and our backstrokers are Holland and Bergstrom. I dont consider Duran to be a "backstroker"

[This message has been edited by texagg09 (edited 7/25/2007 6:47p).]

I wouldn't say that...Duran is the best 200 back guy on the team (by a considerable margin I believe)...I understand your point if you're looking at it from a sprint/relay perspective

I was thinking more from the standpoint that he didnt swim either backstroke at conference. you are right tho, he did have the fastest 200back, but it was only .6 of a second faster than the next fastest

I agree with the mental side of swimming, but it is different than what most sports have with the competitive "will to win" in a game or race. While that element is there, I think the training aspect is where the mental strength really shines through.

There are definitely pure racers, but the true leaders in the sport do it day in and day out so that when they are up on the blocks they have already won the race.

Had he swam it at conference, it likely would have been a lot more than .6, but it is understandable why they didn't have him do that after he pulled off that upset of Ricky Berens in the 200 fly...he would have not had as much in the tank for the fly and he needed ever iota to beat Texas' superfrosh...that was one heck of a race

To go back to the original topic...the men got a diver (From Texas I think).
They also signed a stud breaststroker (international)
A 100-200 sprinter (international)
Another stud who does it all (many events) also international.
And a solid swimmer from here in the states who is just off of SR. nat'l times.
The three top swimmers are good enough that they should make an immediate impact on getting at least relays and possibly 1-2 individuals to NCAA's.
Holmes is also working on getting more people this summer.
I know for a fact that the mens team wants to get people from the states, and wants guys from Texas. The stigma is not gone from A&M, but is getting better, if they do solid this year, I would say look for more local pick ups at the end of the year, and a lot more next year.
right now they are just doing what they have to do.

I assume that means we didn't get a backstroker?

Another stud breaststroker or the south african that is already with the team?

Laue, I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Hard work will ultimately win over talent. Why did Duran win over Berens? Because Duran does the distance workouts butterfly. Granted he is a very talented flier, he also has a great work ethic which allowed him to win over the talented super fresh Berens. Jenny Thompson herself reached a peak a few years back. She could only go so far with her talent and only years of hard work could get her through it, to the next level. Every swimmer is talented to a different degree, but where talent trails off hard work takes over. The ability to work hard and train hard is a talent in itself. It is when athletes accept the idea of talent being supreme that we suffer some of the greatest losses in sports. Those that buy into the theory of talent ruling high level athletics never make it. They accept defeat and are content to not evolve. What matters is your adaptability, your willingness to throw away everything you know to start over when necessary. The "big times" don't require talent, they require heart, commitment and will. They necessitate courage and hunger. Can talent give those?

There is a great debate going on right now about Dara Torres. In case you haven't heard - she is 40 yrs. old, and won both the 100M free and 50M at long course nationals two weeks ago. She beat the nearest competitor by .7 secs in the 50 - a HUGE margin.

Some think Dara is juiced. Some say it is because she has always been a huge talent and her new focused training is the key. Dara has nearly perfect technique - find her 50M race on Youtube and watch it. She is 5'11 tall and incredibly efficient.

My personal opinion is that the very best swimmers - Phelps, Spitz, Thorpe, etc. have both the superior genes (height, coordination, etc.) AND great work ethic.