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It: Chapter 2

8,292 Views | 78 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Chase McGuire
Aggie_Journalist
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AG
I caught It: Chapter 2 tonight and greatly enjoyed it. I thought it was slightly more funny and less scary than Chapter 1 - Chapter 2 wasn't quite as scary as expected. The acting was top notch. I thought the ending was top notch and the theme of reconnecting with old friends gave me the feels (but I'm a sap for stuff like that!)
BenFiasco14
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AG
C@LAg said:

Giant Magic Space Turtle/Demon Spider kaiju fight?
Sadly no. On the ride home I was telling my girlfriend that a lot was different in the book and there was no way I could explain that. Just told her to read it. Haha
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
TCTTS
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This isn't one of those "How could anyone like this?" posts. I get it. The adult cast was spot on, Bill Hader, in particular, was hilarious, the effects were awesome, the production design was fantastic, etc. There was a good amount to like, and I can at least understand how all of it made for a satisfying experience.

That said, personally, I thought the movie as a whole was reeeeeaaaaally bad. Almost embarrassingly so.

First off, we were at one of the most popular theaters in LA, prime time 7 PM showing on a Friday night, opening weekend, and the theater wasn't even close to being halfway full. So right from the get-go the night just felt off. That, and I counted five people who eventually walked out over the course of the runtime and never came back - two couples and some dude, and I have to say... I was jealous of them. I lost count of how many times I checked my clock, and after two hours it was genuinely hard to imagine enduring another entire hour of this thing. If I had to pick one word to describe this movie it would be "monotonous." Excruciatingly, mind-bogglingly monotonous.

I should say that I loved the first movie. I loved that cast. But in this movie, after the 35th pointless, redundant flashback to the original cast/'80s timeline, this was exactly how I felt...



I swear, every other scene was seemingly a flashback and I'd argue that maybe two of them actually moved the plot forward in any real way, and even then it was only incrementally. Same thing in the present-day timeline. I genuinely did not understand what the story was supposed to be. I obviously understood the goal. We need to kill Pennywise or [X] will happen. Fine. Got it. But there was a good hour and forty five minutes or so after that was established where nothing happened - at least nothing of real consequence.

Like, what was everyone doing just walking around Derry and sight-seeing for what felt like the longest day known to man? And what the hell was Pennywise doing that entire time? "We have to kill Pennywise!" Then it was just... sight-seeing and reminiscing for an entire day. Then for Pennywise it was, "I have to kill these kids!" Then it was just... scaring them and antagonizing them for an entire day. Why did it take so insanely long for the plot to move forward or for anyone to actually take real action??? For some reason this movie was two hours of filler/debate/flashbacks bookended by a half-hour setup and a half-hour climax. There was no reason whatsoever it needed to be three freaking hours long.

That, and it took on this weird structure of focusing on one member of the Losers at a time, over and over and over again. I totally get that we needed to understand everyone's stakes and motivations and fears and all that, but it was done so in the most boring and repetitive way possible. After the first couple scenes of Pennywise doing his individual catered hauntings or whatever, I thought, "Ugh, we still have four more of these to go, don't we?" To the point where I was like, "Ok, Mike's turn. Let's get this one over with." And that'd be fine if any of them moved the plot forward, but again, they didn't. It was just Pennywise ******* with one of them, we see that that person is scared, then rinse and repeat over and over and over again, with him not killing any of them right then and there for some insane reason. I guess because he knew he was in a movie and couldn't do so until the third act? I just got so sick of Ben flashback / Pennywise scares Ben in present day - Beverly flashback / Pennywise scares Beverly in present day - Eddie flashback / Pennywise scares Eddie in present day - etc / etc / etc / etc / etc / etc / etc. It felt like they kept going through the roster around and around with nothing of substance truly happening.

Then, once we FINALLY got to the third act, it was not only a redo of the third act of the first movie, but attacking Pennywise's SELF-ESTEEM is what ultimately killed him? Huuuuuh??? I don't care if that was in the book or the original series (I never read the book and hardly remember the series), that was sooooo duuuuumb. It was already incredibly stupid to me that everyone genuinely believed they could kill a psycho space alien with a Native American ritual and some totems or whatever (seriously, why would a supernatural ritual kill an alien???), so I was actually relieved when that turned out to be bullish*t. I was elated, even, and ready for a truly awesome ending. But then it somehow got even dumber and they killed Pennywise with MEAN WORDS. I know he feeds off of fear or whatever, but really, that's up there with "Martha" for me in terms of stupidity.


Anyway, again, I get being entertained by the movie. I do. But for me it just got to the point that the inept pacing, structure, and logic simply outweighed the entertainment value. I really wanted this to be great, too.
TCTTS
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I was just checking the RT score - currently at 65% - and this is the first blurb I saw...

""It" never decides which fears to take at face value and which exist only in the subconscious, and winds up confused as a result."

This was another big problem I had. When the majority of the scares are simply in their heads, nothing ever felt tangible or of real consequence. To the point where I just ended up confused as hell by the climax, wondering if each scare was a real, physical threat or just something in their respective imaginations. And I honestly don't think even the movie itself knew at times.
MBAR
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I agree with a lot of what you said.


First, Bowers serves absolutely no plot purpose in this film. His inclusion does nothing to move the story along and really seems like it should have been completely cut. I assume there were other scenes with him that they cut since it was ALREADY 3 hours long and that they were forced to keep him because otherwise you have no idea why Eddie is walking around with a bandage on his face but man what a blunder for this film.

I also hated the ending. They basically were mean to Pennywise and that killed him. I get the running gag throughout the movie but honestly this ending was amazingly bad. I then could have used so much less of the after showing everyone happy and the stupid letters they got in the mail. That was all beyond corny for me.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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TCTTS said:



Then, once we FINALLY got to the third act, it was not only a redo of the third act of the first movie, but attacking Pennywise's SELF-ESTEEM is what ultimately killed him? .


In the book, they bully Pennywise and he develops an eating disorder. Years later, when he's on his way to becoming a successful dermatologist, a classmate jokes about him eating a second piece of cake at an office birthday party, Pennywise flashes back to the night the Losers' Club called him "Porkywise" and breaks down. He has to drop out of grad school and winds up moving back home.
Not a Bot
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While I agree that the movie was repetitive, especially in the second act, I personally was never bored. I thought the pacing was fine. I love these characters and how they were portrayed, so getting to see more of them as kids in the flashbacks was fun to me.

In terms of the plot I tend to like dumb movies. At the end of the day this is a movie about a cosmic space spider crashing into earth, eventually taking the form of a clown and torturing a small town every 27 years. Whatever solution they come up with to kill It is going to be pretty stupid because the entire premise of the plot is stupid.

The book ending was just as bad. Mike gets attacked by Bowers and doesn't even make it into the cave. If I'm remembering correctly (I read the book just before the first movie came out) Bill discovers the banishment ritual when he has a vision of the cosmic space battle. The ritual in the book required them to bite It's tongue and tell him jokes. Eventually they weaken It enough and Bill beats It to death.

I don't know how the TV movie handled the ending, I never saw it.




John Matrix
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I'm going to agree with a lot of people here in saying It chapter 2 is flawed, but sticks the landing emotionally, despite the fact that some of the scares don't work. It's really good, just not necessarily great.

Like the first film, the losers are great in this. Hader was particularly funny, and his character beats worked so well.

One thing I loved about this is how BIG it is in terms of effects and ideas. This is truly a blockbuster horror film in terms of budget, and it feels like it. There's about 8 different variation of It monsters here, and it's s blast to watch them all.

The main issue here is really the only issue I had with the first one as well: as cool as the monsters are, it's just not very scary. The novel is one of my favorites, and even as an adult, scary as hell. While the monsters are cool, there's s Nightmare on Elm Street semi-playful Vibe here that just doesn't measure up to the novel. Also, the editing I n sections is super suspect. One scene in particular-when Mike and Bill go back to the hotel to gather the losers-was confusing as he'll because I literally had no idea how any of the characters got there.

Regardless, the themes and ideas and characters in this are perfectly executed. Like the novel, the clown and monster shenanigans are all done in the service of a simple theme-childhood is often frightening and leaves scars that don't go away with adulthood, with the only way to move past those Is confrontation . Yeah, we may not be fighting murderous, supernatural clowns as kids, but there's always something that we carry with us, no matter how much we try to forget. Both this film and the novel understand that friends and family are then est way to confront those destructive demons. This film, in particular, nails this, which makes me overlook the lack of true scares here.

In the end, this is s clawed, entertaining, and ambitious film that is totally worth going to see.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Disclosure - I have not seen either movie, but am a big classic King fan who first read IT at 14. Like a lot of his stuff, the stuff that's really scary is how well he writes what people are seeing and thinking and feeling at the times of the biggest scares, and you just can't translate that to film - his way of writing about things that you don't want to think about and things that haunt you for the rest of your life is so unique and so visceral. The book versions of It, Cujo, The Shining, all really lose something in translation to film.
BenFiasco14
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There were some nods to book fans that I appreciated that otherwise made no sense in the movie or just people wouldn't notice. Beverly says "beep beep" to Richie at one point, and It at the end says "I am the destroyer of worlds" probably some other nods I missed. I'm glad Paul Bunyan made it in but it was. A lot scarier in the book imo.
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nai06
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I thought it was awful.

Waaaayyy too long.

A few points some of which others have echoed:

1. the flashbacks were all over the place and often didn't seem to serve a purpose in terms of plot or character development.

2. A minor gripe since it cut some time from the film. Every character experiences a flashback scare from pennywise as well as one in present day EXCEPT for Ben. He just remembers the locker scene and walks away. Im not sure if it was filmed and cut or never written.

3. The bowers story line was unnecessary and didnt add to the film.

4. So much was put into the native ritual for it to be a bust and then to have SAY MEAN THINGS be the way to kill pennywise

5. Stephen Kings cameo was unnecessarily long. I think it would have been fine for him to peak his head over reading the book and say, "Its 300 bucks" and that it.

6. So many flashbacks of kids riding bikes


I understand that most of these critiques are related to length. I just felt like they could have tightened it up a bit from a storytelling viewpoint.
montegobay
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Just saw the movie. Thought it was great! Those of you who think it should be shorter might want to try reading the book! It's around 1000 pages long. They tightened it up as much as they could without cutting out key parts of the story. I feel like most people who thought it was too long or were disappointed wanted to see more slashing and less plot.
TCTTS
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montegobay said:

Just saw the movie. Thought it was great! Those of you who think it should be shorter might want to try reading the book! It's around 1000 pages long. They tightened it up as much as they could without cutting out key parts of the story. I feel like most people who thought it was too long or were disappointed wanted to see more slashing and less plot.

I wanted more plot. That was the problem. This movie is a beginning and an ending with two hours of filler/no plot whatsoever in between.
MBAR
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montegobay said:

Just saw the movie. Thought it was great! Those of you who think it should be shorter might want to try reading the book! It's around 1000 pages long. They tightened it up as much as they could without cutting out key parts of the story. I feel like most people who thought it was too long or were disappointed wanted to see more slashing and less plo
Filler =! plot
Brian Earl Spilner
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Damn, more and more I find myself on the opposite of TC's opinion on a movie. I don't know if it's ever happened to this extent though.

I loved the middle act.

The artifacts might not have a played a role in defeating Pennywise, but the purpose of it was always clear to me. It was to have them remember their experiences. Because don't forget that their memories were still incomplete before the final showdown.

And they needed to get to that place, emotionally, to actually defeat him in the end.
TCTTS
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Still, it didn't need to take two hours of screen time for them to remember. They all mostly remembered relatively soon anyway. And it's not just me, btw, who didn't like this movie. It's at 65% on RT. That's... not good.

How did Mike get everyone to come back initially, anyway? They said he "lied" to them, but it was never said what, exactly, he told them to convince them to come home. Mike's generic/ominous "You need to come home. It's important," followed by everyone immediately dropping everything they were doing, and yet still not remembering the clown until after that first dinner, was so wonky and weird. Maybe my problem is with the book as well, if that's how it goes, because, "Come home now," "Ok, where here," "Remember the clown?" "Oh, God, yes," followed by two hours of, "Ok, now you need to REALLY remember the clown" is just a dumb plot, straight up.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Meh, RT is really kind of irrelevant when it comes to how I feel about movies.

Captain Marvel was in the 90's, wasn't it? And God I hated that movie.
Philip J Fry
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Saw it today. Kind of wish I had those two hours back.
Johnsy3
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Only 2 of the hours?
Urban Ag
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I don't have a dog in this fight. I didn't see the last one and I haven't seen part 2. I would like to say this.

Saturday night was a really cool experience for me as a dad. I've posted before that my older boy (almost 14) loves movies. Like probably TCCTS, Muck, Cinco, or BES, level "loves" movies. Next to athletics, it's probably his favorite pastime. He's just in to it.

So our son wants to see It2 with his buddies and the wife and I talked it over and decided we were ok with it even though it's rated R. I mean, I guess we have to come to grips with the fact he's a teenager now. So I went and picked up a couple of his friends and bought the tickets. Another parent volunteered to go in and sit away from them so as to not cramp their style.

HIs friend's mom dropped him off back at the house around 9:45. That kid was smiling from ear to ear. He absolutely loved it. Reading the criticisms, he probably was just a lot more excited about the experience than the movie itself, he actually has pretty good taste in films. But he was just so excited. First scary movie experience in the theatre with friends. Made me really happy to see him so stoked.

I think it's great that young people like that still go to the actual theatre and enjoy movies together. Really made my day.
Urban Ag
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Meh, RT is really kind of irrelevant when it comes to how I feel about movies.

Captain Marvel was in the 90's, wasn't it? And God I hated that movie.
I tried to watch it on a flight which was awesome because I fell asleep about 40 minutes in and I needed the sleep.
TXAG 05
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Urban Ag said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Meh, RT is really kind of irrelevant when it comes to how I feel about movies.

Captain Marvel was in the 90's, wasn't it? And God I hated that movie.
I tried to watch it on a flight which was awesome because I fell asleep about 40 minutes in and I needed the sleep.


It wasn't great, but still better than Black Panther
FTACO97
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I dunno...I still don't get the negative reviews of the film. Most of those who don't like it also claim they loved the first one but completely tear this one apart. To me, this film was exactly what I would expect as a sequel to the first.

As for some spoiler-ish notes:

The film establishes from the get-go that no one but Mike remembers what happened when they were kids. Mike remembers because he never left Derry. The whole middle of this film is all the characters slowly remembering what It did to them with their fear. They have to remember all of this so that they can kill him. I was not bored at all with the film at any part and was completely drawn into the story.

That was the whole point of the story, they made the pact at the end of the first one that if he returns in 27 years, so will they and they'll kill him. What else does the plot need? What furthering do you need laid out for you?

Also keep seeing a complaint of what threat is real and what isn't. Just about everything It does is to feed on your fear. Most of it is not real, it's in their minds. It's all to scare them and increase fear. I thought that was established pretty well in the first one. Not sure why it's a question now.


Also, the critic side of RT sits at 65% but the audience is at 80%. Doesn't sound bad from the audience side of things.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Urban Ag said:

I don't have a dog in this fight. I didn't see the last one and I haven't seen part 2. I would like to say this.

Saturday night was a really cool experience for me as a dad. I've posted before that my older boy (almost 14) loves movies. Like probably TCCTS, Muck, Cinco, or BES, level "loves" movies. Next to athletics, it's probably his favorite pastime. He's just in to it.

So our son wants to see It2 with his buddies and the wife and I talked it over and decided we were ok with it even though it's rated R. I mean, I guess we have to come to grips with the fact he's a teenager now. So I went and picked up a couple of his friends and bought the tickets. Another parent volunteered to go in and sit away from them so as to not cramp their style.

HIs friend's mom dropped him off back at the house around 9:45. That kid was smiling from ear to ear. He absolutely loved it. Reading the criticisms, he probably was just a lot more excited about the experience than the movie itself, he actually has pretty good taste in films. But he was just so excited. First scary movie experience in the theatre with friends. Made me really happy to see him so stoked.

I think it's great that young people like that still go to the actual theatre and enjoy movies together. Really made my day.
You need to get a Pennywise mask and wake him up at 3 a.m. tomorrow screaming "I MISSED YOU!" and see how much he likes it then.
TCTTS
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AG
As much as I disliked the movie myself, that's so cool to hear. Echoing your sentiment that it's awesome - a relief, even - that teens his age still enjoy not only the theatrical experience, but having that experience together.
Urban Ag
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TCTTS said:

As much as I disliked the movie myself, that's so cool to hear. Echoing your sentiment that it's awesome - a relief, even - that teens his age still enjoy not only the theatrical experience, but having that experience together.
He follows your upcoming release thread and he literally has the entire year, month by month, planned out as to which movies he wants to see in the theatre. It helps that my wife's dad is a movie theatre junkie too cause he's always up for a movie with the grandsons.
TCTTS
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That's so awesome to hear. Glad someone's getting some use out of that thing.
Saxsoon
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My regal did the most hilarious thing. On stands they tied a big red balloon to it and pushed it out so you couldn't see the employees and it looked like red balloons appeared at the exits of the theater during the last five minutes

Also I have thought on it more and I think I know why the disconnected nature of the various scares didnt bother me. Each individual scene could be a segment in an anthology with the story being the wrap around. I love horror anthology shows with the wrap around nature. Vhs and the like
Brian Earl Spilner
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Same here.

It's almost like the episodes of Haunting of Hill House, focusing on one of the siblings.
Rex Racer
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Saxsoon said:

My regal did the most hilarious thing. On stands they tied a big red balloon to it and pushed it out so you couldn't see the employees and it looked like red balloons appeared at the exits of the theater during the last five minutes

Also I have thought on it more and I think I know why the disconnected nature of the various scares didnt bother me. Each individual scene could be a segment in an anthology with the story being the wrap around. I love horror anthology shows with the wrap around nature. Vhs and the like
When we left the theater, one of the Cinemark employees that was cleaning up had a red balloon. It was funny because I was telling my wife, "They should have somebody out here with a red balloon," just a second before.
wangus12
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Out Mag Cries Pennywise Isn't Pro-Gay, Blames Trump

TCTTS
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Good to see this article getting all the sh*t it deserves on Twitter.
BenFiasco14
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Why would you want a homicidal shape shifting monster space alien to be on your "team"?
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
Noblemen06
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The worm needs to turn on this societal trend already - it has to be exhausting to search for the faintest of boogeymen in everything that should be bringing entertainment and joy into your life.
Fairview
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Snuck out and saw a matinee with my wife today while the kids were in school. Count me in the category of liking it a lot and not thinking it was too long at all.
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