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Lance Armstrong 30 / 30 VS. MJ's The Last Dance

5,172 Views | 53 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Aggie12B
aTmAg
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AG
How was he an ass before he got exposed? I'm not too familiar with him other than the cycling and cheating.
94DallasAG
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AG
As far as I know, everyone who's "lives he destroyed" were in some way connected to the doping. From the riders to the woman he called a *****. From my perspective, once you cross that line all bets are off and therfore I don't feel too sorry for them.

Lance was win at all costs, much like most elite athletes out there. I'll bet if you honestly tested the NFL you'd see a huge number doping. If an athlete can gain any advantage they will.

As he stated, once the ball got rolling he couldn't stop for the damage it would do to the foundation. In that regard I understand why he did it - lied so vigorously. People are quick to forget how much good he did with the foundation. And for that matter, his teammates who I'm sure profited off his exposure. And the Tour. And all of the sponsors.

I'm not saying he's a Saint but we routinely hear about others who have "redeemed thremselfs" and get a second chance. Vick to name just one. Why is it Lance is not given the same treatment? He never physically harmed anyone. Yet every year it seems like the NFL, and the NBA, or other leagues reinstate guys that did much worse - domestic abuse, etc.


fig96
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AG
94DallasAG said:

As far as I know, everyone who's "lives he destroyed" were in some way connected to the doping. From the riders to the woman he called a *****. From my perspective, once you cross that line all bets are off and therfore I don't feel too sorry for them.
Wow, that's weak.

The woman that eventually spilled was a massuese for the team that ended up being roped into transporting drugs. She left the team and decided to tell the truth, and he called her a ***** and an alcoholic, sued her for libel and tried to bankrupt her.

In no world are those things equivalent.
oragator
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Ask David Walsh whether he deserved what happened to him.
dcAg
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Exactly oragator. Lance is a piece of eff*** $***!!!

He ruined so many peoples lives just because they didnt bow to him.

He got cancer because of his "doping" especially in his using HGH. Then he hid behind the veil of cancer to make himself feel like a sympathetic character even though it was his own fault that he got cancer.

He was caught because:
1) He was an arrogant p**** and couldnt stand to stay out of the spotlight.
2) He was a bully and finally one guy had enough of his BS.

If he wouldve retired and walked off into the sunset he wouldve not been outed.

He hasnt changed one bit. He wondered why people still like Hincapie but hate him. WHAT AN A**H***!!! He will never change.
Comanche
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AG
TCTTS - it's postoperative delirium called sundowning; its a very real thing.
TCTTS
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AG
Yes, that was it. One of my sisters is a nurse and I'm pretty sure that's what she called it. Thanks for the clarification.
AgGrad99
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AG
Teddy Perkins said:

I understand he rubs most people the wrong way, including my wife, and he is certainly ruthless, flawed, and egotistical. But damn, if I didn't find myself liking him more after watching this. Maybe it's his Texas roots but to me he came across as incredibly honest and self-aware.
...
The 30 for 30 also made me realize that all of the cyclists were doping at that level. Considering that, Lance's accomplishments, while tarnished, are still incredibly impressive and I'll still consider him one of the greatest cyclists of all time.
I kind of felt the same way.

I didnt really like him more per-se'...he came off as his normal 'jerk/bully' self. But regarding his self awareness, I completely agree. He owns it all...warts and all. He seems to have come to grips with it all, whether or not he agrees with the outcomes.

And it just reiterated what I thought about him all along, as an athlete. The playing field was level, and he was head and shoulders above everyone else, and a complete freak of nature.

It also kinda made me sympathize with his situation a bit. They were all guilty. They all admit that. Every single one of them. But some are still viewed as heros, while some are viewed as a disgrace. It's hard to blame it all on his attitude, when guys like Ulrich and Pantani paid a much heavier price than their own contemporaries. Society likes to build them up, to tear them down. Lance was no exception, and he made matters worse by being a jerk to everyone.

I thought it was a fascinating documentary...just like The Last Dance.

The one thing I took from both of them....I could not be friends with Lance or Michael. Their personalities are way to overbearing.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Well that's not the story I expected when I opened this thread. Holy *****
AgGrad99
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AG

Quote:

He was caught because:
1) He was an arrogant p**** and couldnt stand to stay out of the spotlight.
2) He was a bully and finally one guy had enough of his BS.
They talked quite a bit about this . The reason he got caught really didnt have anything to do with Lance. Landis was just upset he'd stayed quiet, and then wasnt allowed to join the new team when his suspension was up.

Because they were a new team, they didnt have a contract with the tour, and had to be invited. They couldnt get an invite if Landis was on the team. He was just mad at the world because he'd served his time and found out he was still black-balled.

Lance was definitely a turd, but Landis was just mad at the cycling world, and took down who he could. It's why they all got taken down, not just Lance. Lance was just the big fish.
Counterpoint
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TCTTS said:

Really, thats not even the half of it. It was so crazy, and I'm seriously going to turn their trip into a movie someday...

My dad had knee surgery - an old football injury that finally got the best of him - that January, just so he could be ready to ride for the trip in August. So he basically had knee surgery only to have a huge wreck that required hip and lung surgery. But at 67 years old, he at least completed one of the toughest stages of the Tour, and I think it was all still worth it in his mind.

But my mom and my aunt were on a river cruise somewhere near Amsterdam when it happened. They were going to meet my dad, his buddy, and his buddy's wife in Paris, but then my mom got the call that he was in the hospital two days into the cruise and she and my aunt had to planes, trains, and automobiles it hundreds of miles, spur of the moment, without speaking a lick of any of the languages. She and my aunt finally made it, though, but when they got there, my dad had already gone crazy. She would send us videos, and he was 100% coherent, and could carry on a conversation, no problem, but was simply convinced that A) his attendant was a terrorist with a removable leg that turned into a gun, and B) that ALL of my dad's extended family and friends had flown out to surprise him and be with him post surgery. But he was SO PISSED because he thought everyone was hiding in the cafeteria for the surprise and wouldn't come up to see him. So, in addition to all the terrorist texts, I would get texts at like 4 AM asking, "Teddy, where are you?" And when I'd explain to him that I was still in America, he would literally just type back, "F/ck you!" It was soooo bizarre, but again, also hilarious. Then he finally snapped out of it, and was back to normal like nothing happened.

Anyway, I feel like there's a movie there, where a hard core Republican gets stuck for weeks in a French, socialist hospital and literally goes crazy, after accomplishing a lifetime cycling goal in this idyllic setting... all because of his obsession with Lance f/cking Armstrong back in the day. There's also this side story where my aunt had to catch her plane home in Paris, got all the way there, in line at the airport, when she realized that her and my mom had mixed up their passports. So my aunt, who had literally never left the states before, was stuck in Paris alone for two days while her passport was mailed, and that was a whole adventure in and of itself, having no idea how to navigate the city and everything that went with that.

There would be so much to draw from.
Wow, that's awesome (especially since he's back to normal). But people won't believe it's a true story!
Southlake
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94DallasAG said:

As far as I know, everyone who's "lives he destroyed" were in some way connected to the doping. From the riders to the woman he called a *****. From my perspective, once you cross that line all bets are off and therfore I don't feel too sorry for them.

Lance was win at all costs, much like most elite athletes out there. I'll bet if you honestly tested the NFL you'd see a huge number doping. If an athlete can gain any advantage they will.

As he stated, once the ball got rolling he couldn't stop for the damage it would do to the foundation. In that regard I understand why he did it - lied so vigorously. People are quick to forget how much good he did with the foundation. And for that matter, his teammates who I'm sure profited off his exposure. And the Tour. And all of the sponsors.

I'm not saying he's a Saint but we routinely hear about others who have "redeemed thremselfs" and get a second chance. Vick to name just one. Why is it Lance is not given the same treatment? He never physically harmed anyone. Yet every year it seems like the NFL, and the NBA, or other leagues reinstate guys that did much worse - domestic abuse, etc.



If Vick had won 7 Superbowls while doping, it would be a different story...
BusterAg
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AG
Lot's of former Chicago Bulls players say that the Last Dance was a bit egotistical for Jordan, but I would expect that.

Also, I still think that Jordan got caught betting against the game, and that is what killed his dad. Just too much smoke there for it not to be a story. My hope is that the truth comes out clearly someday.

Finally, I really liked this write-up on Jordan / Bird: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/sideline-cut-vignette-shows-why-bird-is-the-true-shark-in-the-last-dance-1.4260209

Not that I don't really, really love Jordan. Mr. Fundamental. 1,000 shots a day. I'm a huge fan. Just not as big of a fan as Jordan is.
expresswrittenconsent
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Yes, murders happen all the time when you get caught "betting against the game".
dcAg
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AgGrad,
You are wrong. If Lance hadnt been such a d*** to everyone he wouldve gotten a pass by Landis. Especially since Lance was coacking Landis on how to act to protect himself.

If Lance hadnt been such an ego-maniac he wouldnt have tried a comeback. His arrogance also reared up and said that the guys that won since he retired were not worthy of it as he had been.
dragmagpuff
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Didn't when Lance got stripped of his titles, they had to go down to like, 67th place or something to find a non-doper?

If you like watching stuff about cyclists doping, I highly recommend Icarus on Netflix.
AgGrad99
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AG
dcAg said:

AgGrad,
You are wrong. If Lance hadnt been such a d*** to everyone he wouldve gotten a pass by Landis. Especially since Lance was coacking Landis on how to act to protect himself.

If Lance hadnt been such an ego-maniac he wouldnt have tried a comeback. His arrogance also reared up and said that the guys that won since he retired were not worthy of it as he had been.
I mean...maybe I am, but im going based on what the riders themselves said. Whether Lance was a jerk or not, Landis was just ticked he was still blackballed after his suspension...
Bockaneer
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AG
I'm picturing Bill Murray in a Wes Anderson film...
claym711
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Y'all are in a bubble of ignorance. All the best in every profession from sports to business to politics bent or broke every rule and steam rolled anyone in the way. Some just never get caught or are powerful enough to dodge the consequences.
Aggie12B
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If You want some juvenile laughs about bike racing, you should watch Tour de Pharmacy. Here is a trailer:
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