This hasn't been an issue until this showdown, but if Goodfellas pulls out the win, I don't know if I can give Scorsese the win based on that alone. I may have to add up votes for the top 4 movies of each director to declare a winner, since Kubrick has been winning every step of the way until now.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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This hasn't been an issue until this showdown, but if Goodfellas pulls out the win, I don't know if I can give Scorsese the win based on that alone. I may have to add up votes for the top 4 movies of each director to declare a winner, since Kubrick has been winning every step of the way until now.

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It's an interesting dilemma I suppose.

Because judging directors by head to head films when something is so good like Goodfellas but the body of work of the other guy is so good across the board is maybe not the best way. but I didn't question it when this started.

If it was a vote the way I did the decades for example - by a group of films - it might be different.

If you ask me even using their top 5 let's say

Kubrick: 2001, A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Doctor Strangelove, Full Metal Jacket
vs
Scorsese: Goodfellas, Taxi Driver, The Departed, Raging Bull, Wolf of Wall Street

It's Kubrick all day.

but even I had to vote for Goodfellas head to head.

Two teams playing in the finals that goes 7 games. Team A loses, but in their 3 wins, won each game by at least 20 points. Team A also went 2-0 against Team B in the regular season, winning both games in blow outs. Team B wins the championship, but in their 4 wins, each game was won by 3 points or less. Who's the better team: the team that win the finals or the team that scored the most points (by a wide margin) in the 9 games played?

Bruce Almighty said:

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Two teams playing in the finals that goes 7 games. Team A loses, but in their 3 wins, won each game by at least 20 points. Team A also went 2-0 against Team B in the regular season, winning both games in blow outs. Team B wins the championship, but in their 4 wins, each game was won by 3 points or less. Who's the better team: the team that win the finals or the team that scored the most points (by a wide margin) in the 9 games played?

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that's not exactly the case here... not a great analogy. It's not like a playoff series between teams. It is more like a series of games between teams of the same conference.

in round 1 it was 4-4 tied each with one blowout Scorsese's was bigger but Kubrick nearly pulled off an upset
in round 2 it was 3-1 kubrick with 2 close and the other by a bigger margin than the one Scorsese win.
in semifinals it was 1-1 tied but again with Kubrick having the bigger margin of victor (over his own film)

Overall Kubrick leads 8-6 probably ends up 8-7. But total votes is likely Kubrick despite the 99-1 drubbing in the first round that Goodfellas enjoyed.

If the SEC had a similar football tourney vs the ACC and had 3 of the final four even if Clemson wins it all... which is the best conference? Clemson is the best team, but LSU, Bama and UGA make the SEC the better conference.


For comparison: If Best Director is supposed to just go to the director of the Best Picture then Coppola would be it but he isn't even in this contest.

My first attempt was to do the following:

5 points for each Round 1 win.
10 points for each Round 2 win.
15 points for each Round 3 win.
20 points for the Final winner.

That would put our current standings at:
Kubrick - 65
Scorsese - 45

Which means a Goodfellas win would get us a tie at 65 points.

In case of a tie, I'd be inclined to give Kubrick the win based on the consolation winner being a Kubrick film. Any objections?

If not, I could just add up vote totals for each movie, average them out, and then get an average for each director. Though, I don't love that mainly because some rounds got a lot more votes than others and that kind of throws it off.

does that method change any of the other results?

Not sure, haven't tried it.

Guess I'll give that a shot and see what happens.

It is obvious you don't think Scorcese should win despite how the voting turned out in head to head matches.

Why ask?

Just give the win Kubrick

I think Kubrick is a better director overall, but you set up the voting and don't like the result.

Guess I gotta give it to Scorsese now since Tanya is mad.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Guess I gotta give it to Scorsese now since Tanya is mad.

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Nope

Not at all.

You just don't like the result

It is your poll. Do what you want

(For the record, this thing is far from over and might not even be an issue. We'll cross the votes bridge if we even get to it.)

I'm not lobbying to change the voting - it is what it is. Knew it would go this way when it was set up.

Here are some stats through the semifinal round:

Movie - Total Votes - Average Per Round

Scorsese
1. Goodfellas -------------------154 -- 51
2. Taxi Driver -------------------88 -- 44
3. The Departed ---------------78 -- 39
4. Raging Bull -------------------77 -- 39
5. The Wolf of Wall Street --47 -- 47
6. The Aviator ------------------42 -- 42
7. The Irishman ---------------19 -- 19
8. Casino ------------------------34 -- 34

Total - 539
Average per film - 39

Kubrick
1. The Shining -------------------126 -- 42
2. 2001: A Space Odyssey ---122 -- 41
3. A Clockwork Orange -------99 -- 33
4. Dr. Strangelove --------------71 -- 36
5. Eyes Wide Shut --------------30 -- 30
6. Full Metal Jacket -------------49 -- 49
7. Spartacus ----------------------31 -- 31
8. Barry Lyndon ------------------1 ---1

Total - 529
Average per film - 33

So even though Kubrick has won more matchups, he has actually averaged less votes per film and garnered 10 less votes overall. (Thanks to a huge Scorsese blowout, and some very close losses.)

In short, there is no reason to give either director an advantage based on voting.

The winner of the final is the winner of this tourney.

Wow this nerded out real quick. Let me add some more to the stew...

Take the same 8 films for each director, except swap out Barry Lyndon for Paths of Glory and The Irishman for Gangs of New York.

Put those 16 films in 1 bucket and have people rank their top 10, #1 gets 10 points, #2 gets 9, etc.

If you did that, why limit it to 16? Just have people put their top 10. I doubt it'd get much past 16 anyway.

This is probably the biggest "handicap" in these matchups thus far. Limiting it to 8 movies per director means we're only getting the best movies per director (except those with small filmographies like QT or Kubrick), and ignoring the bad ones.

This would've hurt Spielberg and Ridley Scott quite a bit.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Final:
1. Goodfellas vs 1. The Shining

Consolation:
2. 2001: A Space Odyssey vs 3. A Clockwork Orange

Vote now!

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Bumping link to this page. I'll leave the voting open till tomorrow morning.

Bunk Moreland said:

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Wow this nerded out real quick. Let me add some more to the stew...

Take the same 8 films for each director, except swap out Barry Lyndon for Paths of Glory and The Irishman for Gangs of New York.

Put those 16 films in 1 bucket and have people rank their top 10, #1 gets 10 points, #2 gets 9, etc.

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I agree - Paths of Glory has to be on there, but haven't seen Barry Lyndon

Two votes of separation in the final matchup. Get your votes in if you haven't already!

Vote now!

Setting a hard stop at noon ET in the interest of fairness and objectivity.

Wow! We have a tie, folks!

Final:
1. Goodfellas (50%)
vs
1. The Shining (50%)

Consolation:
2. 2001: A Space Odyssey (76.3%)
vs
3. A Clockwork Orange (23.7%)

Updated voting stats below (not counting consolation match):

Scorsese
1. Goodfellas -------------------174 -- 44
2. Taxi Driver -------------------88 -- 44
3. The Departed ---------------78 -- 39
4. Raging Bull -------------------77 -- 39
5. The Wolf of Wall Street --47 -- 47
6. The Aviator ------------------42 -- 42
7. The Irishman ---------------19 -- 19
8. Casino ------------------------34 -- 34

Total - 559
Average per film - 38

Kubrick
1. The Shining -------------------146 -- 37
2. 2001: A Space Odyssey ---122 -- 41
3. A Clockwork Orange -------99 -- 33
4. Dr. Strangelove --------------71 -- 36
5. Eyes Wide Shut --------------30 -- 30
6. Full Metal Jacket -------------49 -- 49
7. Spartacus ----------------------31 -- 31
8. Barry Lyndon ------------------1 ---1

Total - 549
Average per film - 32


There doesn't appear to be a great way to break the tie here. Kubrick won more matchups, but Scorsese garned more votes and averaged more votes. (But again, early rounds had considerably more votes, so it kind of skews that data.)

Therefore, for the purposes of this particular tournament, I'm officially declaring a tie between Kubrick and Scorsese.




However... that does leave the question of which one of the two directors should move on to the final Directors Tournament. Since there is no clear tiebreaker, I've decided to open a poll to decide this.

You are not voting on a particular movie, or even on the 8 movies listed here, but on the two directors themselves. (And their entire bodies of work.)

So consider all the movies that were not included here. (For Scorsese -- Shutter Island, Gangs of NY, etc. For Kubrick -- Paths of Glory, Lolita, etc.)

Gonna let this one go until a clear winner emerges, however long that takes. Might be a short one or it might be till tomorrow.

Vote here on who moves on.