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GOT final season...did the main writers die?

5,157 Views | 50 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by bluefire579
Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Fat Bib Fortuna • 11:54p, 8/16/21
AG
Fat Bib Fortuna said:
tv1113 said:
DannyDuberstein said:
It was like watching 2 different shows. 6-7 seasons of hbo greatness. 1-2 seasons of Cliffs Notes


If you want to have Dany flip out you could have done at least a few things to actually make it plausible.

.


1) Watches and does not bat an eye when her own brother is being burned alive by molten gold.
2) Makes a deal with the merchants - dragons for Unsullied, then goes back on the deal and butchers every last one of them.
3) Crucifies the Wise Masters of Mereen
4) Burns the Dothraki Lords alive when she could have easily just walked out the door.
5) Annihilates every single man in the Lannister army during the attack on the loot train
6) Murders Randall and Dickon Tarly when she could have taken them prisoner.
7) Tries to put Jamie Lannister on trial for murdering her psycho dad when he shows up at Winterfell




Not a single one of those sets up her choice to murder every man, woman, and child in King's Landing rather than going straight for the Red Keep and killing Cersei, who literally just killed her closest friend and confidant. She could have been chilling on the Iron Throne by about noon.

But she preferred to be queen of the ashes, the exact thing she said she wasn't here to do.

On the bright side, Anakin's sudden turn to killing younglings doesn't look quite so bad anymore.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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7:53a, 8/17/21
They all set up her choice. Each one gives her permission to go to the next level of abuse of power and justify it her own mind. But Cersei didin't kill Missandei, the Mountain did. Just like he killed her mother. And she lost one of her children (the dragon) to Euron Greyjoy. And she indirectly lost her father figure (Jorah Mormont) due to the lies of Cersei that she would bring her armies North and then didn't do it. So every Lannister soldier and supporter, age and gender regardless, had become her enemy. So it seems really clear her intent was to wipe the name "Lannister" from the face of the earth by any means necessary.

Strategy wise, I equate it to the dropping of the bombs on Japan at the end of WWII. The US could have kept throwing troops and ships and planes at Japan and eventually forced them to surrender, but they had their own Drogon, 2 of them actually, waiting to win the war in few minutes, but at the cost of hundreds of thousands of civilian lives - hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Dany was down to one dragon with no way of producing more, and she was fueled by rage with no one left to show her reason - Jon tried, but he had rebuffed her attempts to continue their relationship so she no longer respected him; Tyrion tried, but he looked like an ass clown for trusting Cersei; Jorah, Varys, and Missandei were dead, and Grey Worm wanted vengeance, maybe even more than she did.

I agree 100% that the writers did a terrible job of showing it, and I haven't watched one minute of the final season other than to make the entries for the GOT Moments contest earlier this year, but her tumble into madness was all there - it was just hard to notice because she was such a likable character (and very hot).
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hunter2012
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8:19a, 8/17/21
AG
It was a dark fantasy show, I honestly think one thing would have fixed the feel and the narrative the rest of the way. At the battle of Winterfell, I think a major missed opportunity would have been to have Arya kill the night king and have the rest of the whitewalkers still standing there instead of going phantom menace. It would have subverted the queen bee trope in a horrific way and could have easily been one of the most talked about twists in the show. Frankly after all the wars and inter-family murder. I think a fighting retreat out of Westeros would have made a better story than the ending we got. End it with a handful of them alive with a bittersweet ending rather than the "let's just elect a king and be egalitarian now".
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PeekingDuck
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1:53p, 8/17/21
AG
It is still quite stunning that the last season was so bad that it killed a global phenomenon. I mean, that's hard to do. It isn't even really considered anymore as a thing. It just... was.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to PeekingDuck • 2:26p, 8/17/21
AG
It's kinda sad. For how massively popular it was, it's crazy how quickly that positive sentiment disappeared.

That said, I'm hoping the new series will have a similar effect that Mandalorian did for Star Wars.

Great opportunity to get people excited about Westeros again.

(And similarly for the new LOTR series.)
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 2:31p, 8/17/21
Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to [removed post] • 2:34p, 8/17/21
AG
I know people tend to blame the lack of book narrative to follow, but Season 6 was still great, and contains arguably the best two episodes of the series.

So I don't think it was JUST that, but maybe a contributing factor.

I do wonder if D&D were mentally checked out and already thinking about Star Wars. (And ironically lost that project because of it.)

Whatever it was, it definitely didn't have the care and attention that previous seasons had. (When it comes to the writing.)
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hunter2012
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2:40p, 8/17/21
AG
I did enjoy that there was some poetic justice to come out of the show. A lot of parents out there are having their 4-10 year old daughters go by their middle name rather than Daenerys or Danny. Plenty of people are named after a fictional character(heck I want to name a future son Edmond from Count of Monte Cristo), but don't name the kid before the fiction work ends and their namesake becomes a mad queen.
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2:42p, 8/17/21
Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to hunter2012 • 2:48p, 8/17/21
AG
At least the Arya kids got lucky.
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PatAg
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In reply to hunter2012 • 2:53p, 8/17/21
AG
hunter2012 said:
I did enjoy that there was some poetic justice to come out of the show. A lot of parents out there are having their 4-10 year old daughters go by their middle name rather than Daenerys or Danny. Plenty of people are named after a fictional character(heck I want to name a future son Edmond from Count of Monte Cristo), but don't name the kid before the fiction work ends and their namesake becomes a mad queen.
That's a mouthful
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hunter2012
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In reply to PatAg • 3:02p, 8/17/21
AG
Well it's better than his alias, Chief Clerk of Thompson and French


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BusterAg
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10:50a, 8/24/21
AG
I for one liked the ending, although it was rushed:

1) Danny went full mad king. She finished what her father started. That circle is not talked about enough, but is an important part of the point of the show.
2) No one complained about Danny doing horrific acts when she was doing them to people we, as viewers, didn't like. The unsullied masters, the slavers, the Dothracki Kals. But, when she pulls off a horrific act on people SHE didn't like, all the sudden she's a major psycho. There is a message there about giving too much power to governments. If you tolerate the destruction of people you don't like by a powerful government, what happens when it turns on you?
3) In the end, no one really wants the throne. Everyone is dead. It's kind of like then end of WW1, when just sheer exhaustion from the fighting eventually wore everyone out. King's landing is in ruins, and very little remains of all of the major houses. All of the fighting had terrible consequences, and was not really worth it. The final characters left standing all realize that. Arya escapes Kings Landing on a white horse, forgoing her revenge at the last minute. John escapes Westeros. So, they hand off rule to probably the most fit ruler, the weird guy with no emotions that can see the future.
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
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c-jags
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In reply to BusterAg • 11:59a, 8/24/21
BusterAg said:
2) No one complained about Danny doing horrific acts when she was doing them to people we, as viewers, didn't like. The unsullied masters, the slavers, the Dothracki Kals. But, when she pulls off a horrific act on people SHE didn't like, all the sudden she's a major psycho. There is a message there about giving too much power to governments. If you tolerate the destruction of people you don't like by a powerful government, what happens when it turns on you?


not to delve into politics, but i'm aware that the American military has committed some atrocities. THAT being said, nobody gets upset at movies where people are killing Nazis, the cartel, or terrorists.

i don't think anybody is sitting around and thinking that the slavers and dothraki Kals were innocents slaughtered by a monster.
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BusterAg
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In reply to c-jags • 2:49p, 8/24/21
AG
c-jags said:
BusterAg said:
2) No one complained about Danny doing horrific acts when she was doing them to people we, as viewers, didn't like. The unsullied masters, the slavers, the Dothracki Kals. But, when she pulls off a horrific act on people SHE didn't like, all the sudden she's a major psycho. There is a message there about giving too much power to governments. If you tolerate the destruction of people you don't like by a powerful government, what happens when it turns on you?


not to delve into politics, but i'm aware that the American military has committed some atrocities. THAT being said, nobody gets upset at movies where people are killing Nazis, the cartel, or terrorists.

i don't think anybody is sitting around and thinking that the slavers and dothraki Kals were innocents slaughtered by a monster.
I mean, you're right.

But, the point is, in Dany's eyes, the people of Kings Landing were also not innocents slaughtered by a monster. Who is to say that they were not, compared to the Dothraki Kals or the Unsullied masters?

What is the difference between King's Landing and the firebombing of Dresden. Or Hiroshima / Nagasaki?
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to BusterAg • 3:31p, 8/24/21
AG
BusterAg said:
c-jags said:
BusterAg said:
2) No one complained about Danny doing horrific acts when she was doing them to people we, as viewers, didn't like. The unsullied masters, the slavers, the Dothracki Kals. But, when she pulls off a horrific act on people SHE didn't like, all the sudden she's a major psycho. There is a message there about giving too much power to governments. If you tolerate the destruction of people you don't like by a powerful government, what happens when it turns on you?


not to delve into politics, but i'm aware that the American military has committed some atrocities. THAT being said, nobody gets upset at movies where people are killing Nazis, the cartel, or terrorists.

i don't think anybody is sitting around and thinking that the slavers and dothraki Kals were innocents slaughtered by a monster.
I mean, you're right.

But, the point is, in Dany's eyes, the people of Kings Landing were also not innocents slaughtered by a monster. Who is to say that they were not, compared to the Dothraki Kals or the Unsullied masters?

What is the difference between King's Landing and the firebombing of Dresden. Or Hiroshima / Nagasaki?


Not being contrarian, but had any of those had their military already surrender? Genuinely curious.
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bluefire579
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In reply to Madmarttigan • 3:40p, 8/24/21
AG
tv1113 said:
DannyDuberstein said:
It was like watching 2 different shows. 6-7 seasons of hbo greatness. 1-2 seasons of Cliffs Notes


If you want to have Dany flip out you could have done at least a few things to actually make it plausible.

I still contend that leaving out the Aegon storyline from the books is the reason that this seems so out of the blue.

Dany comes back from the north, having risked her life and her army to defeat the White Walkers, and as such, should be returning as a hero of the realm. Instead, she finds supposed Targaryen (possibly a Blackfyre) sitting on her throne, the one that she has always been told is her right. The people of King's Landing cheer him on, and the southern lords have joined his cause, giving him a legitimacy that she has struggled to find, and the people are cheering him on, much as she was cheered on when she freed the slaves, this pretender receiving the welcome that she so expected to find, after triumphantly returning to oust the Lannisters, to save the realm from the threat in the north.

And she snaps.
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