jeffk said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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Just curious about those saying I am wrong, are you saying that a parent can not will their child to get to a high school level? Or are you saying they can will them to be better than that?

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Risking a huge thread derail, but a lot of people misconstrue talent and skill. Talent is largely inherent and there has to be a baseline present to be successful at anything. Skill can be taught/learned. So if I kid has a decent baseline of talent, you can, through practice, help them develop the skills necessary to become a successful player. If there is "no talent" present in a child, you can't "will" them into being successful because they won't be able to pick up the skills needs to avoid being cut or passed up by the other kids with some talent. It seems like a triffling difference, but it's really quite important and there's a great deal of research in just that area.

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I'll drop it after this so it doesn't get derailed, but I think we are saying the similar things. Maybe the difference is our expectation of what it takes to make a high school team. I believe someone with no talent can be taught enough skill to make a high school team. That doesn't seem like a huge achievement. Most of the time, making a high school team isn't that big of a deal. I'm not even saying the kid is a starter on the team. They'll just make the team. And I'm not saying the parent starts the summer before high school. If you start your kid at the age of four, and really push them for a decade. You wake them up at 6 AM and take them to the gym. You hire private coaches. You send them to an academy. You do all of that for a decade and they'll be good enough to make a high school team regardless of their original athletic talent. By the time the kid reaches high school, the high school coach isn't going to be able to see the kid has no talent because their skill will mask it.

If the kid has decent athletic ability, and is pushed starting at age 4, there's a good chance you'll be able to get an athletic scholarship by the time they graduate.

If the kid has a great athletic ability, and is pushed from age 4, then they'll have a shot at the pros.

If the kid is the top 1% of the 1%, and the parent is in the top 1% of 1% as far as pushing their kid, that's where you get Serena Williams or Tiger Woods.

AustinAg2K said:

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I just added an edit to my last post. I think you are underestimating what I say is a crazy parent. I doubt many people have run into a Richard Williams or Earl Woods type parent. We see a parent yell their kid and think, "That's a crazy parent!" Andre Agassi's dad tied ping pong paddles to his kids hands at the age of 1 and stared throwing balls at him. At age 6, he was hitting thousands of balls a day. The Williams sisters weren't allowed to leave the court until they hit 500 volleys.

If you took a kid at the age of 4, and start making him shoot 1000 shots a day, and you do that every day for 10 years, there's no way that kid gets cut from the Freshman team. Regardless of athletic ability, he's going to be able to shoot. Shear work ethic is going to mask the athletic inability by the time they reach high school.

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He might make the team....if he's still playing (not burnt out, which will happen 99 out of a 100 times) and not injured. That kind of extreme, repetitive strain on young muscles - kids focusing that much on one sport and one muscle group rather than being an all around multisport athlete - has a high likelihood of resulting in a serious career-ending injury at an early age.

I've seen burn out from 11 and 12 yrd old hockey players who's parents and coaches starting pushing them at the age of 7 and 8 yrs old to put in 10-12 hrs a week at practices, lessons, and games. One local peewee team didn't take any time off this spring or summer, instead putting in 17-20 hrs of practice a week, every week. The coach is a former NHLer with a son on the team (his goal obviously being to get his son the League) and who's income these days is private lessons and this team. The parents are so desperate to have a former NHLer coach their sons to hopefully get in the league, they're dedicating hundreds of hours and at a minimum $7-10k a year....and the team is barely hovering around .500 record wise.

Good genes and the right sport trump everything else. I don't care what freakonomics says about 10k hours of practice.

Everyone who has played sports has seen that kid who is just good from day 1….doesn't work at practice but dominates in the game anyhow.

My buddy was team mates with Rod Woodson at Purdue, he said Rod made everything look effortless….everyone would be dragging bent over huffing and puffing for air and Rod looked like he hadn't even practiced, just standing there ready to keep going.

Good grief, people. There's a reason they call it the DNA lottery.

Who here has said DNA isn't a major factor?

I saw an article where the sisters bashed the movie because it makes the father look too good. So I'm torn. Do I watch it because I hate the sisters? Or do I not watch it because I hate the sisters?

Yeah, the most negative reaction I've seen from either Venus or Serena is "our family is complicated." They both endorsed the film heavily and attended premieres.

Executive producers wanting to make a film do well at the boxoffice ($$$)? What a shocking development.

TCTTS said:

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aTmAg said:

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I saw an article where the sisters bashed the movie because it makes the father look too good. So I'm torn. Do I watch it because I hate the sisters? Or do I not watch it because I hate the sisters?

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Venus and Serena are not only executive producers on the film, they had input on the story and are heavily involved with Warner Bros in the official promotion. So this is not only complete BS (surprise, surprise), but your unwarranted expression of hatred for yet even more public figures once again says more about you than anything else.

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I just did a google search and found out that it was the Williams HALF sister that said that. I misread the headline (and didn't bother to read the article).

He abandoned his first wife and 5 kids (told them he was going to buy them a bike and never came back).


And it's not unwarranted hatred. There are plenty examples that make them them worthy of it. Apparently they treat his first abandoned family like crap. That's probably enough right there.

jeffk said:

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Good job! You've taken a big step by reading the articles! Always important to educate yourself before popping off about something.

But yeah, I think how poorly Richard Williams treated the rest of his family is pretty common knowledge among sports fans. Wider Disney movie audiences probably don't know anything about it and it's not something Big Mouse wanted to touch on. Would have killed the vibe they were painting.

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We are talking about "entertainment" here. Which is an industry that is almost never important enough to read beyond the headline. Because, who cares? It's about as unimportant as it gets. In fact, the world was done a disservice by the fact that I wasted a few minutes reading the article because TCTTS's panties were in a wad.

So this is merely a case of misreading a headline. Ooops. My bad.

And the Williams sisters are always worthy of scorn. I'll just throw that in, just in case it's not clear.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Boy, you are trying reaaally hard to get someone to bite on your Venus/Serena hatred.

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I don't care if anybody bites. Just making my (well founded) opinion known.

jeffk said:

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Good job! You've taken a big step by reading the articles! Always important to educate yourself before popping off about something.

But yeah, I think how poorly Richard Williams treated the rest of his family is pretty common knowledge among sports fans. Wider Disney movie audiences probably don't know anything about it and it's not something Big Mouse wanted to touch on. Would have killed the vibe they were painting.

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Umm...This is a Warner Brothers pic. Pretty sure that Disney didn't have anything to do with it.

Yikes, thanks!

jeffk said:

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aTmAg said:

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jeffk said:

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Good job! You've taken a big step by reading the articles! Always important to educate yourself before popping off about something.

But yeah, I think how poorly Richard Williams treated the rest of his family is pretty common knowledge among sports fans. Wider Disney movie audiences probably don't know anything about it and it's not something Big Mouse wanted to touch on. Would have killed the vibe they were painting.

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We are talking about "entertainment" here. Which is an industry that is almost never important enough to read beyond the headline. Because, who cares? It's about as unimportant as it gets. In fact, the world was done a disservice by the fact that I wasted a few minutes reading the article because TCTTS's panties were in a wad.

So this is merely a case of misreading a headline. Ooops. My bad.

And the Williams sisters are always worthy of scorn. I'll just throw that in, just in case it's not clear.

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You admitted that you don't know what you're talking about and are letting your prejudices influence your opinions. But now that you've educated yourself on the issues, you've had to adjust the angle of your attack a bit. It's not huge progress, but it's a step in the right direction and I choose to celebrate that as a win.

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Ironic coming from a person who just got called out for posting the wrong studio.

And where did I "adjust my attack"? I've been consistent on my disdain for the Williams sisters the whole time. The only thing that is new for me is that the dad was a POS as well. In fact, it now makes more sense that the whole family is that way.

Yes, I typed out the wrong studio for a movie that I had watched recently. I apologize to anyone I may have wounded through my carelessness. We're all experiencing some radical re-education and growth this morning.

jeffk said:

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Yes, I typed out the wrong studio for a movie that I had watched recently. I apologize to anyone I may have wounded through my carelessness. We're all experiencing some radical re-education and growth this morning.

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Yeah, and I misread a headline that made me think Williams sisters looked better than they actually are. Now further "education" has shown they do not deserve that benefit of the doubt.

I'm still surprised there isn't more negative reaction to this movie.

aTmAg said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Boy, you are trying reaaally hard to get someone to bite on your Venus/Serena hatred.

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I don't care if anybody bites. Just making my (well founded) opinion known.

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I don't know why you have a problem with Venus, but Serena has always been trash.