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"Why Movie Dialogue Has Gotten More Difficult To Understand" (Article)

5,325 Views | 53 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by PatAg
TCTTS
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AG
Pretty good deep dive on an issue I find increasingly annoying...

swimmerbabe11
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wowww but this is annoying.

I'm definitely in the subtitles club. I have them on always.
Lathspell
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AG
Great to know I'm not the only one. I'm getting into my mid-30's, now, and was just thinking my hearing was just getting bad.

However, I can still hear dialogue in older movies, just fine.
PatAg
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AG
TCTTS said:

Pretty good deep dive on an issue I find increasingly annoying...


There's definitely something to that one sound producer stating that a lot of younger actors have decided talking naturally is how they want to deliver lines.
Ulrich
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I feel like movies from the 90s and early 2000s the music comes in much louder than the dialogue, so rather than constantly fiddling with the volume I just leave it quiet and turn on closed captions. For more recent movies, it's too mumbly with lots of music and sound going at the same time, so more volume doesn't help that much. I have a decent pair of tower speakers, nothing fancy but I'm not rolling with the TV speaker either.

Podcasts aren't what this is about, but I do think that's a medium that needs to step up its sound game. My car has a really good sound system and is reasonably well insulated, but something about the pitch makes some people hard to pick out of the road noise no matter how loud it's on.
FL_Ag1998
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AG
Thank God, I thought it was just me getting into my mid 40's and my hearing getting worse. These days I have to have CC on 90% of the time to understand what's being said.
Btron
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AG
Tinfoil hat on, maybe the movie makers want the sound hard to hear so we have to….watch the movie more than once.
I report, you decide.
bhanacik
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AG
We've gotten used to adjusting the volume up or down based on dialogue versus action scenes. Still so annoying
maroon barchetta
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swimmerbabe11 said:

wowww but this is annoying.

I'm definitely in the subtitles club. I have them on always.


This. Can't do without them.

Also, worst movie ever for dialogue was the "Scarlet Letter" remake with Demi Moore. You had to crank it to 11 to hear her lines and then would get blown out by the music
maroon barchetta
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Btron said:

Tinfoil hat on, maybe the movie makers want the sound hard to hear so we have to….watch the movie more than once.
I report, you decide.


Maybe the crinkling of the tin foil is affecting your ability to hear the sounds.
$3 Sack of Groceries
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AG
Btron said:

Tinfoil hat on, maybe the movie makers want the sound hard to hear so we have to….watch the movie more than once.
I report, you decide.


Counterpoint: if I have to "work" to simply hear the lines in a movie, 99% of the time I'm saying "to hell with this" and finding something else to watch/do.

That stated, I'm closing in on 50 and like many have already said, CCs have been a regular thing on my TV for the past 5 years or so. Just chalked it up to years of shooting and listening to music too loud. Thanks for sharing this!!
Bruce Almighty
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AG
I started watching with subtitles when my kids were born and wanted the volume low to not wake them and haven't gone back. When I don't have them on, I realize how much I'm missing.
jeffk
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AG
Really interesting read, thanks. Glad to hear it's not just me struggling to hear dialogue.
FL_Ag1998
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AG
Even with my hearing getting worse I've also always blamed this issue on actors whispering their lines a lot as a way of being "dramatic", although I never made the connection with thaf being a younger actor generation trait versus the older generation who were trained to make sure "the people in the back" could hear them. Interesting little note from the article.
AustinAg2K
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I don't remember ever having an issue understanding dialogue in a theater, but it happens quite often at home, so I've always chalked it up to my home theater set up.
agdoc2001
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AG
Our watching environments are playing a role as well. The move to hard floors over carpet as well as "open concept" floor plans has increased echoes which garbles dialogue. Throwing a rug with a thick pad on the floor and putting some absorption panels on the wall behind your head go a long way.
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LisaMarie
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AG
Wow thats super interesting that sometimes they have to level dialog audio vowel by vowel, or a syllable at a time. How tedious.
double aught
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AG
Bruce Almighty said:

I started watching with subtitles when my kids were born and wanted the volume low to not wake them and haven't gone back. When I don't have them on, I realize how much I'm missing.
But the opposite is true for me in a sense. When I have captions on, it's pretty much all I look at, at the expense of everything else on the screen. I hate using them but don't really have a choice sometimes.
Mr. White
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agdoc2001 said:

Our watching environments are playing a role as well. The move to hard floors over carpet as well as "open concept" floor plans has increased echoes which garbles dialogue. Throwing a rug with a thick pad on the floor and putting some absorption panels on the wall behind your head go a long way.


This right here.
PatAg
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AG
It's just as bad with headphones on, with the more recent movies. I think I'd still take the tradeoff of better visuals at the expense of dialog, but Id also like to just have both be good
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YouBet
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AG
Fascinating because this tells me I'm not crazy. I would add one more random element to this from the streaming platform side of this. Certain streaming platforms are lower in volume than others. Case in point is Disney+. We watch anything on Disney+ about 10 clicks higher than other platforms. For whatever reason, they have a natural lower starting point with volume. And others have noticed the same thing so it's not just me.

Also, the sound compression via streaming is shockingly noticeable if you aren't blessed with a good sound setup at home. You simply don't realize how utterly different it is to watch a Blu-ray movie fully uncompressed with high-end sound codecs vs just streaming it. We have a great home theater set up, but as streaming has become ubiquitous and with 4k video quality increasingly becoming a commodity with AppleTV and Disney+, it's just easier and cheaper to compromise and rent.

And then taking that a step further not all Blu-ray movies with the best sound standards and codecs are created equally either simply because it depends on how good the sound editors were. My reference movie for sound in the home theater is Master and Commander. Specifically, the opening attack scene where his ship is shredded by cannon will blow your mind in an appropriately equipped home theater with good speakers.
FL_Ag1998
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AG
C@LAg said:

PatAg said:

It's just as bad with headphones on, with the more recent movies. I think I'd still take the tradeoff of better visuals at the expense of dialog, but Id also like to just have both be good
I do not have this problem.

I push most movies through my PC, whether on disc or streaming

I have some dolby headphones that do virtual 7.1 surround and can use the onboard mixer to adjust channels accordingly.

that said, I do watch a LOT of European TV, so I do put on captions for those, even if in English because sometimes they use UK specific slang I have never heard and it helps to see the word so I can look it up.


Yeah, I also find audio much better through my headphones.
YouBet
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AG
I've actually started using my AirPods when streaming (and not using good 5.1 home theater). It's night and day better than sound setup I have with my non-home theater tvs.
maroon barchetta
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Disney+ is way lower. Not as "hot" as we used to say about cd's.
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Big Al 1992
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AG
Good article - and we have to have captions at our house - was invaluable when watching Game of Thrones, Ozark. Other series where character names were important to keep up with.

And according to the article….. there's gonna be an Indiana Jones 5?!
PatAg
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C@LAg said:

PatAg said:

It's just as bad with headphones on, with the more recent movies. I think I'd still take the tradeoff of better visuals at the expense of dialog, but Id also like to just have both be good
I do not have this problem.

I push most movies through my PC, whether on disc or streaming

I have some dolby headphones that do virtual 7.1 surround and can use the onboard mixer to adjust channels accordingly.

that said, I do watch a LOT of European TV, so I do put on captions for those, even if in English because sometimes they use UK specific slang I have never heard and it helps to see the word so I can look it up.
I thought th whole discussion was about specific movies and the trend of it occurring more often, and not just all movies in general.
Tenet had some specific issues with dialog, that was the same wtih headphones or not in my opinion.
TCTTS
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AG
Big Al 1992 said:

Good article - and we have to have captions at our house - was invaluable when watching Game of Thrones, Ozark. Other series where character names were important to keep up with.

And according to the article….. there's gonna be an Indiana Jones 5?!

https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/3096863
rynning
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AG
I think part of the problem is that TV manufactures put 99% of their attention in the picture and 1% in the (built-in) sound. If you don't have at least a sound bar, the audio will likely be pretty bad.
YouBet
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AG
rynning said:

I think part of the problem is that TV manufactures put 99% of their attention in the picture and 1% in the (built-in) sound. If you don't have at least a sound bar, the audio will likely be pretty bad.


Definitely true but I frequently still have to use CC on some shows even with a 5.1 setup because the mix of the movie is so off.
Lathspell
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AG
rynning said:

I think part of the problem is that TV manufactures put 99% of their attention in the picture and 1% in the (built-in) sound. If you don't have at least a sound bar, the audio will likely be pretty bad.
That may be A problem, but the problem persists completely outside of that. I have a Sonos sound bar and sub, and have to use sub titles on pretty much anything released in the last 10-15 years.
cc10106
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It's a conspiracy to get people buy more $ound reinforcement for their home theaters. I don't have any and love having to crank up anything I stream from HBO to hear it.
javajaws
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AustinAg2K said:

I don't remember ever having an issue understanding dialogue in a theater, but it happens quite often at home, so I've always chalked it up to my home theater set up.
Acoustics in a home can be bad. Especially if your listening position is against a wall. What happens is that instead of having a sound arrive at your ears all at once that sounds bounces off of walls/ceiling/floor/etc and instead arrives in multiple at slightly different times. This results in muddiness and lack of clarity.

Easiest solution is to add some broadband sound absorption at the primary reflection points in your room. This could be side walls, ceiling, and back wall usually. It's a complex topic, but simple steps can be taken to get some improvement. Note that a rug on the floor does not count as it absorbs a fairly narrow freq range - robbing your system of high freq detail while doing nothing to the mid range.

Here are some sound absorbers I built for my 2 channel listening system (would apply to home theater listening as well):

4" mineral wool is what these have in them and is a good start for most problems. They won't do much to reduce low bass problems but that's not usually a problem associated with hearing voices clearly.






"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin
malenurse
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AG
YouBet said:

Fascinating because this tells me I'm not crazy. I would add one more random element to this from the streaming platform side of this. Certain streaming platforms are lower in volume than others. Case in point is Disney+. We watch anything on Disney+ about 10 clicks higher than other platforms. For whatever reason, they have a natural lower starting point with volume. And others have noticed the same thing so it's not just me.

Also, the sound compression via streaming is shockingly noticeable if you aren't blessed with a good sound setup at home. You simply don't realize how utterly different it is to watch a Blu-ray movie fully uncompressed with high-end sound codecs vs just streaming it. We have a great home theater set up, but as streaming has become ubiquitous and with 4k video quality increasingly becoming a commodity with AppleTV and Disney+, it's just easier and cheaper to compromise and rent.

And then taking that a step further not all Blu-ray movies with the best sound standards and codecs are created equally either simply because it depends on how good the sound editors were. My reference movie for sound in the home theater is Master and Commander. Specifically, the opening attack scene where his ship is shredded by cannon will blow your mind in an appropriately equipped home theater with good speakers.

Dang, now I finally understand why I could never hear anything during The Mandalorian and, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
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