Macarthur said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Max Power said:

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Fun piece of trivia about her infamous performance on SNL. The photo of the pope she tore up wasn't thrown away or destroyed, it was picked up by one of the cast members who kept it a secret for years. I think I read about it in Live From New York, IIRC.

That cast member was...David Spade.

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She got so much crap for that and she was right.

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Oh brother. Not gonna (further) derail into politics but to act like what she did wasn't shocking and should've gone without consequences is absurd.
She knew what she was doing was outrageous and she paid the price for it.
I'm an atheist by the way so this has nothing to do with religion but rather decorum and decency. There's a time and a place. On the stage at SNL aint it.

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When exactly is the right time and place to point out the coverup of thousands of children abused by priests?

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I suppose you think this is a cute 'gotcha' but in reality it's a palpably myopic question that appears to have been posed for the purpose of arguing for nothing more than the sake of it.

I'll answer your question though….

You've got 30 years of evidence that pretty obviously tell you not on a comedy show in 1992 and not by tearing up a picture of one that church's most beloved leaders of all time. Something about catching more flies with honey than vinegar……
If she'd had decided to actually use her celebrity and voice to do something concrete and substantial she'd have gotten a lot more mileage and perhaps been a lot more effective in her efforts. Instead she decided to take the rock and roll route and it didn't do a damn thing except torpedo her career and essentially push the issue back in the dark for virtually another decade.

I frankly think you couldn't be more wrong about every single point above.

She was an artist, and as the other poster said, was willing to sacrifice her career to bring light to an incredible wrong. I think she showed incredible integrity and selflessness.

Best UFC walkout ever IMO.

"She had only so much 'self' to give. She was dropped by her label after selling 7 million albums for them. She became crazed, yes, but uninteresting, never. She had done nothing wrong. She had proud vulnerability … and there is a certain music industry hatred for singers who don't 'fit in' (this I know only too well), and they are never praised until death - when, finally, they can't answer back. The cruel playpen of fame gushes with praise for Sinead today … with the usual moronic labels of "icon" and "legend". You praise her now ONLY because it is too late. You hadn't the guts to support her when she was alive and she was looking for you. The press will label artists as pests because of what they withhold … and they would call Sinead sad, fat, shocking, insane … oh but not today! Music CEOs who had put on their most charming smile as they refused her for their roster are queuing-up to call her a "feminist icon", and 15 minute celebrities and goblins from hell and record labels of artificially aroused diversity are squeezing onto Twitter to twitter their jibber-jabber … when it was YOU who talked Sinead into giving up … because she refused to be labelled, and she was degraded, as those few who move the world are always degraded. Why is ANYBODY surprised that Sinead O'Connor is dead? Who cared enough to save Judy Garland, Whitney Houston, Amy Winehouse, Marilyn Monroe, Billie Holiday? Where do you go when death can be the best outcome? Was this music madness worth Sinead's life? No, it wasn't. She was a challenge, and she couldn't be boxed-up, and she had the courage to speak when everyone else stayed safely silent. She was harassed simply for being herself. Her eyes finally closed in search of a soul she could call her own. As always, the lamestreamers miss the ringing point, and with locked jaws they return to the insultingly stupid "icon" and "legend" when last week words far more cruel and dismissive would have done. Tomorrow the fawning fops flip back to their online ****posts and their cosy Cancer Culture and their moral superiority and their obituaries of parroted vomit … all of which will catch you lying on days like today … when Sinead doesn't need your sterile slop."

MORRISSEY
26 July, 2023.

superunknown said:

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When an entire auditorium of people are booing you for telling the truth, you find out who are your friends & standup individuals. Kris Kristofferson standing alone on stage with you as insults rained down is still a moment of tender humanity.
Rest in peace, Sister Sinead. pic.twitter.com/MxNiyX9XGF

— Trevor Jason (@TJSode) July 26, 2023

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Epic.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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superunknown said:

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When an entire auditorium of people are booing you for telling the truth, you find out who are your friends & standup individuals. Kris Kristofferson standing alone on stage with you as insults rained down is still a moment of tender humanity.
Rest in peace, Sister Sinead. pic.twitter.com/MxNiyX9XGF

— Trevor Jason (@TJSode) July 26, 2023

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Epic.

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Wow, that is epic.

Understand that Sinead was also a 26 year old artist that obviously had a few mental issues. Yeah, there was probably a more calculating and successful way she could have brought attention to the issue but she wasn't some grand political/cultural strategist.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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I wouldn't want to be in her shoes now as she faces judgement.

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She won't have it as bad as the abusers and their enablers that she protested.

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Know Your Enemy said:

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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Max Power said:

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Fun piece of trivia about her infamous performance on SNL. The photo of the pope she tore up wasn't thrown away or destroyed, it was picked up by one of the cast members who kept it a secret for years. I think I read about it in Live From New York, IIRC.

That cast member was...David Spade.

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She got so much crap for that and she was right.

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Oh brother. Not gonna (further) derail into politics but to act like what she did wasn't shocking and should've gone without consequences is absurd.
She knew what she was doing was outrageous and she paid the price for it.
I'm an atheist by the way so this has nothing to do with religion but rather decorum and decency. There's a time and a place. On the stage at SNL aint it.

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It absolutely was shocking and was meant to be exactly that. She "paid the price for it" because people would rather support the Catholic church instead of the tens of thousands of abuse victims that the church helped to cover up. It ruined her career but the best part is she didn't giving a flying **** and stood strong behind her actions. Talk about true integrity and standing up against an evil monolith risking your entire career. She is a damn hero as far as I'm concerned. Spare me the "time and place" bull**** when it comes to calling out pedophiles and those that protect them.

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See above.
Let's also be very clear here. This isn't about defending pedophile priests or some how denouncing Sinead's fight against them. My reply was simply in regard to Sappers feigned bewilderment at the reaction it got.

You said yourself "people would rather support the Catholic Church"….that's the entire point.
You don't bring awareness and gather support for a cause by throwing Malatov cocktails at your target audience.

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Who said I was bewildered? The Church had spent decades by that point covering up the abuse and John Paul was complicit in that. I'm not sure what you would expect her, as a popular artist, to do. But she knew she had a massive platform that night with a limited amount of time and she chose to make a very blunt statement. One that certainly brought attention to the matter.

I'm honestly trying to think of any way to break the dam on the sex abuse scandal that wouldn't have drawn massive backlash. The Boston Globe did extensive research and reporting and faced huge institutional pressure to backdown and then huge attacks in the public domain. And they were professional journalists vs a singer.

Macarthur said:

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I Am A Critic said:

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StandUpforAmerica said:

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I wouldn't want to be in her shoes now as she faces judgement.

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She won't have it as bad as the abusers and their enablers that she protested.

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I hope that's true.

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I think we as people vastly misunderstand and underestimate the Lord's ability to discern the truth of our souls. We are all here with our many faults and he knows this. Nobody walks this planet without flaw or sin and he alone will be the final judge of where we end up and I think there is far more forgiveness from him than we can imagine.

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Max Power said:

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Fun piece of trivia about her infamous performance on SNL. The photo of the pope she tore up wasn't thrown away or destroyed, it was picked up by one of the cast members who kept it a secret for years. I think I read about it in Live From New York, IIRC.

That cast member was...David Spade.

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She got so much crap for that and she was right.

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Oh brother. Not gonna (further) derail into politics but to act like what she did wasn't shocking and should've gone without consequences is absurd.
She knew what she was doing was outrageous and she paid the price for it.
I'm an atheist by the way so this has nothing to do with religion but rather decorum and decency. There's a time and a place. On the stage at SNL aint it.

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Bro, they were covering up for closet pedo's. People should have been executed and we are talking about the "right place and right time" to call out the child molestation and corruption? I say this as a Christian...skin alive anyone in those positions who molest children...along with anyone actively trying to cover it up.

if anything, they should be held to MUCH HARSHER standards than just your average joe citizen...this is backed up biblically as well.

Macarthur said:

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I frankly think you couldn't be more wrong about every single point above.

She was an artist, and as the other poster said, was willing to sacrifice her career to bring light to an incredible wrong. I think she showed incredible integrity and selflessness.

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I remember being a young dumb 11 year old at the time and misunderstanding it as a bash against God/Christianity in general. In hindsight, knowing what I know now and having an adult understanding of things, I consider it selfless heroism and almost get emotional thinking about how much hate she received for years/decades to come. I am sure it contributed to her bouts of severe mental illness.

I am not in any way shape or form anti-Catholic, or any religion...but to me, risking your reputation, fame and career to bring attention to institutional corruption, much less involving children, takes courage, or "balls the size of church bells", as I once heard a Texas rancher say.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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I wouldn't want to be in her shoes now as she faces judgement.

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Lol wat. Give me a break.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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I love the Smiths and Morrissey but he's a tad bit over the top here (not out of character for that guy).

I don't really understand the commentary that she was ruined over her SNL stunt. Controversy gets eyeyballs and fame. Madonna was referenced earlier in this thread and she called out Sinead which doesn't make sense.

Madonna built her entire career off disruption and made evangelical Christians furious back in the day with her "Like a Prayer" video. It didn't stop her one bit.

I think Sinead had an actual point to make. Madonna was just trying to push buttons for MTV fame (I do love her and that song as well).

It was a different era, sure. If Sinead had torn up the same picture any time in the 21st century in the age of social media she'd have been on the cover of Time's "Person of the Year". Point being, there's no way that moment and backlash ruined her forever. And if it did, well then **** Lorne Michaels.

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IMO, it was seen as a serious and direct attack on the catholic church and all Catholic people at the time. Not just pushing the envelop and being edgy like so many pop artists did and still continue to do.

She was attacked relentlessly from that point on. Her career was also all but done. I could definitely see how that could drive someone, especially if they may already struggle with mental illness or illness that hasn't manifested yet, could fall into madness.

If you watch the end of that Kris Kristofferson "Sister Sinead" video...she looks absolutely crushed at the end. Like she was strong in facing the crowd as they jeered and heckled her, but when she turned around and he consoled her she appears to break down into tears (from her body language). It's pretty sad to see...even if you think she was 100% wrong for tearing up a picture of the pope, it's hard not to feel for her imo. I don't know if she realized just how hated by so many people she would become.

Again, many people at the time took it kind of as a blasphemous attack on Catholicism/Christianity as a faith.

YouBet said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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Macarthur said:

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I frankly think you couldn't be more wrong about every single point above.

She was an artist, and as the other poster said, was willing to sacrifice her career to bring light to an incredible wrong. I think she showed incredible integrity and selflessness.

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I remember being a young dumb 11 year old at the time and misunderstanding it as a bash against God/Christianity in general. In hindsight, knowing what I know now and having an adult understanding of things, I consider it selfless heroism and almost get emotional thinking about how much hate she received for years/decades to come. I am sure it contributed to her bouts of severe mental illness.

I am not in any way shape or form anti-Catholic, or any religion...but to me, risking your reputation, fame and career to bring attention to institutional corruption, much less involving children, takes courage, or "balls the size of church bells", as I once heard a Texas rancher say.

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Interesting because while I remember the SNL event I had forgotten why she did it, and to be honest, I'm not sure if I even realized until this thread that it was over the abuse stuff.

I was a senior in high school and quite distracted with teenager things at the time. Like you, I probably chalked it up to a musician just being shock and awe for the effect and moved on.

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I remember my dad, a faithful protestant who has had his criticisms of the Catholic faith over the years, being p*ssed off. He seemed to see it as "another crazy celeb bashing Christianity/people of faith".

She later explained that it probably could have been better communicated as people in Ireland seemed to be much more aware of the abuses than people in North America.

I remember on that SNL performance she said something about "good will win over evil" and then said "fight the real enemy" before ripping up the pope's picture. In hindsight, she could have at least mentioned the abuses carried out and covered up or whatever. Not sure that would have mitigated the outrage, but at least would have given a bit more context for people to stew over.

She sang an a capella version of the Bob Marley song called War before she ripped up the pic with the line about fighting the real enemy.

Max Power said:

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Fun piece of trivia about her infamous performance on SNL. The photo of the pope she tore up wasn't thrown away or destroyed, it was picked up by one of the cast members who kept it a secret for years. I think I read about it in Live From New York, IIRC.

That cast member was...David Spade.

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It wasn't kept a secret for years - Joe Pesci held up the tapes together picture during his monologue the next week and said he would have slapped her.

I guess but I think once you look at her career, as a whole, she continued her stance and never backed away from it all. This was not just a one time publicity stunt for her.