Just watched this again the other night and it was gripping. Not only is it an absolutely amazing acting performance by Phoenix, but it is probably the only origin story or backstory for a villain that I know of where I can actually sympathize with them to a large degree, and understand why they ended up the way they did. So many moments resonate, but the part where he is watching the Murray Franklin show with his mother (not yet realizing he's adopted), and finds himself daydreaming about Murray saying he "wished he had a son like him" was a really powerful moment...against the dark abusive nightmarish backdrop of his actual past upbringing.

I realize the movie is too "dark" for many, but my goodness what an amazing piece of art.

Did absolutely nothing for me. Kept waiting for it to take off and it just never did. Recognized what they were going for, but did not resonate with me at all. Watched it once, and only once.

Wish I could have that time back.

Different strokes, I guess.

No because it was a movie about mental health that had the Jokers face painted on it and showed a scene with Bruce Wayne in it.

It also just wasn't that good and way overhyped.

I actually really enjoyed it.

I thought JP was the best Joker of our time (and yes, I know that is going to upset HL fans and he was great too but I preferred JP).

That said, I'm into more dark themes. I'm the one who posted I'd like to see Star Wars remade with Anakin's dark turn coming as a result of him thinking Obi Won and Amidila had an affair behind his back and he thought Obi Won got her pregnant .

I want my Joker to be dark, totally effed up in the head, and even potentially go down the serial killer route turning Batman into a detective trying to solve a crime and killing spree nobody else can.

I loved it, and I think its definitely the best possible Joker origin story, so yeah it ranks at or near the top in my book.

Worst Superhero/Villain Origin Story ever.

I thought that movie was crap.

Made me feel like they were trying to get me to sympathize with a serial killer the whole time. Weird movie.

To each their own, but I thought that movie stunk

I thought it was great. Best DC movie since The Dark Knight.

No, because I never felt like it was actually about the Joker of the comics.

Madmarttigan said:

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No because it was a movie about mental health that had the Jokers face painted on it and showed a scene with Bruce Wayne in it.

It also just wasn't that good and way overhyped.

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How I felt.

Joker is my favorite villain in all of media. So really any origin story of the Joker shouldn't be done IMO.

The Joker from the comics, Jack Napier is a fearless criminal genius and a chemist. He is extremely clever and intelligent. He can read people like a book and understands what motivates them.

Joaquin Phoenix's Arthur Fleck was a mentally unstable lunatic who just sought chaos. At the end of the movie, he was clueless during all the rioting. He had no leadership of any type with the mob or gang as we see from the Joker in the comics. The Joker movie was lame. The Joker from the Gotham tv series was better than this movie.

Edit: AgTrip hadn't posted yet when I started typing this, but those are my thoughts exactly ^^

I didn't dislike it as a movie. My main problem with it was the way the character was written. The character was socially awkward, in his own head, timid, unsure of himself, a bit oblivious to the world's view of him, and a just a little too dumb for lack of a better word, like he kind of fell into his screwed up psychological state by accident because he was so emotionally damaged.

That is not the joker in any previous Batman adaptation. Ledger's joker, for example, is extremely charismatic, cool-headed, purposeful in his actions, acutely aware of the motivations of everybody around him, acutely aware of other people's feelings (which he uses against them), and a criminal mastermind who is always one step ahead. He knows with certainty that he is evil, and he likes it and embraces it with confidence and intention. Nicholson's joker is more nuanced than Ledger's, but I think you can say a lot of the same things about him.

It is not believable that the character played by Joaquin Phoenix would ever develop into that kind of villain. They tried to evolve him into that a little bit at the end of the movie, but it didn't work. If you separate it from the Batman franchise, Joker is a decent movie in that it is an intriguing portrayal of a person spiraling into psychological disarray and ultimately lashing out. But again, it's just not believable at all that this person ends up being a villain who is formidable enough to be Batman's nemesis.

I prefer the idea that the Joker only exists because Batman exists, so to me, any origin story isn't really going to be a good one. I think the best idea for the Joker's origin is in The Dark Knight, where he essentially makes up many stories and the audience has no idea what his origin really is.

I liked it the first time when it was called Taxi Driver.

I liked the movie but utilizing the Joker character was 100% unnecessary to the movie so, while it is very good, I don't even really consider it an origin story to be honest.

Although I did enjoy the film, I certainly wouldn't prefer to see that version of The Joker integrated into other DC Universe movies.

I thought it was definitely well-made and well-acted, but I wish it had never been made because I feel like it is mass shooter fuel.

The best super villain origin movie is x-men first class.

Seeing Magneto develop from Nazi hunter to antihero to villain is compelling stuff.

Best presentation of an origin story: