Network execs and consultants: I wonder, which do you think would higher viewership? A comedian telling the kinds of jokes humanities professors, journalists, and HR directors would tell amongst themselves? Or a comedian telling the kinds of jokes electricians, auto-mechanics, salesmen, and first responders would tell amongst themselves. Just impossible to predict.
Colbert cancelled
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Gigem314 said:cajunaggie08 said:
For all claiming politics are the reason Colbert ratings are down, the ONLY thing that beats it at that time slot is the right winged version of the same show on Fox News.
https://latenighter.com/news/ratings/late-night-tv-ratings-q2-2025/
It's not the same show though. Gutfeld is only focused on politics, and the guests reflect that. It's more like the Daily Show or Maher. The Late Show and Tonight Show are brands that were built on entertainment and comedy - with occasional politics thrown in. Much different format.
But the fact that people can't tell the difference anymore kind of makes the point that the late night network comedy shows really drifted away from their original content and brand.
There were a number of factors that led to the demise, but let's not pretend like they are currently highly successful show that are being killed off because one person said so.
There are tons of networks that would kill to have a show that pulled in over 2 million nightly that also have high streaming and internet engagement. If you look at the ratings for all shows in July, Colbert is one of the top performing. His average night pulls the same ratings as MLB's All-Star game. If that is considered a failing show, then linear tv might as well shut up shop and make it be dead air except for when NFL games come on.
Cliff.Booth said:
Network execs and consultants: I wonder, which do you think would higher viewership? A comedian telling the kinds of jokes humanities professors, journalists, and HR directors would tell amongst themselves? Or a comedian telling the kinds of jokes electricians, auto-mechanics, salesmen, and first responders would tell amongst themselves. Just impossible to predict.
Very odd separation of people you have there. Can't say Ive seen our salemen and electricians hang out in the same watering hole. 3/4 of those in your second category talk about playing call of duty most nights. its hard to guess who to cater to for a tv show because tv isnt the default entertainment for most of america anymore.
I was illustrating blue collar, ordinary Americans who make the kind of jokes commonly that would give people like Colbert and his writers an aneurism.
Lots of ego at the legacy networks like CBS though. They obviously don't have confidence in Colbert at this point, otherwise they'd press on.
Clearly lots of ego. Too much coincidence for a highly rated tv legacy tv show to get canceled the same week its host called out his bosses for paying a $16 Million "settlement" to the sitting US President.
cajunaggie08 said:
Clearly lots of ego. Too much coincidence for a highly rated tv legacy tv show to get canceled the same week its host called out his bosses for paying a $16 Million "settlement" to the sitting US President.
You've already said on other threads that you lean left. You are really taking it hard that a leftist mouthpiece is getting canned.
Cliff.Booth said:
Network execs and consultants: I wonder, which do you think would higher viewership? A comedian telling the kinds of jokes humanities professors, journalists, and HR directors would tell amongst themselves? Or a comedian telling the kinds of jokes electricians, auto-mechanics, salesmen, and first responders would tell amongst themselves. Just impossible to predict.
Exactly, their benchmark seems to have been "would coastal liberal arts lifelong academics laugh at this?" rather than, "would normal, everyday Americans find this funny and not completely offensive and overflowing with hatred?" for far too long.
They went all in on desperately trying to appeal to and be perceived as cool and hip by people like this...
While just constantly being as abrasive as possible towards normal, every day Americans with normal jobs and families...even though there are orders of magnitude more of these types of people in this country.
Bold f-ing strategy LOLOL
The show was hemorrhaging money. It got canceled. REALLY isn't difficult to explain.
Jack Ruby said:
The show was hemorrhaging money. It got canceled. REALLY isn't difficult to explain.
Speaking of this concept...when the WNBA gonna get cancelled?
The same people who had peace that Colbert was on but didn't watch it (because he tells the same bad jokes each night), have peace that WNBA is on (but never watch it because bad basketball isn't interesting). We need more entertainment that people support because it's engaging and they avidly watch it rather than supporting it for what it stands for in their mind.
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Nobody gives a **** about the WNBA. nobody
If you ask 1000 young people if the WNBA should exist and if the athletes should be paid comparable to NBA players, they'll answer the way they know they are supposed to answer, but if you ask them to name five teams, only a few could. It's the same, broad issue across entertainment, which is wanting massively expensive products made for very few viewers, and feigning shock when the numbers don't work out. "This wasn't made for you." Yeah, I know.
maroon barchetta said:cajunaggie08 said:
Clearly lots of ego. Too much coincidence for a highly rated tv legacy tv show to get canceled the same week its host called out his bosses for paying a $16 Million "settlement" to the sitting US President.
You've already said on other threads that you lean left. You are really taking it hard that a leftist mouthpiece is getting canned.
I'm not taking it hard. Like I've previously said. I don't watch much late night tv despite me being the show's target demo. Just having a conversation. I watched Leno and to a lesser extent Letterman almost nightly as a child and teen so forgive me for talking about the possible death of an entertainment format on the ENTERTAINMENT board.
Cliff.Booth said:
The same people who had peace that Colbert was on but didn't watch it (because he tells the same bad jokes each night), have peace that WNBA is on (but never watch it because bad basketball isn't interesting). We need more entertainment that people support because it's engaging and they avidly watch it rather than supporting it for what it stands for in their mind.
The amount of people that avidly watch the WNBA is up. I think it went from single digits to maybe double in the past year.
cajunaggie08 said:
Clearly lots of ego. Too much coincidence for a highly rated tv legacy tv show to get canceled the same week its host called out his bosses for paying a $16 Million "settlement" to the sitting US President.
Maybe they should have hired better lawyers. If Dan Rather couldn't survive CBS than why should Colbert have thought he was safe?
cajunaggie08 said:Cliff.Booth said:
The same people who had peace that Colbert was on but didn't watch it (because he tells the same bad jokes each night), have peace that WNBA is on (but never watch it because bad basketball isn't interesting). We need more entertainment that people support because it's engaging and they avidly watch it rather than supporting it for what it stands for in their mind.
The amount of people that avidly watch the WNBA is up. I think it went from single digits to maybe double in the past year.
and its all because of one player, and the idiots in the league keep beating the crap out of her (dirty fouls that don't get called) so don't expect it to last long.
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You'd think a network could just rotate through a selection of comedians to do 15-20 minutes and a music act to do 3 songs and package it with some ads for 1 hour of TV at night. Studio audience, some flunky as a host to introduce them, and that's it. Or have the comedian introduce the music act like on SNL
Ferg said:cajunaggie08 said:Cliff.Booth said:
The same people who had peace that Colbert was on but didn't watch it (because he tells the same bad jokes each night), have peace that WNBA is on (but never watch it because bad basketball isn't interesting). We need more entertainment that people support because it's engaging and they avidly watch it rather than supporting it for what it stands for in their mind.
The amount of people that avidly watch the WNBA is up. I think it went from single digits to maybe double in the past year.
and its all because of one player, and the idiots in the league keep beating the crap out of her (dirty fouls that don't get called) so don't expect it to last long.
Yep.
And if the player looked different, there would be protests and calls of "hate crime!!!"
But instead, crickets.
cajunaggie08 said:Gigem314 said:cajunaggie08 said:
For all claiming politics are the reason Colbert ratings are down, the ONLY thing that beats it at that time slot is the right winged version of the same show on Fox News.
https://latenighter.com/news/ratings/late-night-tv-ratings-q2-2025/
It's not the same show though. Gutfeld is only focused on politics, and the guests reflect that. It's more like the Daily Show or Maher. The Late Show and Tonight Show are brands that were built on entertainment and comedy - with occasional politics thrown in. Much different format.
But the fact that people can't tell the difference anymore kind of makes the point that the late night network comedy shows really drifted away from their original content and brand.
There were a number of factors that led to the demise, but let's not pretend like they are currently highly successful show that are being killed off because one person said so.
There are tons of networks that would kill to have a show that pulled in over 2 million nightly that also have high streaming and internet engagement. If you look at the ratings for all shows in July, Colbert is one of the top performing. His average night pulls the same ratings as MLB's All-Star game. If that is considered a failing show, then linear tv might as well shut up shop and make it be dead air except for when NFL games come on.
Yes, it's considered failing when your net profit is -40%. This is classic Marketing think where only engagement, eyeballs, and click throughs matter with no link back to the question of: "But does it make financial sense which is the whole reason for doing it in the first place?"
Revenue is irrelevant when your Profit is negative especially 40 points under water negative.
beanbean said:AgGrad99 said:
I used to watch talk shows, and enjoyed them. But they are not entertaining anymore.
My ideas to save talk shows...
- Have them on earlier. Get rid of the late news. We dont need so many hours of the news...we've already seen the stories on our phones throughout the day.
- Don't try to be comedy shows. Funny mixed in is awesome, and if the host/show are naturally funny, so be it. But having comedians trying too hard to be funny, every night, usually isn't. Just have some good content and good interviews. I'd like to learn something about the guests, not just watch some pre-planned skit between them and host.
- Stop being so formulaic. Mix up the schedule. Make the audience feel like they might miss something if they don't tune in the entire time. I understand there are production concerns, etc...but the exact same format, every night, year after year, gets old.
They tried that with Leno at 9pm and it was a disaster.
It was a completely different landscape back then.
Gutfeld is currently killing all of them in that timeslot.
I read an article many years ago, about why David Letterman was at a massive disadvantage, compared to Leno, with regards to ratings. They each relied on their local news programming to bring the audience to their show. At the time, NBCs was much stronger than CBS. David had a much higher conversion rate, but he was fighting an impossible uphill battle.
These days, local news isn't what it once was...so just getting viewers in general is tougher. TV suggests people still like talk shows...and interviews with celebs, but that late night time slot is tougher without a strong lead in.
cajunaggie08 said:Gigem314 said:cajunaggie08 said:
For all claiming politics are the reason Colbert ratings are down, the ONLY thing that beats it at that time slot is the right winged version of the same show on Fox News.
https://latenighter.com/news/ratings/late-night-tv-ratings-q2-2025/
It's not the same show though. Gutfeld is only focused on politics, and the guests reflect that. It's more like the Daily Show or Maher. The Late Show and Tonight Show are brands that were built on entertainment and comedy - with occasional politics thrown in. Much different format.
But the fact that people can't tell the difference anymore kind of makes the point that the late night network comedy shows really drifted away from their original content and brand.
There were a number of factors that led to the demise, but let's not pretend like they are currently highly successful show that are being killed off because one person said so.
There are tons of networks that would kill to have a show that pulled in over 2 million nightly that also have high streaming and internet engagement. If you look at the ratings for all shows in July, Colbert is one of the top performing. His average night pulls the same ratings as MLB's All-Star game. If that is considered a failing show, then linear tv might as well shut up shop and make it be dead air except for when NFL games come on.
...
It was LOSING $40M per year!
If I lost my company even $100,000, I would no longer be working here.
You can make all the arguments you want or pose as many conspiracy theories as you'd like to. The bottom line is that the show was losing $40M per year.
YouBet said:cajunaggie08 said:Gigem314 said:cajunaggie08 said:
For all claiming politics are the reason Colbert ratings are down, the ONLY thing that beats it at that time slot is the right winged version of the same show on Fox News.
https://latenighter.com/news/ratings/late-night-tv-ratings-q2-2025/
It's not the same show though. Gutfeld is only focused on politics, and the guests reflect that. It's more like the Daily Show or Maher. The Late Show and Tonight Show are brands that were built on entertainment and comedy - with occasional politics thrown in. Much different format.
But the fact that people can't tell the difference anymore kind of makes the point that the late night network comedy shows really drifted away from their original content and brand.
There were a number of factors that led to the demise, but let's not pretend like they are currently highly successful show that are being killed off because one person said so.
There are tons of networks that would kill to have a show that pulled in over 2 million nightly that also have high streaming and internet engagement. If you look at the ratings for all shows in July, Colbert is one of the top performing. His average night pulls the same ratings as MLB's All-Star game. If that is considered a failing show, then linear tv might as well shut up shop and make it be dead air except for when NFL games come on.
Yes, it's considered failing when your net profit is -40%. This is classic Marketing think where only engagement, eyeballs, and click throughs matter with no link back to the question of: "But does it make financial sense which is the whole reason for doing it in the first place?"
Revenue is irrelevant when your Profit is negative especially 40 points under water negative.
So if the number 1 show in its timeslot is failing financially, isnt that more a mark on CBS for not finding a way to make that a profitable show? There is no way Fallon and Kimmel are profitable either seeing how they pull similar, if not worse viewership. Maybe those shows are profitable because they pay talent less. Maybe they aren't either and they are looking at cancellation soon. Maybe CBS really sucks at ad sales. Or perhaps CBS/Paramount is doing some funny accounting and shifting some studio renovation costs on to the show to make the justification that its a net money loser.
Quote:
So if the number 1 show in its timeslot is failing financially, isnt that more a mark on CBS for not finding a way to make that a profitable show?
Yes.
But that doesn't change the 'why', when talking about why he was canceled. Regardless whose fault it is, losing 40 million is losing 40 million.
I'm sure they would have loved to have made it profitable, but it wasn't working. Did they have a plan they were confident would turn it around? And how long would it take for that to happen? Could they afford that? Could they afford to be wrong, again, if it didnt turn around? These are all the things the network has to consider, for programming that's declined over the past few decades.
Fallon has already reduced his schedule to 4 days. I'd suspect him and Kimmel aren't far behind
We've seen what producing cheap late night shows looks like. Carson Daly did it on NBC for like a decade. James Corden on CBS for like a decade.
The revenue in the industry dried up.
And the broadcasters no longer need to just have something in the slots.
The revenue in the industry dried up.
And the broadcasters no longer need to just have something in the slots.
AgGrad99 said:Quote:
So if the number 1 show in its timeslot is failing financially, isnt that more a mark on CBS for not finding a way to make that a profitable show?
Yes.
But that doesn't change the 'why', when talking about why he was canceled. Regardless whose fault it is, losing 40 million is losing 40 million.
I'm sure they would have loved to have made it profitable, but it wasn't working. And how long would it take to turn that around? Could you afford to be wrong, again, if it didnt turn around? These are all the things the network has to consider, for programming that's declined over the past few decades.
But do we know if the show ever went over-budget? Its not a show's job to sell ads except for maybe in-show product placement. Its a shows job to deliver eyeballs to the network with the budget given to them by the studio. Now, the landscape has changed since Colbert originally signed on. But he signed his latest contract in 2023. There really hasn't been a shift in the landscape since then other than the company that signed that contract is now being bought out by Skydance and that companies are getting more reserved about ad spending as no one knows what budget to set for the next year let alone quarter with tariffs being on/off/on/off/on.
Great tweet from an amazing follow on Twitter who actually just wrote a book on his time in Hollywood as a producer, among other things.
Pound for pound, talk shows are cheap to produce.
— Rambo Van Halen (@RamboVanHalen) July 21, 2025
The Late Show with Stephen Colbert reportedly has an annual budget of $100 mil--which includes Colbert's salary. The produce about 150 shows a year. Without commercial breaks each show is about 40 minutes. But if you take… pic.twitter.com/JVrAGBV6tM
Quote:
But do we know if the show ever went over-budget? Its not a show's job to sell ads except for maybe in-show product placement. Its a shows job to deliver eyeballs to the network with the budget given to them by the studio. Now, the landscape has changed since Colbert originally signed on. But he signed his latest contract in 2023. There really hasn't been a shift in the landscape since then other than the company that signed that contract is now being bought out by Skydance and that companies are getting more reserved about ad spending as no one knows what budget to set for the next year let alone quarter with tariffs being on/off/on/off/on.
....but losing 40 million.
I'm not debating why, or who might be at fault. I'm simply pointing out why it was canceled.
The Tonight Show is currently under contract until sometime in 2026. I would bet they let it limp along until then, and pull the plug. Fallon is under contract until '28. Im sure they can find something for him to do, or just buy him out.
From last night, the first 47-ish minutes are a good convo between Bill Simmons and Matt Belloni about all of this...
What I don't think I've heard or seen mentioned, is Skydance would have spent millions doing due diligence before completing the purchase. They may not have wanted to deal with these losses, or possibly someone pissing off half the country and the effect it might have on ratings of other programs.
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The actual numbers beyond the ALL CAPS $40 MILLION LOSS headline
(https://cordcuttersnews.com/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert-was-losing-40-to-50-million-a-year-according-to-reports-as-cord-cutting-grows/)
REVENUE VS SPEND
Revenue for The Late Show dropped from $121.1 million in 2018 to $70.2 million in 2024.
So we have to assume the budget was at least $110 million to have it be a $40 million loss.
But "per year" isn't really accurate because it's only for last year. We can rightfully assume that the revenue was higher in 2023 and before that. At some point, he went from the black to the red and here we are.
OVERALL VIEWS
In overall viewership, Colbert is #1 for Q2-205 with an average of 2.42 million viewers.
Kimmel was second (1.77 million) and Fallon is the one having his ass handed to him (1.19 million average).
But Colbert was at 3.81 million in 2018.
18-49 VIEWERS
Here's the real number. Only 219,000 of his 2.42 million average are 18-49. So either a lot of babies are watching it in the NICU or it's all seniors. Based on his political views, they are all Democratic facing voters. I have no idea if Democratic senior citizens spend less than Republican ones, but Republicans have way fewer lower-income voters, so maybe that's the case.
COLBERT'S BUDGET
As for the budget of the show - over $100 million - there's an article from 2013 that listed that when the Tonight Show as stil in Burbank under Leno before Fallon got it back in 30 Rock, it was costing $76.5 million to produce - not including salaries - an average of $1.7 million a week. $76.5 million in 2013 is worth $106 million today, so it doesn't really seem like Colbert's budget is some outrageous figure, especially since Tonight Show was costing the same to produce in 2013 without Leno's $20 mlillon salary that year - which was half what he used to make before he abdicated to Conan for 10 seconds.
(https://cordcuttersnews.com/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert-was-losing-40-to-50-million-a-year-according-to-reports-as-cord-cutting-grows/)
REVENUE VS SPEND
Revenue for The Late Show dropped from $121.1 million in 2018 to $70.2 million in 2024.
So we have to assume the budget was at least $110 million to have it be a $40 million loss.
But "per year" isn't really accurate because it's only for last year. We can rightfully assume that the revenue was higher in 2023 and before that. At some point, he went from the black to the red and here we are.
OVERALL VIEWS
In overall viewership, Colbert is #1 for Q2-205 with an average of 2.42 million viewers.
Kimmel was second (1.77 million) and Fallon is the one having his ass handed to him (1.19 million average).
But Colbert was at 3.81 million in 2018.
18-49 VIEWERS
Here's the real number. Only 219,000 of his 2.42 million average are 18-49. So either a lot of babies are watching it in the NICU or it's all seniors. Based on his political views, they are all Democratic facing voters. I have no idea if Democratic senior citizens spend less than Republican ones, but Republicans have way fewer lower-income voters, so maybe that's the case.
COLBERT'S BUDGET
As for the budget of the show - over $100 million - there's an article from 2013 that listed that when the Tonight Show as stil in Burbank under Leno before Fallon got it back in 30 Rock, it was costing $76.5 million to produce - not including salaries - an average of $1.7 million a week. $76.5 million in 2013 is worth $106 million today, so it doesn't really seem like Colbert's budget is some outrageous figure, especially since Tonight Show was costing the same to produce in 2013 without Leno's $20 mlillon salary that year - which was half what he used to make before he abdicated to Conan for 10 seconds.
The Original Houston 1836 said:
The actual numbers beyond the ALL CAPS $40 MILLION LOSS headline
(https://cordcuttersnews.com/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert-was-losing-40-to-50-million-a-year-according-to-reports-as-cord-cutting-grows/)
Only 219,000 of his 2.42 million average are 18-49.
Yikes! That definitely explains the loss in revenue as this is the number most companies looking to buy ads are going after. Colbert was picked for this show/time slot to deliver this audience. I don't know of any show outside of a reality dating show or sports that can consistently deliver this demo.
cajunaggie08 said:The Original Houston 1836 said:
The actual numbers beyond the ALL CAPS $40 MILLION LOSS headline
(https://cordcuttersnews.com/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert-was-losing-40-to-50-million-a-year-according-to-reports-as-cord-cutting-grows/)
Only 219,000 of his 2.42 million average are 18-49.
Yikes! That definitely explains the loss in revenue as this is the number most companies looking to buy ads are going after. Colbert was picked for this show/time slot to deliver this audience. I don't know of any show outside of a reality dating show or sports that can consistently deliver this demo.
They saw Colbert's success on Comedy Central and wanted to grab 'The Daily Show' audience thinking it would translate. They made a gamble, and it failed. The formats were very different, and took Colbert out of his element of being purely satire.
The legacy networks are a bit like newspapers trying to compete with the numerous alternatives in today's market. Live sports is one of the few things keeping them relevant. They also can't seem to get out of their own way.
Are the other 2.2 million supposedly 49 and over? That crowd is likely just sleeping through it on the couch and not really watching it either.
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