Burning it after the game is a dumb idea. To the people who worked on it and built the fire burning the bonfire is just so that we can build it again next year. However, if you want to get former students and residents in B/CS to come out and support it. It is an event that symbolizes A&M's burning desire to Beat the Hell Outta tu. We need to treat it as such get former yell leader out there and Jackie Sherril and some football players out there and burn it BEFORE the game. Did they never have burn bans when it was on campus?

Then why not at least burn it the NIGHT of the game.

People would go there more likely than staying till Saturday.

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Did they never have burn bans when it was on campus?

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It was exempt.

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Then why not at least burn it the NIGHT of the game.

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This seems like the best idea, right?

but what do folks do during the game? What compound of Hydrogen, Carbon, and Oxygen is consumed the most while folks are watching the game...especially this game...ethanol.

If the night of the game is the date chosen to Burn, the alcohol policy is going to be very tested.

I would love to see Bonfire burn the night before the game...but there is that yell practice conflict.

So, let me try this again and see if it sticks....

1. Student Bonfire will not violate the burn ban.
2. We have to burn it in the window the court gives us.
3. If the Court says we can't burn it this week, we have to pick another time

Great strides have been made the last couple of years in showing to the authorities that SB is not just a bunch of drunk rednecks or careless renegades in the woods. But that notion still prevails in several circles, unfortunately. Believe me, billydean, everyone wants it to burn and it would be great to burn it on the traditional date. The frustration is very understandable, but to think SB does not know the implications you allude to regarding attendance is absurd. However, if we take the attitude "f-it burn it anyway", then that's pretty much it. No more local support, more obstacles when trying to do business, etc. That stance would be the end and it is not going to happen.

As far as "get former yell leader out there and Jackie Sherril and some football players out there," that's been tried in some form or fashion every year. So far, they have respectfully declined for one reason or another. Got any ideas to make that happen short of kidnapping?

3GA, night of the game is an idea that could be doable and has been discussed. The logistics have to be figured out etc, etc. Right now though, we are hoping the Court gives us the go ahead for a Tues or Wed Burn. Preferably Wed.

Here's why it won't happen Fri, Sat or even Sun night: My understanding is that the Court has to have 72 hours between sessions. They are going to meet Monday at 2. At that meeting, they said they would probably only be willing to give a very short window for burning. If we wanted to try for Fri or Sat, they would need to meet again. 72 hours from Mon at 2 is......Thanksgiving Day. There is no way the Court is going to meet on Thanksgiving nor the day after for that matter. I wouldn't either.

It is what it is. Everyone involved is disappointed but working very hard to have things ready at a moment's notice. They are doing the best the can with what they have to work with. If you want to offer suggestions, by all means, offer them up. Saying "this is dumb, that is dumb" without knowing the entire situation or having an alternative is useless.

I hope everyone comes out, no matter the date, I really do. However, if the date bothers you that much, I would rather you stay home than walk around the crowd spouting out how dumb you think it is.

Scott Coker '92

I thank all for the effort to keep this going.
I know that many were angry when they burned it anyway a few years ago, although nothing bad happened.

If you hope this becomes a permanent site, then ticking off the county officials would not be a good idea.
Actually could not come tonight, but it might work out for Tuesday.

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Right now though, we are hoping the Court gives us the go ahead for a Tues or Wed Burn. Preferably Wed.

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Why would you prefer the day when all of the students will be gone?

That's a recipe for horrible attendance.

That's exactly what I said about last year's Tuesday burn and everybody on here wanted to crucify me.

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Until we are out of survival mode and Bonfire is completely self-sustaining again and the biggest thing in town, we have to take what we can get to keep it going for future generations.

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cant say it any better.

Tues would be best, everyone is gonna be out of town wed

Tues would be best, everyone is gonna be out of town wed

FWIW, burning it anyway would not have affected anyone's stance on Student Bonfire or the Bonfire itself. Everyone pretty much want's it or they don't. The ones that don't probably never experienced Student Bonfire. I'm sure that in 1909 there were some people who didn't want Aggie students to burn an illegal fire in the middle of the night. I'm sure that guy in 1935 didn't want his shed torn down and burned. But it happened, and look what it turned into - a great tradition. If SB chooses to back down and do whatever outsiders (yes, even though they live in the area, they are outsiders) tell them, it will never grow into anthing near what it once was. The administration didn't necessarily WANT to adopt Bonfire. They HAD to because the students wanted it so badly. And the students are the lifeblood of the university, whether the old farts in higher positions like it or not. Everyone can continue to say, "Well it's different now, reputation, PC, etc., etc." Well I say F* that. It's the same. And if we don't start treating it the same, it never will be. Just my $.02, whether it's worth a crap or not. But mark my words. Until Student Bonfire has consistency and stability, it will never grow into a driving force of A&M.

On a side note, I still think Thursday night would by far be the best day to reschedule the burn if it fit inside this "window". I realize the hardest thing would be finding bus drivers if they are on vacation, but Thursday night would be the traditional day, most students and former students could have Thanksgiving dinner and still make it in time, and at some point SB has to start competing with Yell Practice. I say the sooner, the better. If people aren't willing to choose Bonfire over yell practice, they are 99% likely NOT to attend Bonfire anyway. Let me repeat, if someone is not willing to choose Bonfire over some hosed down fake midnight yell practice at 8:30 or whatever time it is, THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T GO TO BONFIRE ANYWAY. Don't be afraid. Attendance may or may not drop in the short term, but it the long run, it would be much much better.

Do you not realize that in order to continue doing what they're doing they need support from a number of people. Saying "to hell with them" isn't going to do anything but cause some serious problems and will damn the project still in it's infancy.

I hope it rains hard Sunday, and Monday morning.

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FWIW, burning it anyway would not have affected anyone's stance on Student Bonfire or the Bonfire itself.

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Don't you get it? It's a BAD thing for the administration to view SB as a criminal operation. It is a much WORSE thing to give them EVIDENCE of such.

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It's the same.

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It is not the same and it SHOULDN'T ever be the same.

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Let me repeat, if someone is not willing to choose Bonfire over some hosed down fake midnight yell practice at 8:30 or whatever time it is, THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T GO TO BONFIRE ANYWAY

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You really want to enter a situation where its "Our tradition is better than yours?"

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FWIW, burning it anyway would not have affected anyone's stance on Student Bonfire or the Bonfire itself. Everyone pretty much want's it or they don't. The ones that don't probably never experienced Student Bonfire. I'm sure that in 1909 there were some people who didn't want Aggie students to burn an illegal fire in the middle of the night. I'm sure that guy in 1935 didn't want his shed torn down and burned. But it happened, and look what it turned into - a great tradition. If SB chooses to back down and do whatever outsiders (yes, even though they live in the area, they are outsiders) tell them, it will never grow into anthing near what it once was. The administration didn't necessarily WANT to adopt Bonfire. They HAD to because the students wanted it so badly. And the students are the lifeblood of the university, whether the old farts in higher positions like it or not. Everyone can continue to say, "Well it's different now, reputation, PC, etc., etc." Well I say F* that. It's the same. And if we don't start treating it the same, it never will be. Just my $.02, whether it's worth a crap or not. But mark my words. Until Student Bonfire has consistency and stability, it will never grow into a driving force of A&M.

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Different circumstances then and now. As much as I agree with you in spirit, I disagree in practice. We HAVE to play ball like they want us to right now. We need the help of these administrators. We need the help of the average business owner who has no connection to Bonfire, but sees what we are doing and helps us. We need the support of the Student Body to get us back where we used to be. These people won't help us if we are the "Renegade Bonfire" that some think we are.

Hats off to Cokeman, Opie and the rest of the board. Godspeed on this.

What bgrimm05 said.

Let's face it- if all it takes for the administration to prevent Student Bonfire is a burn ban, there will be one every year. And if all it takes to keep Bonfire from being scheduled near its traditional time is for the administration to schedule a conflict, bet on one coming up.

I still remember the tshirt that "Bonfire Coalition" wore back in '02 stating that to be "Bonfire," the event had to have faculty approval. Depending on politicians for success or failure when there is a controversy will get you failure.

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if all it takes for the administration to prevent Student Bonfire is a burn ban, there will be one every year. And if all it takes to keep Bonfire from being scheduled near its traditional time is for the administration to schedule a conflict, bet on one coming up.

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This sounds insane.

What in the world does a county burn ban have to do with the admins?

And are you expecting there to be no yell practice for our biggest game of the year?

What makes you think an open fire at the train station in 1907 was "illegal"?

Better yet, what makes you think burning a pile of junk in a field in 1909 was illegal?

It was a different time.

Again I say, mark my words. Play their game, and it will never be a force. Our predecessors played it how they wanted. A&M turned out great because of it. When was the last truly "student" tradition born? Not since we started playing their game.

BTW, of course its not the same. I meant that until we treat it as the same, it never will be. And by "the same", I mean in importance and capacity.

Mark this thread. Years from now, if SB becomes a force by playing it safe, and certain people magically change their mind, I will gladly eat crow. Until then, I will continue to support the purpose just as I have for years, as we all have the same ultimate goal - to see Bonfire strive and be the driving force at A&M.

I work in the general contracting business, and the similarities between that and Bonfire are endless. People try to push us around all of the time, legally and otherwise. If you do not push back, you will dwindle and die. And it hasn't hurt my company's reputation one bit. I'm not saying go give them the finger, throw a beer bottle at them, and say F* your burn ban, but I think it was handled rather well in '05. You've gotta fight back to survive in this world. The one thing SB has going for them is that the purpose is much greater that just to make money. It will still hold on when most businesses would fail.

And yes, I want it to be a "our truely great student run Bonfire is better than your hosed down replacement 8:30 yell practice" type thing. It has to be sooner or later. And if you don't treat it like it's better, it never will be.

grimm, the burn ban in 05 and the burn ban this year are different bears.

In 2005, the ban was in place from the get go and promises were made, then broken at the last minute. It became apparent that brazos county was a hostile environment, especially when Judge Sims was quoted as saying "it's somebody else's problem now," when the unknown deadline for an unneeded permit passed in 2006.

Robertson county has been about the least hostile county that SB could hope for. This burn ban came from conditions, it was always known that with a long enough dry spell it would come around, nobody ever made the promise that Bonfire could burn under a burn ban this year...timing was just unfortunate.

It's raining in Black Jack, Texas right now...it'll work.

If Student Bonfire were to continue to scoff laws and blatantly disregard safety, support would drop out from anyone that doesn't want to be connected to an illegal activity...which would be a majority of the world.

Student Bonfire must "play by their rules" while it builds support. The chances that the university takes control of Bonfire again because they want control over what happens is very very slim...However, the chances that the university supports Bonfire again because of financial reasons (as in, TAMU finds out they have something to gain) are pretty good, and get better as the support grows.


[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 11/17/2007 6:16p).]

Good points Rebel, but look at reality. If we have problems with burn every single year, Joe Aggie will not support Bonfire. Period. Its the 10/10 rule. A certain percentage will support Bonfire no matter what and a certain percentage will hate Bonfire no matter what. You have to look at it from the middle percentage's point of view and try to persuade them.

Had we decided to go PC and not burn it in '05 with the burn ban, that would be 3 YEARS in a row that Joe Aggie could not see it burn - 2 because of burn bans and 1 because it was on a Tuesday night. Your average former student will not come down on a Tuesday night until it really does get as big is ol' army Bonfire. Even then, there were thousands less people at the away game fires.

But your average Aggie probably wouldn't even know there was a burn ban and that fines were paid if a big deal wasn't made about it. If they did, they probably wouldn't care. The ones that feel strongly about it never returning will care, but your not changing their minds anyway.

I keep hearing stuff like "while it grows support" or "it's still in its infantile stage". My lord people, its been 6 years. It's not like their was a clean slate to work with. There was 90 years of tradition to work with. It's not going to grow support if there are major problems every year, whether their SB's fault or not.

You've got to be kidding bgrimm. How long would you stay in business if you continually built without a permit or didn't follow the proper codes? If the Fire Marshall tells you you can't open a building until the alarm is finished, do you say "F that! Let's open up anyway."?

You are right, though, the more consistent, the more following it will get. But, like it or not, SB is still a young organization that is learning as it goes how to play ball in the business world. It may have been 6 years since what started in 2002 that led to this, but this version of it is entirely different and on a larger scale with the need for more support. No offense to those who started that up; without that drive we wouldn't be where we are and you deserve thanks for that. You guys know what I am saying and I think you agree, so chime in to finish my statement.

Yes, SB does need to push back on some things, it lets itself get pushed around by the media especially and by outside parties that make absolutely false statements to them. Some pushing needs to happen there. But antagonizing a County Judge and an entire Commissioner's Court is nothing but trouble and not something smart to do.



Scott Coker '92

Coker, having helped start OC Bonfire in 2002, I do not take offense to what you said. It has changed, and chaged for the better. Luckily for me, I have had the opportunity to have watched and helped coach that change.

4 years of Aggie Students know how to build Bonfire. Whoever it may be may hold back Bonfire for 3 years, and there will still be a group of Aggies who know how to build it. That is something that the guys and girls I worked with in '01 and '02 couldn't have ever dreamed of. That is amazing.

SB has achieved things that the founders could never have dreamed of. It's non-profit. The government has said that the aimes of Student Bonfire are noble enough to warrant that status and people can donate to SB's cause and write it off. Students can volunteer to work on Bonfire without the fear of "spies" from the administration that we feared while organizing Bonfire in '02. The leaders of Bonfire have raised enough money in the off-season to fund Bonfire, regardless of the attendance or "door numbers". In short, OC Bonfire is a dream come true.

OC Bonfire went from the "renegade bonfie" that was a bunch of logs laid down on the ground and set on fire to a vertical stack that is fully funded and built by thousands of Aggies.

That's Bonfire.

-------------------------------------------------------
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

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You have to look at it from the middle percentage's point of view and try to persuade them.

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You're not going to gain anybody's support by being an ass who ignores the rules in place and by going directly against the laws and wishes of the community.

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You have to look at it from the middle percentage's point of view and try to persuade them.

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If you were stuck in the middle, or "on the fence" (or however you want to put it) over the issue of Bonfire as it is done today which scenario would be more likely to persuade you to hop over the fence and join?

Setup:
The organization faces strong opposition from the county, neighbors, and some Former Students. It also continuously runs in the red financially because of the huge overhead it incurs trying to remain as close to campus as it can (Hot Rod Hill). While it is in a hostile county, the point comes where they one day say F* them and knowingly and willfully break the law. You begin to view the organization as a bunch of irresponsible college students and begin to buy into the "drunken" stereotype. A few years later:

1) The same organization repeats the blatant disregard for the law, the burn ban, and the safety of all of it's spectators and neighbors. How does this affect your seat on the fence?

2) The same organization, now larger and no longer quite as financially crippled due to a growing support, makes every effort to work with the county to make a successful event that shows every respect for its neighbors, spectators, and even opponents. These students make the mature decision to risk their most successful Burn yet to ensure the safety of their neighbors, spectators, and even opponents. They choose to conduct business within the law, and continue to build their relationship with the county that has welcomed them. How does this change your views of them?



It just so happens, in my personal opinion, that both of these events are transpiring for the best possible outcome. In 2005, Student Bonfire was just a group of students that were a small annoyance to a few, but they could easily be quieted if need be...but they fought back, they did not sit and take their medicine and they garnered much more attention than they ever could have just following the law. It would be interesting to see how many people started folling SB (positive or negative) during the quarter year saga that was Bonfire 2005...(maybe having a flame retardant pine fire wasn't so bad). When faced with a similar situation in 2007, many probably expected Student Bonfire to repeat their decision, but got surprised. Because of the events in 2005 and the similar situation this year, the news coverage seems to have picked up quite a bit, and it is no longer all in a negative light.

Big things will happen, just wait. I think the only thing that could make things better right now, is if someone was to gratiously donate use of a plot of land right along SH6...*hint*hint*

<<holy crap, it all took too long to type and now it looks like I agreed with []1...damnit...ah well, maybe he's come around>>

[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 11/17/2007 11:06p).]

Before we decide this is a total loss, we have to remeber -- it's not really about the burn at all, folks. That's just the final act in a long string of character building events and leadership opportunities. If this year's stack never burns, it's not a big loss.

My hubby was a red back in the 70's. Shortly after the stack was lit and yell practice was over, we'd leave Duncan. He had no desire to hang around. The weeks and months of living the tradition had ended, and the fire was not the memorable event it is too often made out to be. Those who build the stack know that the true experience of bonfire takes place long before there's ever a spark. The fire is just for the spectators.

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Before we decide this is a total loss, we have to remeber -- it's not really about the burn at all, folks. That's just the final act in a long string of character building events and leadership opportunities. If this year's stack never burns, it's not a big loss.

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Burn matters immensely to SB in the sense that they're out roughly 40K if that thing doesn't burn and people don't go out to see it. The event has to happen in order for the organization to stay afloat.

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they're out roughly 40K if that thing doesn't burn and people don't go out to see it.

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you should go check the books this year...

Good news, based on radar stack was slammed with rain tonight. I bet it is back on for this week.

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Our predecessors played it how they wanted.

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And the result of that was 12 people losing their lives.

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And yes, I want it to be a "our truely great student run Bonfire is better than your hosed down replacement 8:30 yell practice" type thing.

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This is a horrible idea. There shouldn't ever be an alternative to yell practice.

First of all, Student Bonfire is not and probably will never be the same force that bonfire used to be. I am not trying to be negative, merely realistic. We live in a different world. We have to cooperate with officials so that we can be seen as an element that the university happily accepts when the time comes to move back on campus.

Second, I would like to know what will happen for next if for some reason, we were not able to burn this year or i attendance was low enough that expenses are nowhere near covered?

Cokeman and others, hth...

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I'm not saying go give them the finger, throw a beer bottle at them, and say F* your burn ban, but I think it was handled rather well in '05.

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I think some people are missing the point. If regular former students are unable to see burn for 2, 3, or 4 years, it's just gonna be a joke to them. Nobody ever knows if it's gonna burn on a Saturday or Tuesday or Thursday or when. I'm sorry, but I've heard a lot of people say this. Yes, for those who build it, its all about cut, load, and stack. You just burn it so you can build it again next year. But for those who didn't build this year, its all about coming out to burn and reminiscing about the greatest 4, 5, or more years of their life. I was a little disheartened to learn I would not make it to burn last year because it was on a Tuesday night. Now I learn that I may or may not be able to come to burn this year again. It's pretty frustrating, whether its SB's fault or not. And I believe that people who don't know anything about it and are waivering whether or not to come just view it as SB not know what they are doing. I'm sorry, but that unfortunately is reality. Remember, in most of my previous posts I tried to look at it as if I was never involved, or involved very little in SB, so its not necessarily exactly the way I feel about it. An ingnorant person who doesn't know anything about it probably would hear some rumors of a burn ban, etc. and wouldn't realize how big of a deal it was if it was handled properly. They see an event that is scheduled on a different day every year, has really burned well only twice, and the logistics of burn night have a lot to be desired. I realize this is the hardest thing the SB leadership has done in their life, but this is the harsh reality. And for those of you who do view SB that way, I assure you that you are wrong. Cut, load, and stack at SB are as real as it gets. Lifelong frieds are made and the Aggie Spirit is in full force at Bonfire. Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of Aggies realize this.

bgrimm, I get what you are saying and you are right in many aspects. The discussion about inconsistencies and years with no burn has been had several times.

There are exemptions and things that can be done to get around a burn ban, but those are not an option this year. The main hold back is finding a suitable location that can give us that consistency and make those options available. We are too close to the woods for those considerations currently. SB needs to get serious at looking into these options for the coming years, no doubt.

Scott Coker '92

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SB has achieved things that the founders could never have dreamed of. It's non-profit. The government has said that the aimes of Student Bonfire are noble enough to warrant that status and people can donate to SB's cause and write it off. Students can volunteer to work on Bonfire without the fear of "spies" from the administration that we feared while organizing Bonfire in '02. The leaders of Bonfire have raised enough money in the off-season to fund Bonfire, regardless of the attendance or "door numbers". In short, OC Bonfire is a dream come true.

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Awesome! I'm glad to see this progress is being made!