I would bet my life on who three or so of the people were and yes they were ***former*** leadership of Student Bonfire and as a member of student bonfire it dissapointed me. But then again I probablly don't know anything about sacrifice, honor, courage, or commitment.
Bonfire Remembrance
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Last: 17 yr ago by wareagle044
My son lost two friends that day. We mourned with their families. And we attended the memorials. And I still get teary eyed when I hear the Band or sing the Spirit. We are a family of 18 Aggies since 1924.
I don't want this to sound callous or inappropriate but I recall watching a program a few years back about how some young people today are searching for rituals. The moderator felt that our society has taken away from some of the usual solemn rituals that hold families together: Baccalaureate services, graduation ceremonies, family holidays and dinners are a few that in some cases have become less important. Older style traditions such as May poles, "secret" society initiations, etc. have almost disappeared. This program talked about how young people need some form of organized ritual in their lives. I'm not sure why this is. It was an interesting thought.
Maybe the young men who "acted out" were searching for some purpose in their own lives and this memorial was a reminder to them of ow important it is to take life seriously lest your life have no meaning.
I can't speak for them. But I feel young people are not so willing to accept tragedy. The older we get, the more tragedies we witness, the more we expect them to occur.
Dylan Thomas expressed it best in his poem:
Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
-- Dylan Thomas
I don't want this to sound callous or inappropriate but I recall watching a program a few years back about how some young people today are searching for rituals. The moderator felt that our society has taken away from some of the usual solemn rituals that hold families together: Baccalaureate services, graduation ceremonies, family holidays and dinners are a few that in some cases have become less important. Older style traditions such as May poles, "secret" society initiations, etc. have almost disappeared. This program talked about how young people need some form of organized ritual in their lives. I'm not sure why this is. It was an interesting thought.
Maybe the young men who "acted out" were searching for some purpose in their own lives and this memorial was a reminder to them of ow important it is to take life seriously lest your life have no meaning.
I can't speak for them. But I feel young people are not so willing to accept tragedy. The older we get, the more tragedies we witness, the more we expect them to occur.
Dylan Thomas expressed it best in his poem:
Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
-- Dylan Thomas
brutHART07....
You have a lot to learn young man. A lot to learn.
When Bonfire was built on campus, the only praise a bonfire builder (fish, piss head leaders, all the way up to the reds) needed was the self confidence that came from building the fire. Nothing more. You celebrate in your own way, to yourself, not to anyone else. After 1999 we learned to apply this same tactic to mourning. Mourn in your own way, and don't question how others mourn.
If you, and other current/former leaders of student bonfire feel the need to yell and chant or whatever at the annual memorial, maybe you should question why you are involved with the fire. Are you involved for your own self vanity? Or are you involved because you truly love the fire?
You have a lot to learn young man. A lot to learn.
When Bonfire was built on campus, the only praise a bonfire builder (fish, piss head leaders, all the way up to the reds) needed was the self confidence that came from building the fire. Nothing more. You celebrate in your own way, to yourself, not to anyone else. After 1999 we learned to apply this same tactic to mourning. Mourn in your own way, and don't question how others mourn.
If you, and other current/former leaders of student bonfire feel the need to yell and chant or whatever at the annual memorial, maybe you should question why you are involved with the fire. Are you involved for your own self vanity? Or are you involved because you truly love the fire?
Brut,
Go back and read what you posted and try for just a second to think that wasn't one of the most over-dramatic, cooked up pieces of garbage I've ever read on here. Maybe you need to go find a church. Bonfire was Bonfire, and it meant a lot to a lot of people, especially after '99. But to think there's some sort of spiritual element in there and telling people how to pray to your deity, then you're getting a bit ridiculous.
Go back and read what you posted and try for just a second to think that wasn't one of the most over-dramatic, cooked up pieces of garbage I've ever read on here. Maybe you need to go find a church. Bonfire was Bonfire, and it meant a lot to a lot of people, especially after '99. But to think there's some sort of spiritual element in there and telling people how to pray to your deity, then you're getting a bit ridiculous.
quote:
sox, if i were you, i wouldn't speak on things you don't understand.
Sox was here in 1999. Perhaps YOU shouldn't be speaking on things you don't understand.
quote:
however, to those who know what duty, honor, and sacrifice mean, your opinion means little more than a half-thought battalion mail call.
Don't even begin to lecture the older generation on these things. Duty, honor and sacrifice weren't invented in 2003.
quote:
if people who want to bury memories and tradition were offended by such actions at the memorial, they can get over themselves.
How immature could you possibly be? Your attitude is STRAIGHT out of the Linbeck report about why the culture we had allowed something like 1999 to happen. You should read it.
quote:
i challenge anyone....try to stop us. i dare you. we will never stop honoring, we will never stop celebrating, and we will never stop building. try it....there is so much pride and tradition pumping through the veins of the Aggie family that has yet to be realized by anyone...the quickest way to get results out of an Aggie is to tell them it can't be done. before any of you judge, attempt to experience the awesome power of the Aggie Spirit. your life will be changed, i promise.
Son, a lot of us were experiencing that when you were in grade school.
No one is telling you not to honor.
No one is telling you not to celebrate.
People are telling you have to some sense of tact and respect.
Perhaps you should consider that instead of attacking us.
Dear Aggies
Scott's Mom and I were at centerpole on the 18th and continue to be overwhelmed by the response and support of the Aggie family. We attend every year to remember Scott, the Bonfire traditon he belived in and the fun and strength he drew from Bonfire, the Corp and the University. The young men mentioned in this thread are not members of any of the families that were present. We have learned that each person reacts and mourns in his own way and respect their feelings. We were also aware that the young men had consumed a fair amount of adult beverages. We are confident that the Aggie community will decide as to the appropriateness of their actions. I cannot speak for all of the families, however those that I know feel that our children did not sacrfice themselves for the tradition. Their sacrifices were of there time and efforts while building Bonfire and they would not have knowingly placed themselves in peril. The type of sacrfice mention that evening should be reserved for our troops and first reponders. The respect shown to us every Nov. 18th by the participation of so many members of the Aggie family continues to amaze us. I cannot tell you the lift it gives us when the Aggie War Hymn echos from the hill surrounding the memorial. Now that, Scott would have loved.We will continue to attend until the wheels fall off of the wheel chair or the until the nurses at the retirement center tie us to the bed. Don't be to hard on the four young men, I believe they felt they were doing the right thing.
Scott's Mom and I were at centerpole on the 18th and continue to be overwhelmed by the response and support of the Aggie family. We attend every year to remember Scott, the Bonfire traditon he belived in and the fun and strength he drew from Bonfire, the Corp and the University. The young men mentioned in this thread are not members of any of the families that were present. We have learned that each person reacts and mourns in his own way and respect their feelings. We were also aware that the young men had consumed a fair amount of adult beverages. We are confident that the Aggie community will decide as to the appropriateness of their actions. I cannot speak for all of the families, however those that I know feel that our children did not sacrfice themselves for the tradition. Their sacrifices were of there time and efforts while building Bonfire and they would not have knowingly placed themselves in peril. The type of sacrfice mention that evening should be reserved for our troops and first reponders. The respect shown to us every Nov. 18th by the participation of so many members of the Aggie family continues to amaze us. I cannot tell you the lift it gives us when the Aggie War Hymn echos from the hill surrounding the memorial. Now that, Scott would have loved.We will continue to attend until the wheels fall off of the wheel chair or the until the nurses at the retirement center tie us to the bed. Don't be to hard on the four young men, I believe they felt they were doing the right thing.
We second everything the West's said! Our kids loved Aggieland and all it and it's traditions stand for. None of them would have been out there if they thought they might die. They were all too smart to risk such a thing. Grief is a very personal thing and large amounts of alcohol do strange things to our inhibitions. If any of you know any of the four young men personally I would love the chance to talk to them.
Gig'Em & God Bless
Gig'Em & God Bless
If you're going to get trashed on the night of the anniversary, please stay at home.
Can we delete all the messages in this thread except the three above this one? Those pretty much sum it up.
Scott Coker '92
Scott Coker '92
What scott said.
as for brutHART07
until you have served in my beloved Marine Corps or in another of the armed services, don't ever talk about duty, honor, or sacrifice. I was a fish in '99. so I remember just a touch of how things were. don't try to make something out of nothing. some things should just be memorials, not podiums for promoting agendas.
as for brutHART07
quote:
however, to those who know what duty, honor, and sacrifice mean, your opinion means little more than a half-thought battalion mail call.
until you have served in my beloved Marine Corps or in another of the armed services, don't ever talk about duty, honor, or sacrifice. I was a fish in '99. so I remember just a touch of how things were. don't try to make something out of nothing. some things should just be memorials, not podiums for promoting agendas.
glad you all are coming out to muzzle the fool
quote:
sox, if i were you, i wouldn't speak on things you don't understand.
brutHART07 - you might be an aggie - and you may well have a lot of aggie spirit... however, use caution when telling someone that they have no understanding of something...
You look to be class of 2007 - which means that you were a freshman when '02, the last class to see a bonfire burn, had graduated (or were at least 5th years.)
If you look at my name, i'm 2005 - and i have no idea the true spirit of what bonfire was meant... not as truly as someone who had been there before me. And neither do you.
Student bonfire is a great way to keep a tradition alive - and i'm glad to see someone make it happen. But like it or not - There's a reason it's called "student" bonfire and not "Aggie" bonfire now -
the only people who really remember what aggie bonfire was about is the class of 2003 and before - and even the class of 2003, bonfire took a different meaning for them as freshmen...
so don't give us that crap about how much you understand what bonfire is about - because truly, you don't. and neither do I...
Sox is right... don't romanticize a horrible tragedy... Bonfire was not and will never be worth dying for.
I don't think it's so much that they couldn't understand the spirit of Bonfire as it is they don't understand the gravity of the collapse.
It's easy for those of us who were around in '99 to look at the fallen as peers, and their families as our own. I think the newer classes are understandably more detached from the humanisitic aspect. That said... boys, get your egos in check.
This ceremony should be about remembering the loss that night and sharing the grief with the families. It isn't about the history of Bonfire; it isn't about the future of Bonfire. Leave this for them.
[This message has been edited by buildthehell02 (edited 11/22/2007 12:44a).]
It's easy for those of us who were around in '99 to look at the fallen as peers, and their families as our own. I think the newer classes are understandably more detached from the humanisitic aspect. That said... boys, get your egos in check.
This ceremony should be about remembering the loss that night and sharing the grief with the families. It isn't about the history of Bonfire; it isn't about the future of Bonfire. Leave this for them.
[This message has been edited by buildthehell02 (edited 11/22/2007 12:44a).]
nm
[This message has been edited by CavJock07 (edited 12/4/2007 12:20a).]
[This message has been edited by CavJock07 (edited 12/4/2007 12:20a).]
[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 12/6/2007 4:38p).]
thank you.
quote:
Sox was here in 1999. Perhaps YOU shouldn't be speaking on things you don't understand.
Thanks to NoAC and others for setting him straight.
When I read his post, I was so, for lack of a more appropriate word, pissed. But the following posts reassured me that the majority of the Aggie family is level-headed, understands the value of life, and knows how to properly commemorate it.
Sox '00
I cited this in another thread. Some people are looking at Bonfire as a living memorial now. HART07 further proves that point.
Hart 07, If you help build student Bonfire, you are building a big fire. That is it. Are you having a great time? Yes. Are you bonding with your fellow students? Yes. Are you working as a team to accomplish something bigger than yourselves? Yes.
These are the things that made all Bonfires fun and why people built them. However, you are not building a living memorial. You are not "harnessing the powers of the Aggie Spirit."
Aggie Spirit was shown so much more the day after Bonfire feel than it ever was building the thing. Aggie Spirit was students staying up for 22 straight hours at out that stack waiting for news about their friends and family. It was students standing in front of news cameras so families would not be filmed getting the bad news. It was prayer circles and friends holding each other as they cried. It was people leaving their rings on a flag pole/makeshift memorial knowing nobody would steal them. It was the football team hauling out logs on their back. It was the nice lady who bought me and my buddy dinner that weekend just because she knew what we were going through. She didn't know me but she stopped me and asked how we were doing. She told me she drove in just to be here with us.
If you think building a fire is what makes the Aggie Spirit great, you learned nothing about it yet.
Oh, and I helped build three Bonfires, spent 4 years in the Corps of Cadets, 4 years in the Army and 1 year in iraq. I really doubt you should be calling out people for lacking anything especially duty, honor and sacrifice.
Out of respect for the family on this thread, I have tempered what I really wanted to say to you.
[This message has been edited by Federale01 (edited 11/23/2007 12:29a).]
Hart 07, If you help build student Bonfire, you are building a big fire. That is it. Are you having a great time? Yes. Are you bonding with your fellow students? Yes. Are you working as a team to accomplish something bigger than yourselves? Yes.
These are the things that made all Bonfires fun and why people built them. However, you are not building a living memorial. You are not "harnessing the powers of the Aggie Spirit."
Aggie Spirit was shown so much more the day after Bonfire feel than it ever was building the thing. Aggie Spirit was students staying up for 22 straight hours at out that stack waiting for news about their friends and family. It was students standing in front of news cameras so families would not be filmed getting the bad news. It was prayer circles and friends holding each other as they cried. It was people leaving their rings on a flag pole/makeshift memorial knowing nobody would steal them. It was the football team hauling out logs on their back. It was the nice lady who bought me and my buddy dinner that weekend just because she knew what we were going through. She didn't know me but she stopped me and asked how we were doing. She told me she drove in just to be here with us.
If you think building a fire is what makes the Aggie Spirit great, you learned nothing about it yet.
Oh, and I helped build three Bonfires, spent 4 years in the Corps of Cadets, 4 years in the Army and 1 year in iraq. I really doubt you should be calling out people for lacking anything especially duty, honor and sacrifice.
Out of respect for the family on this thread, I have tempered what I really wanted to say to you.
[This message has been edited by Federale01 (edited 11/23/2007 12:29a).]
People like brutHART07 honest to God make me sick. I wasn't around in '99, but I do know that Bonfire was about friendship, trust, and camaraderie, three vital parts of the Aggie Spirit.
Scottsdad & Timsparents, my thoughts and prayers are truly with you this holiday season.
Scottsdad & Timsparents, my thoughts and prayers are truly with you this holiday season.
I agree with Sox. As much as I miss the tradition of Bonfire. I don't think it's worth dying for. I was a sophmore at the time Bonfire fell. I was fortunate to see one bonfire as a student. However, I don't think that student bonfire is a good thing and I'm disgusted about what i'm hearing that happened at the memorial service. My heart breaks for the families who lost their sons and daughters from Bonfire. I don't think any of can understand their grief and loss. As much as I would love for Bonfire to come back to campus I don't think we will ever see it return.
quote:
However, I don't think that student bonfire is a good thing and I'm disgusted about what i'm hearing that happened at the memorial service.
Let me just remind everyone that there is no confirmation that these guys were affiliated with Student Bonfire.
Naturally, there are lots of mixed emotions about the organization, but please don't let this be a reason on your list of cons. Let us remember that not everyone in an organization is perfect; everyone makes mistakes. Unfortunately this one was very offensive. However, there are still no direct links to Student Bonfire, thank God.
ssolari94
Joined:
Jul 9, 2005
Posts:
6,386
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Jayci, if it turns out that they were connected to SB, as one poster suggested, would it be legitimate for people to add this to their reasons for being opposed to student bonfire?
[]1 . . . no, it wouldn't.
SB is made up of individuals.
I would say that the overwhelming condemnation of these peoples' actions by members of SB should show you that this type of thing is not acceptable to the group. Condemning all of SB for a few idiots (who may or may not be members of SB) misguided actions is like condemning all Aggies as racists for the Youtube video tape that surfaced a few years ago. Those tools weren't representative of Aggies and the 4 idiots at the Memorial are not representative of SB.
SB is made up of individuals.
I would say that the overwhelming condemnation of these peoples' actions by members of SB should show you that this type of thing is not acceptable to the group. Condemning all of SB for a few idiots (who may or may not be members of SB) misguided actions is like condemning all Aggies as racists for the Youtube video tape that surfaced a few years ago. Those tools weren't representative of Aggies and the 4 idiots at the Memorial are not representative of SB.
And nobody's afraid of Muslims on airplanes...
Sorry guys, unfortunately the actions of one does have the ability to reflect on the whole.
Sorry guys, unfortunately the actions of one does have the ability to reflect on the whole.
Peoples' irrational fear of Muslims aside, you asked if it was a "legitimate" reason. The answer is still "no." That doesn't mean that folks won't stereotype the whole group based on the actions of a few . . . but then, why should SB be any different from any other group of people. Unfortunately, most people don't understand that just because all 'A' is 'B' and some 'B' is 'C' that it doesn't necessarily mean that any 'A' is 'C.'
But you know that, don't you. You just like to stir the pot.
But you know that, don't you. You just like to stir the pot.
If that's the case, then why do many of you even give a damn if these people were involved with SB at all? Hell, let em be on the board for all it matters. If they're individuals and their actions can no way be traced back to the organization, then why should anybody in the organization care a lick?
You would care because it would be embarassing and look bad for SB, whether that's right or wrong isn't for me or you to decide. It is what it is.
You would care because it would be embarassing and look bad for SB, whether that's right or wrong isn't for me or you to decide. It is what it is.
quote:
And nobody's afraid of Muslims on airplanes...
quote:
If that's the case, then why do many of you even give a damn if these people were involved with SB at all? Hell, let em be on the board for all it matters. If they're individuals and their actions can no way be traced back to the organization, then why should anybody in the organization care a lick?
You would care because it would be embarassing and look bad for SB, whether that's right or wrong isn't for me or you to decide. It is what it is
Come on, Terry. You are smarter than this. Of course people care. It is embarrassing and does look bad for SB, whether these people are members of SB, or if they are not but people outside the group think they are. Why? Because it is not representative of the way the members of SB should act.
If the members of SB didn't speak out against this or allowed people who act this way to be, or continue to be, official representatives of the group that would be tantamount to legitimizing it. This is why, as you continually point out, certain individuals have been removed from their positions for making statements here that many others have stated are not representative of that individual's actual beliefs.
Again, you have provided no reason why anything these people have done should be a "legitimate" reason for looking down upon SB. You have only stated that it will, so deal with it. I continue to say that it is not a "legitimate" reason, but agree with you that it likely will be used by some as a reason to dislike SB.
Unfortunately, I think that if it's true that the people acting like irreverent drunken fools at the memorial were members of SB, then that is a legitimate reason to frown upon the organization.
I've said it so many times here before and I'll say it again...if SB has created in any way a culture permissive of this behavior, then yes, that's a legitimate reason for some to look negatively on SB.
I personally would not use this as a way to justify my feelings towards SB but others are.
I've said it so many times here before and I'll say it again...if SB has created in any way a culture permissive of this behavior, then yes, that's a legitimate reason for some to look negatively on SB.
I personally would not use this as a way to justify my feelings towards SB but others are.
I would say it is a legitimate reason to frown on those individuals.
It is not a legitimate reason to frown on SB, Texas A&M, Texas, the United States, their individual religious organizations, the whole of their race, their dorm, or any other organization or group to which they may belong.
The key here, Terry, is legitimacy. If these folks are member of SB and were at an official SB function where they were encouraged to partake of adult beverage to excess and then were encouraged to go to the memorial and act like tools then, yes, it is a legitimate reason to look down on SB and SB needs to take a serious look at itself.
If these people chose on their own to drink to excess and then chose on their own to act this way then it is a legitimate reason to condemn the actions of the individuals only. SB is not responsible for every action of every individual involved with the organization any more than Texas A&M as a whole is responsible for thier actions that night.
"you can't hold a whole [student organization] responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole [student organizational] system? And if the whole . . . system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, [Terry] - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!"
It is not a legitimate reason to frown on SB, Texas A&M, Texas, the United States, their individual religious organizations, the whole of their race, their dorm, or any other organization or group to which they may belong.
The key here, Terry, is legitimacy. If these folks are member of SB and were at an official SB function where they were encouraged to partake of adult beverage to excess and then were encouraged to go to the memorial and act like tools then, yes, it is a legitimate reason to look down on SB and SB needs to take a serious look at itself.
If these people chose on their own to drink to excess and then chose on their own to act this way then it is a legitimate reason to condemn the actions of the individuals only. SB is not responsible for every action of every individual involved with the organization any more than Texas A&M as a whole is responsible for thier actions that night.
"you can't hold a whole [student organization] responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole [student organizational] system? And if the whole . . . system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, [Terry] - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!"
this is just getting ridiculous now...
Shame on whoever it was that did this, and hopefully you didn't bring too much disgrace to yourself or the groups you're affiliated with.
Shame on whoever it was that did this, and hopefully you didn't bring too much disgrace to yourself or the groups you're affiliated with.
That we can agree on!
*edit - What's ridiculous? The quote? It's from Animal House. A great movie and a quote that I thought appropriate to lighten the situation.
[This message has been edited by kip (edited 11/25/2007 6:36p).]
*edit - What's ridiculous? The quote? It's from Animal House. A great movie and a quote that I thought appropriate to lighten the situation.
[This message has been edited by kip (edited 11/25/2007 6:36p).]
Ok, I'm open to suggestions. What else can be done here? I still don't know for sure if it was SB members, as by the time I got to the front, the yelling had stopped. So all I can do is speculate.
These actions have been repeatedly condemned here (and elsewhere I may add) even before the mention of the possibility SB members being involved. But let's assume it was SB members. I'll apologize for any offense caused and assure everyone that reads this that the type of behavior exhibited is not instilled through SB. Typically, SB tries to maintain a respectable low profile at the memorial. We in no way want to take away from that solemn moment by thrusting something that those affected by the collapse may not agree with nor want any part of. Usually, the members of SB are sent to the memorial from a Stack shift with the words: "go, remember why you are there, reflect on what happened on that field and show your respects. Please leave your SB stuff at home."
Other than that, there is really little SB can do. Its members are free to do what they choose, especially the former members. I am not going to tell someone how to mourn/grieve. As mentioned, everyone has their own way whether I agree with it or not. I am sure those involved thought they were doing the right thing in their own way and I bet they didn't think they were there in a SB capacity. So, I am not going to shun them, but I'll just hope it doesn't happen again.
Scott Coker '92
These actions have been repeatedly condemned here (and elsewhere I may add) even before the mention of the possibility SB members being involved. But let's assume it was SB members. I'll apologize for any offense caused and assure everyone that reads this that the type of behavior exhibited is not instilled through SB. Typically, SB tries to maintain a respectable low profile at the memorial. We in no way want to take away from that solemn moment by thrusting something that those affected by the collapse may not agree with nor want any part of. Usually, the members of SB are sent to the memorial from a Stack shift with the words: "go, remember why you are there, reflect on what happened on that field and show your respects. Please leave your SB stuff at home."
Other than that, there is really little SB can do. Its members are free to do what they choose, especially the former members. I am not going to tell someone how to mourn/grieve. As mentioned, everyone has their own way whether I agree with it or not. I am sure those involved thought they were doing the right thing in their own way and I bet they didn't think they were there in a SB capacity. So, I am not going to shun them, but I'll just hope it doesn't happen again.
Scott Coker '92
Teerrryyy Berrryyyyy...
You said
I say:
You said:
And I say:
You said:
I say:
SUMMARY: What Kip said. Sorry
I think it sucks that the actions of few can be generalized for an organization. But obviously that doesn't mean that it won't happen. And really, the culture is slowly fading away, Terry. Moses is gone, for the most part...their space on campus is limited. I cannot think of a single incident this year (so far) that has involved dorm destruction...being linked with SB members, anyway. It seems like those influences are fading away, thank God. Is it possible that the organization could be taking a turn for the good as far as the "culture" goes?
You said
quote:
Jayci, if it turns out that they were connected to SB, as one poster suggested, would it be legitimate for people to add this to their reasons for being opposed to student bonfire?
I say:
quote:
Peoples' irrational fear of Muslims aside, you asked if it was a "legitimate" reason. The answer is still "no." That doesn't mean that folks won't stereotype the whole group based on the actions of a few . . .
You said:
quote:
If that's the case, then why do many of you even give a damn if these people were involved with SB at all? Hell, let em be on the board for all it matters. If they're individuals and their actions can no way be traced back to the organization, then why should anybody in the organization care a lick?
And I say:
quote:
If the members of SB didn't speak out against this or allowed people who act this way to be, or continue to be, official representatives of the group that would be tantamount to legitimizing it. This is why, as you continually point out, certain individuals have been removed from their positions for making statements here that many others have stated are not representative of that individual's actual beliefs.
You said:
quote:
Unfortunately, I think that if it's true that the people acting like irreverent drunken fools at the memorial were members of SB, then that is a legitimate reason to frown upon the organization.
I say:
quote:
I would say it is a legitimate reason to frown on those individuals.
SUMMARY: What Kip said. Sorry
I think it sucks that the actions of few can be generalized for an organization. But obviously that doesn't mean that it won't happen. And really, the culture is slowly fading away, Terry. Moses is gone, for the most part...their space on campus is limited. I cannot think of a single incident this year (so far) that has involved dorm destruction...being linked with SB members, anyway. It seems like those influences are fading away, thank God. Is it possible that the organization could be taking a turn for the good as far as the "culture" goes?
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