I honestly don't know. I suspect it would be harder since word-of-mouth travels faster in small groups like you have in the dorms. That said, The Hogs get a decent number out and they use word of mouth and only a few of them live together, that and the advent of things like facebook and text messaging have made spreading the word about things much easier than it was in my day. <insert comment by Lew here>

If the dorms were all completely leveled and everyone forced to move off-campus, sure, recruiting strategies would change. However, there would still be places students congregate, friendships would be made and someone would mention "hey let's go see what this Bonfire stuff is all about."

If only the older dorms are leveled to give way to the coeds like you mentioned in your original assertion, then I think the residents that are not graduating would try and form some kind of group within whatever dorm they land. Look at Moses. They were essentially torn apart and yet managed to pull just as many, if not more, from the new residents this year. (side note: And they did it without all "rape and pillage" talk that was going on at the beginning of this year. Maybe that's a sign that some of the *culture* is changing?)

Scott Coker '92

As far as Bonfire coming back to Campus, that will remain to be seen. I do know that if The University decides to bring it back, they are not going to come to SB with hat in hand and ask for our holy blessing on Bonfire. Some of the main goals of SB are to insure that the knowledge, experiences, and spirit that go along with the tradition are not lost. So, if that knowledge gets carried back to campus with the students that are around when/if it happens, then we have accomplished something.

I will bet on one thing, though. Even if Bonfire is never brought back to campus, once the University (and its lawyers) feels like it can actually mention SB publicly, they won't speak out negatively. I submit that they will wait for several successful years, then use it in marketing literature to say "See, look at the drive and determination we foster here at Texas A&M have"

Scott Coker '92

[This message has been edited by COKEMAN (edited 12/12/2007 8:47p).]

I completely agree with the "recruiting strategy changes" of facebook and even texags, hell it worked for me with Lechner. While I agree that piquing someone interest and convincing them to come out is not as effective as the dorm mentality some exhibit of slamming it down residents throats, it DOES produce results. One thing doesn't change, students are always curious, the hard part is convincing them to give it a shot. Not everyone who gives it a shot keeps coming out, but the person who never heard about it or never tried never comes out.

As proud of my Lechnerds as I am and the fact that they will continue to face the same recruiting problems every year of their existence since there is minimal resident continuity/turn over in any all-fish dorm. In the end though, once the fish move in they ARE a captive audience (which helps A LOT) and all you have to do is plant the seed and make yourself available. They will leave their "comfy, secluded, coed, modular" rooms and talk to one another, and you hope a few of them are excited about trying Bonfire and talking about that. That really is all it takes. The real miracle to me is the OC Hogs. I have all the respect in the world for an OC crew as strong as the Hogs. Any crew worried about recruiting "tactics" need only look as far as giving some of them a ring.


On the issue of it coming back, all any of else can say is time will tell, but I definitely think the university leaders' and administrators' opinions toward Bonfire absolutely matter. I also am not too convinced any of them are proud of Student Bonfire enough to boast when they do speak.

Scott, my concern would not be how will crews stay together a year after the change, but rather how will crews be formed a 5 years after the change has taken place. Once the winds of time has scattered old members all over the map, how will those crews be formed to a large enough number to get enough people out there to build it?

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Really? Like Moses?

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first of all... moses fell apart last season...

and they did manage to pull some numbers this year despite all odds...

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Once the winds of time has scattered old members all over the map, how will those crews be formed to a large enough number to get enough people out there to build it?

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ever map out an OC crew?

do you realize there aren't any undergraduates left that were undergrads pre-99?

the question of how crews will be found and assembled in 5 years is simple...each year, the members of previous years will spread the word about Student Bonfire. Some years will have larger crews than others...some years the numbers will drop...that is just how it happens.

To think that somebody will build the hell one year, and then not check back again for 5 years and just hope that a crew magically appears is rediculous.

The crews that Bonfire has in 2012 will depend on the crews that come out in 2011...which depend on the crews that come out in 2010...which depend on the crews that come out in 2009...which depend on the crews that come out in 2008...which depend on the crews that came out this year...which were formed by the crews that were present in 2006...which all goes back to 1907...

So you don't think the influence on bonfire will erode whatsoever once the current dorm structure is gone?

This right here, ladies and gentlemen, is what's wrong. Instead of anticipating problems and combatting them head on to address them before they become an issue, some members like those who have posted here, think that this won't be a problem at all. This will be the fall of ASB, your apathy is the greatest downfall.

The system supports bonfire, bonfire doesn't support the system.

Terry, I don't believe it to be a case of apathy. While it is good to be on the lookout for changes that are coming and how we can adjust to them, the way you present them (whether intentionally or not) is a gloom & doom point of view, instead of "here's an opportunity for the Aggie Spirit and Aggie Ingenuity". Instead of focusing on the problems, create solutions to them. That isn't sticking your head in the sand. It's being proactive.

just because it is not discussed on texags doesn't mean that the crews arent very aware that they dont have a lot of time left in their current residency.

i really doubt that an issue like this is being discussed among current dorm leadership. it's not their problem right now, why would they look into the future when it will be in someone else's hands by then?

Terry, I wasn't talking about crews staying together. Traditionally, when a dorm is torn down, those lines end and are thrown in the Fire. The residents that scatter to the other dorms after that would most likely try to get crews going within them. They may come out with their old dorm names on their pots, but they are with another crew and that helps spread it around campus.

If it all went away tomorrow and SB was told: "Ok, start from scratch, no existing members, no anything. Now, go, recruit somebody." Then, no, I don't know right off the top of my head what the plan would be. I do know that the guys made some strides this year in learning when and where they can set up on campus and get word out that way. I suspect, though, that the plan of action would look very similar to the Unity Project starting position and it would be "build what you can with what you have and increase every year as participation grows" type of attitude.


Scott Coker '92

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i really doubt that an issue like this is being discussed among current dorm leadership.

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i have been directly involved in conversations in one dorm... and have talked to people in others...

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but I fail to see how say, hypothetically, Walton is going to have a strong crew go out in 2025 when the dorm was torn down in 2015.

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sorry i never gave an answer...
the idea isnt that Walton would still have a strong crew, walton would no longer exist, the goal is that waltons remaining members would all move together to a new dorm, either a newly built one or an old one that is no longer involved in bonfire and build upon whats left in a new crew... with walton deads training and starting new lines at this new dorm... and maybe putting a W on one of the new pots just to keep that history alive

[This message has been edited by BBYD09 (edited 12/13/2007 12:06p).]

You guys are failing to see the issue entirely. When Law and Puryear ceased to be, there were several other "bonfire friendly" dorms on campus. The issue at hand is what happens when there ceases to be any "bonfire friendly" dorms on campus. The influence of those who participated will taper off little by little.

BB, you're being awfully vague here. Your discussions with people about things about a future you're not even sure of does nothing to convince me that after campus renovations, ASB will still be.

[]1, so you're saying that any current bonfire dorm should be concerned about a hypothetical drop-off in interest in Bonfire (as a whole) in their dorm, as well as campus-wide, that you feel will happen at some undetermined time in the future? Who's the vague one?


Is it a possibility? Perhaps. But if the newer, more comfortable dorms you foresee overrunning the campus don't want to support a Bonfire... well, I guess there isn't much anyone can do about that. All anyone can hope is that some current students at that time feel strongly about keeping it going, are persuasive enough to convince others to at least try, and are determined and responsible enough to follow through with it.

I personally feel though that something will have inherently gone wrong in the organization itself somewhere along the line for this extreme apathy across campus to surplant itself in all the dorms. As I said before, modular style dorms are now becoming more active in the current fire... housing style isn't the deterrent or else the kids I know from Callaway Villas would have never come out. The major deterrent that I think would implicate this mass exodus from Bonfire would be the fault of irresponsible/incompetent leadership at the dorm level during that unknown number of years in the future OR a MAJOR incident by upper leadership to leave so many of the dorms alienated and violated that they would decide to never come back out. If one of these were to be the case, there would be a substantial amount of other concerns that needed to be addressed.

Oh, and I trust that the residents of all the fancy, smancy dorms of the future will have the same concerns as current residents that they live in squaller. *****ing to no end about how ****ty their dorm is. Technology changes, people stay the same.

Square, are you suggesting that all the current "Bonfire dorms" are going to be leveled at the same time? If so, then what I suggested in my previous post is what I think the plan would resemble (UP and build what you can). But, isn't that assertion just as absurd as the head-in-the-sand approach you say is being taken? We all know that the destruction of these dorms is inevitable and it is possible that more than one will go at a time, but all of them at once? Even if we assume they all go at the same time, why is it so hard to believe that recruiting could take place in the new dorms with the old residents? It seems like you are suggesting that when they destroy a dorm, they kick all the students out of A&M too.

Scott Coker '92

nm

[This message has been edited by aggierichie (edited 12/14/2007 1:05a).]

well all the dorms are not being torn down at one time and its not like they are just gonna say... suprise you all have to move out and tear it down.


as of right now, hart is scheduled to be torn down in 2012. The idea is that in 2010/11 we start building a presence in some dorm... we recruit from it, hang out over their, and invite them to cut with hart and join in hart activities(yes this can be done, we did it in leggit this year and they were pulling about 7-10 people a day)...

then when hart is torn down we make a mass exodus to that new dorm... there will already be a small bonfire presence and people that have been trained for new lines... the bonfire community builds itself. if we get all 50-60 people that are involved in the hart community into the same dorm, we will recruit in the same manner that we always have. We will get involved with hall council there and get buddy buddy with the RAs as best we can. We will plan events that get the new fish out and hanging out with us...

When freshman first arrive at college they dont know what to expect and many of them have very few friends at this new and intimidating place. They will be looking for new friends and as they are no longer involved in any kind of activity or group will be very interested when they see a group of 20-30 people doing activities in front of there dorm and down the hall from them everyday. We will invite anyone who cares to join us in whatever it is that we are doing (hopfully related to this new dorms first week activities)
...These fish know absolutely nothing about bonfire or the fact that we all lived in a different dorm, but they are now our friends and will want to hang out with us and eachother. Over the next couple weeks we will teach them about bonfire and simply do what we always have.


As far as they are concerned... this is the way it is and will build on it next year.

yes i understand that moving that many people into a different and sadly much more expensive dorm will not be easy, but thats what bonfire is all about... rising to the occasion as a group and beating the odds

You're such an idealistic and optimistic grasshopper. I hope nobody ever breaks your heart kid.

We could sit here and talk about this back and forth all day. And then it comes down to the bottom line and the only thing that matters. And that's what's really going to happen.

Will bonfire be here on campus as a presence or an entity when my children come here in 20-25 years? Hmm...

What is the timeline for Northside being torn down? How would you plan to keep Bonfire going once the Northside dorms are gone?

I don't think anyone will deny that nothing will change. It could very well be devastating to ASB. But give credit where it is due. Bonfire is nothing if not resiliant. It has overcome bigger obstacles. The Corps isn't going anywhere. OC isn't going anywhere. The old guys will be gone but there will be new dorms with new students who want to be part of this great tradition. That is what makes Bonfire and A&M, we sustain ourselves through passion. As long as ASB is going there will be people passionate enough to rise to the challenge. There will be people talking to fish in the new dorms and encouraging them to come out. Recruiting is always important, but recruitment is already an intergral part of Bonfire.

I am not saying planning for the day is unnecessary. What are your ideas?

Oh and Scott is old yada yada yada.

My crystal ball says

If ASB fulfills it's true potential then yes it will still be here and it will be off campus still.

If it fizzles then the interest among the community will also fizzle and there will be no bonfire in 20 years.

how so? Thats exactly how we currently do things, the hard part is getting people to move a few hundred feet in one direction or the other.

one more thing... if you ask anybody i know... im quite the pessimist

Where do the majority of OC Hogs get their start out their involvement with bonfire?

SqareOne07- I swear, everytime I read your posts, my blood pressure rises and I get pissed.......

Now that I'm calm, I will answer your question, which is a good one. I always lived off campus. I knew of Bonfire prior to attending A&M. I had attended '91 and '92. My sister lived in Clements in '92, and although the dorm did NOTHING Bonfire related back then, there was one guy that was red-ass (flyers all around the dorm, "Hey Mark, go to class". He took me out to the field one night when I was a senior in HS. I knew that night that I would be involved with Bonfire when I finally made it there the next year.

Sure enough, I lived in University Tower my freshman year. It took a few weeks into the fall to get hooked up with the OCA Hogs and I missed all but the last couple of cuts. Being across the street from the field, I could see the preparation of the field as stack was about to begin, and since I finally connected with the crew, I knew what was going on with the OCA group.

All that said, my crew chief year and Yellowpot year, our recruiting efforts included: a table at the MSC Open House, speaking at the OCA general meetings, placing / handing out flyers at bus stops and in apartment complex laundry rooms, visiting organizational meetings (YES, EVEN FRATERNITY MEETINGS), wearing grodes to class and telling people that we were with the OCA crew, having our cut classes at the Fish Pond, where people would see us as they passed by, etc, etc. I know some of this is not possible now, but we didn't have many of the technological advances back then. I don't even know of any of us who carried cell phones! We made wake-up calls from the "blue phone" across from Zachary!

Recruitment was very hard. First cut, we would have great numbers (by our standards) of 50-75 depending on the year. The rest of the year, we'd be lucky to have 20-25 in the morning and more than 10 after lunch. We couldn't beat on peoples' doors at 5:00 am or guilt people into coming out. They were there because they wanted to be. That's why we met at 8:00 am, long after the first crews were in the woods. We'd get tons of grief from the dorms and the Corps for getting to the woods at 9:00 or after. That's also why our motto was, "Last in, first out, when's lunch?" The experience we provided to our crew HAD to be a good one, or else we'd never see them again. I would make follow-up phone calls to folks who came out and thank them for coming and to make sure they knew what was coming up next. Bonfire created a reason for off-campus folks to congregate, a community to hang out and party with.

If Bonfire involvement was entirely erased from campus, I can envision an entire bonfire organization forming off campus. Picture this: College Station vs. Bryan, old ghetto apartments vs. newer luxury apartments, Southwest Parkway vs. Harvey Rd, etc. People will naturally gravitate toward smaller groups that look like themselves, geographically or socio-economically. This won't change if the dorms become a non-factor. Bonfire used to thrive off of the "competition" between groups - CT's/non-regs, Northside/Southside, air/non-air, Crocker/everyone else. Of course we were all Aggies, building one fire in unity. But the competitive nature of the various groups was an intigral part and will always be so.

The overriding theme of Bonfire has been and will continue to be: IT CAN BE DONE

We must always think that way.

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Where do the majority of OC Hogs get their start out their involvement with bonfire?

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Texas A&M

Yellow, you shouldn't let me get a rise out of you like that. It only adds fuel to the fire and makes you look kinda silly that TexAgs pisses some of you people off so much.

The only thing silly is your daily obsession with bad mouthing ASB on this forum. Seriously, over Thanksgiving a family member was asking me if I ever read the forum and, "what is wrong with that guy?" Congrats on your rep. I'm sure the effort will pay off in spades for you someday?

try living with him

You fellers may or may not know this, but your reputation far preceeds your own selves...much more so than mine does. Trust me. It's great that some anonymous guy posting on an internet web forum has entered into your family's discussion.

This is getting funny now.

Oh, and bth, just out of curiosity, what did you tell your probing internet savvy family member was wrong with me?

I don't know you from a hole in the wall, nor do you me... so it would just be speculation. If I really cared I doubt it would be hard to find out.

Not saying that ASB should be insulated from critism, or that you haven't offered good counterpoints at times... just that the obsessive nature points to a thinly veiled personal vendetta. You could just come out and air the dirty laundry, but that might undermine your portrayal of devil's advocate here.

No dirty laundry to be aired or personal vendetta to be had, sorry bud. It sure would be easier to deflect criticism and out-of-the-box thought if that were the case though, wouldn't it?