what would happen if it does return but is no longer student built?


i would like to think that student bonfire could keep going... but i dont see how.

[This message has been edited by BBYD09 (edited 10/29/2008 12:43p).]

I personally hope they dont bring it back to campus for that exact reason.

If its not going to keep students in positions of responsibility and as the workforce that does the labor, then there's no reason to have a 'pretend bonfire' on campus and have it compete with Student Bonfire. Ideally the school would recognize SB was in part started to preserve the nine decades of Bonfire history and knowledge of how to build it, observe that its a safe and professional undertaking , transplant that to include an on-campus stack, and maybe have a P.E. on hand to check things out at the end of the day. Time will tell just how idealistic that is.

There's more to it - liability concerns, expenses, precedents, and of course, politics. But most of that has already been said on the other pages. Here's hoping it works out.

I think that if it returns to campus, even if it is some sort of professionally built stack (which would suck), off campus bonfire will die.

It would be interesting to see what the reaction to bonfire would be from a new crowd of people who have little to no exposure to what bonfire once was.

To them, would it not just be the same thing? A massive fire being built on their campus ending in a pretty awesome get together? No doubt it wouldn't have the same meaning to those involved or to those even not involved, but I would venture to say there's a pretty great number of those on campus these days with little to no exposure of what bonfire once was and would embrace Bonfire 2.0.

i agree square... this would just be bonfire to them... and it would definitely have an effect on the student body... but i dont think it would be the same unifying effect as having it student built on campus

This is from the University's Official Statement, following the settlement (http://dmc-news.tamu.edu/templates/?a=6871&z=15):

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* The University would be guided by the aforementioned "Agreement of Voluntary Compliance."

* The University would look outside the University community for a consulting engineering firm that has no direct ties to the University to determine whether any proposed Bonfire activity involves "engineering."

* If the independent engineering consulting firm were to advise that a future proposed Bonfire activity did involve "engineering", construction of a Bonfire activity would go forward on University property only if the engineering plans and specifications and estimates were prepared by, and the engineering construction was executed under the direct supervision of, a licensed professional engineer that has no direct ties to the University.

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This doesn't sound to me like construction would have to be done by professionals but just overseen by one.

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To them, would it not just be the same thing? A massive fire being built on their campus ending in a pretty awesome get together? No doubt it wouldn't have the same meaning to those involved or to those even not involved, but I would venture to say there's a pretty great number of those on campus these days with little to no exposure of what bonfire once was and would embrace Bonfire 2.0.

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I've personally had experiences (recruiting mostly) that would agree with that. But I really just find that thought too sad and disturbing. We take our fish out to the memorial partway through the season, after they've had some time in the woods and before stack, so they hopefully gain some appreciation for everything that has lead up to what it is today.

People will be people, you remove something for eight full class generations and sure people aren't going to know what it is, but I gotta believe there's still the potential for a meaningful, if not positive, return. Some day. If there's an Ag, there's a way, right?

There aren't many, but there are some current students who have seen Bonfire on campus. Our kids ('10 and '12) grew up coming to Bonfire and our '10 kid was involved his first two years there in the student bonfire and has been to cut this year as well.

My answer...

Cut, loaded, and unloaded by students under professional supervision. Built by a professional company under heavy student supervision.

For what it's worth, most of my fish buddies and I were out at the Polo fields the night Bonfire fell and we all think this would be a very good solution.

there's a lot of talk going on, and I've been participant to it, but how 'bout we take a step back and let the dust settle from tuesday?

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/33553949.html

Having been to many (real) bonfires in my life, I can say that the current students have absolutely no idea what it actually means. If it came back in any form like the old one, I really dont think it would have the same effect. We would almost need thousands of people from older classes to come "show" the students what it is, what it means, what to do, and how it has nothing to do with the instant gratification, me me me, mentality of this decade. I think our students and culture have changed too much to embrace bonfire like it used to be embraced.

I hope Im wrong though.

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My answer...

Cut, loaded, and unloaded by students under professional supervision. Built by a professional company under heavy student supervision.

For what it's worth, most of my fish buddies and I were out at the Polo fields the night Bonfire fell and we all think this would be a very good solution.

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That is the exact opposite of what will happen. Cutting and falling trees is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. The University wants ABSOLUTELY NO PART of that. If the university officials ever become part of Bonfire again, cut (including load and unload) will be the FIRST thing to go. You can bank on it.





[This message has been edited by YellowPot_97 (edited 10/31/2008 3:01p).]

Out of curiosity, how many people posting have been out to student bonfire in the last handful of years? I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but A LOT of things have been changed (or flat out outlawed) in the woods / at stack, most of them outlined in the Bonfire Commission Report. While there still may be an inherent level of risk, wouldn't proper training and a decrease of tolerating 'shenanigans' help to diminish a large amount of that risk? Potentially to within a degree that an official can sign off on it?

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Having been to many (real) bonfires in my life, I can say that the current students have absolutely no idea what it actually means. If it came back in any form like the old one, I really dont think it would have the same effect. We would almost need thousands of people from older classes to come "show" the students what it is, what it means, what to do, and how it has nothing to do with the instant gratification, me me me, mentality of this decade. I think our students and culture have changed too much to embrace bonfire like it used to be embraced.

I hope Im wrong though.

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I'll be the first to admit that I have no first-hand knowledge of Old Army Bonfire, but I have a hard time putting much stock in any of what you just said. The whole point of starting Unity Project/Student Bonfire was for this very reason: so people would know what to do. And from all I've heard from old Ags and what I've experienced in the woods/at stack, Student Bonfire is legit. Not to mention the fact that the new Reds have put together a tight operation that the old Reds recognize and support.

In general, I agree that today's (my) generation is sadly limp and soft. But based on the number of people I saw working for 6+ hours to get Centerpole up last night, on Halloween, until about 3:00, there's hope for A&M yet.

[This message has been edited by agcoop10 (edited 11/1/2008 11:51p).]

There is very much hope! I see it every day on campus. I did not mean to undermine the current students with my post, just to point out that the things bonfire used to do for our campus would take MANY years before current campus could feel the same way.

it will never come back.

There is still a hell of a lot that A&M and Aggies do right, and the Spirit is still alive. I love going to school here and taking part in some unique traditions that the average college student doesn't get to experience. But even not having first-hand experience to draw on, I know a lot has changed, and Aggieland isn't the same place it used to be. I know I try to do my part all the time, but the fact of the matter is there are more "students" here now who don't.

But as I've heard, "Ol' Army is four years old".

Forget about bonfire on campus. The lawyers have killed that forever. Keep it off campus and have each worker sign a waiver. Volunteers only. Exercise good construction safety procedures. Get necessary permits and move on. This litigious society has hurt this nation.

i hope they bring it back tp campus....I remeber going to Bonfire '97 and '98....I was in my early teens but I still remember it...You could drink at Bonfire back then and it was really fun to go to...The off campus Bonfire is a joke and pretty much a harry's/The hall red ass hang out....bring it back on campus please....

well you cant drink at off campus bonfire for a reason... get over it

seriously? are you really this dumb or are you disgusting enough to troll a subject such as this??

yes... get over it. If drinking is what made bonfire fun for you then im sorry... but those that run student bonfire have made the decision to learn from the mistakes of the past and change the way they operate rather than repeat those mistakes. Alcohol impairs you physically and mentally and therefore has no place at cut, stack or burn.

And if you think you need to drink to have fun with bonfire, that means you equate alcohol with fun. No one should *need* to drink to have fun, and if you do, I feel sorry for you.

GET OVER IT! Student Bonfire, just the same as the "real" bonfire as you called it, has very little to do with burn. If you knew anything about bonfire you would know it was about aggies coming together to make something bigger than themselves, and im sorry if you cant understand that.

I don’t have to drink to have fun nor am I discrediting those who work hard for the off campus bonfire...I think it is very courageous and honorable for them to try and keep the tradition alive...But until Bonfire is back on campus, I will not attend the off campus one...I'm happy knowing that the last bonfire I went to was the real thing....and when I say drink at Bonfire, I mean exactly that....Drinking as it burns just like at a camp fire with your friends...I don’t mean drinking during construction...

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has very little to do with burn

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While true, there is nothing better than having the band, yell leaders, team, coaches, many more thousands of people, more news coverage, and more spirit from the non students in the crowd.

The way I see it, burn is alot like Victory Yell. There's really no better way to cap things off than with the Band, yell leaders, etc. but the really meaningful part of the experience has already taken place.

Aggies don't just build Bonfire, Bonfire builds Aggies.

Well said

JC, you must have not been going to Bonfire in 97-98. Are you sure you were in College Station when you sat around these fires? There was no "Drinking as it burns just like at a camp fire with your friends." Alcohol was disallowed on campus. Sure, there was drinking going on out there when it burned on campus, but it would have been "sip sip, you see a cop? sip sip, see one yet? sip sip, where did he go? Here, you hold this." Certainly far from openly sitting around a keg or cooler and drinking beers. Especially for someone in their early teens.

Waaay back, they used to sit around and drink beer as it burned like that, I am sure there are those that read this that were around then. Some of those experiences are posted on other threads here. But, sometime around 91ish, they started the "don't let alcohol shatter the tradition" thing and that was cut out, if not before.

And for the record, if you are going to post up something, be consistent. I don't care if you agree with SB or hate it, it's your opinion to have, but don't crawfish when you say something and someone calls you on it, that's what gets under my skin....

"The off campus Bonfire is a joke and pretty much a harry's/The hall red ass hang out"

"nor am I discrediting those who work hard for the off campus bonfire"

Those kinda contradict each other, huh?

One thing I'll give Square and the others that stir it up in here is that they are at least consistent in their views, or if it changes they say why.

Drive by insults hold little water with either side of this debate.

Scott Coker '92

hey cokeman... your smarter then us when it comes to bonfire past and present... whats your opinion on the original topic?

this is your sucking face BB...

Coke...I do respect your insight you do bring to the topics that your experience has given you.

ironic

I do have personal opinions on the original topic, but I feel that anything I say here will be seen as a view of SB on the matter. I don't want to confuse the issue, so I'll abstain from the discussion for now.

Suffice it to say that SB leadership has had limited discussions on the issue and possible situations that may arise, but no official SB opinion has been formed. SB is optimistic that it will work out in the best interest for the Aggie family.

Scott Coker '92

nice pc answer