Bonfire held hostage

6,061 Views | 67 Replies | Last: 15 yr ago by Strong Men Armed
10PennyNail
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You know what I remember about the nights bonfire burned? 10K drunk, obnoxious Aggies staggering across campus with the campus cops running a temporary jail busting the underage drinkers and the over served. I remember fights and accidents all around the fire. I remember unintelligible ranting from football players and coaches, uncoordinated yells with parts skipped because you couldn't even see the yell leaders. I remember almost hearing the band play and random whoops filtering through the crowd.

Is that what you suggest we bring back? The blood, sweat and tears spilled building stack, the lessons learned about cooperation, hard work, sacrifice and friendship were what made burn worthwhile and not just another reason to get trashed.

I don't know about all the other Aggies, but a bonfire without stack is just another fire to put out.
SquareOne07
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I'm sorry you have such poor memories of (the night of) Bonfire.
Strong Men Armed
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No apologies necessary, Fitch10. You are a person of strong convictions, and are willing to stand and be counted. Would that all of our fellow citizens model your behavior, as our nation would be the stronger for it.

Yes, my son is a SSGT in the USAF, on his third enlistment, and a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan. During the war with Iraq, he and a couple of thother Ags had their picture taken with an A&M flag in front of one of Sadam's large portraits, and this picture was one of many in a slide show shown at Kyle Field. He has returned stateside, and he and I will be there for the A&M- Arkansas game next week.

And yes, I'm proud of him (if you can't tell).

Semper Fidelis
SquareOne07
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TexasRebel
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Many of those that attended Bonfire were simply attending the unique yell practice before the game.

Those that still attend Bonfire, are the ones that went to share stories with the class that is watching their first one burn, congratulate their line on a good year, and meet the newest picks.
Fitch
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Fun story, my dad's roommate from when he was at A&M, his daughter made the cowboy's cheerleading team. I'm having a hard time choosing between standing room only at the A&M/Arkansas game and going to the state fair to visit the Cowboy Cheerleaders. I want a team picture with me doing the Steven Colbert smile and duel gig'ems, is it too much to ask to have that AND see the aggs BTHO Arkansas?
BBYD09
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i feel that the pride from bonfire will be lost if its not built by students,

anybody can build a bonfire, only aggies can build aggie bonfire
StringerBell
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quote:
Planes fall from the sky, sometimes resulting in hundreds of deaths, but we do not stop flying. If Harrington Hall collapsed, we would not stop teaching education classes.


this is a silly argument.
SquareOne07
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Really? Bonfire loyalists sure do use it. A lot.
StringerBell
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doesnt make it any less silly.

comparing the bonfire collapse to not teaching education classes because harrington falls down? really?
SquareOne07
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Couldnt agree with you more Stringer
TexasRebel
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The difference is between what you see as "necessary"
diehard03
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it's a silly argument because it's foolish to say you are actively trying to make Bonfire safer, and then accept a certain level of accidents because to remove them would be to remove traditional parts of Bonfire (ie, carrying logs) that you want to maintain.

The more i've thought about it...maybe it's just better if the "watchers" of Bonfire and the "builders" of Bonfire part ways. Let the campus have their Bonfire on-campus...and let Student Bonfire keep building theirs off. Both groups are happy. Those that value building get to build one...and those that value watching one on campus and being part of the larger campus community watching can watch it.
ag4ever2010
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No disrespect diehard, but that's a horrible idea. No matter what happens, the Aggie community can not be divided.
StringerBell
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that will not happen.

if there is an on campus bonfire, there will not be an off campus bonfire. the administration will do everything in their power to stop it.
diehard03
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quote:
No disrespect diehard, but that's a horrible idea. No matter what happens, the Aggie community can not be divided.


I think people get too caught up in what the "Aggie community" is. There's nothing divisive about those who want to see one on campus to go to that one, and those who want to build one can build one...just like there's nothing divisive about liking the Hall over Harry's. it's ok to be different...we just have to respect each other in the process.

Likewise, I think we get too caught up in what "Aggie Bonfire" is. In my opinion, it's whatever you want it to be. If it's on-campus, then great. If it's student built, then great. What starts to be devisive is when when start telling others that whatever they believe is not "Aggie Bonfire". (note: this is understood to be within reason. Let's not go down the "what if I think it's some toothpics on fire in an alley?" path).

I'll be honest. I'm in the "I gave my everything to build it, I couldn't care less who came to watch it burn" crowd. I think building it is so important, that if only the people would built it watched it burn, I would be a happy man. If anyone else wants to see it burn, then that's cool...but I don't need 70k at Bonfire to legitimize it by any means.
So, if the 70k want a pre-fab Bonfire on campus...I am not concerned with that.

The only way I can see that we can "have our cake and eat it too" is if either we "part ways" like above...or off-campus bonfire becomes stable enough (ie, 10, 20 years) and popular enough (say, 30k attendance) that everyone gets over how important it being on campus really is.

Note: These are my opinions and my opinions only. Please don't apply them to anyone else.
TexasRebel
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Student Bonfire will die without an audience...

go back and look up what the classes of 02 and 03 did to make that burn happen...
commando2004
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quote:
What starts to be divisive is when when start telling others that whatever they believe is not "Aggie Bonfire".


You're absolutely right, of course.

But I think that such an attitude would be inevitable if there were both off-campus and on-campus Bonfires. Why would there even be two unless one didn't recognize the other as legitimate?
TexasRebel
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you can get out of service if you are declared insane...

the only way to be declared insane is to declare yourself insane...

if you declare yourself insane to get out of service, you must be sane enough to know the dangers that you are trying to get out of, and therefore must not be insane...
guitarace010
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Bonfire is a tradition started by students, continued by students, and should never exclude the students.....at any level. Anything less is what would be shameful. 2% Aggies like the OP compromising the values of one of the longest standing traditions on campus, 100 years this November) is a disgrace and an insult to the twelve that died doing something that they loved.

I will not apologize or compromise, as neither of those are part of tradition.
commando2004
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quote:
comparing the bonfire collapse to not teaching education classes because harrington falls down? really?


Yeah, I don't even know where to begin to explain what's wrong with that analogy. You need to at least use something on the level of "we still have a football team even though lots of players get injured."
diehard03
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quote:
But I think that such an attitude would be inevitable if there were both off-campus and on-campus Bonfires. Why would there even be two unless one didn't recognize the other as legitimate?


It's inevitable because we are human, and nothing more. My point about "2 bonfires" was that they didn't have to recognize each other. People could choose which "Aggie Bonfire" experience they wanted.

But really, this is a question for the "students build it" crowd. If the university decides to once again capitalize on the image of Bonfire and sets up a construction-crew-built fire, what's the response? How important is it really that students build it? If it is as many people talk about, then the only recourse I see is to keep building it off-campus. Ultimately, it depends on how important everyone thinks "not building bonfire, but being built by bonfire" is.

But, to TexasRebels point, it cannot operate on the cost structure currently in place. With little to no volume of attendance, it would have to be fully funded in other means.
StringerBell
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diehard, good post. here are my thoughts.

there will never be two bonfires. if bonfire comes back to campus, the university will do everything in its power to shut the off campus bonfire down. i feel pretty confident in saying that.

if it comes back to campus everyone will react differently. i'm sure some of the old ags will be excited to see something familiar, and i'm sure some of the current ags will be excited for what amounts to a pep rally on campus.

if we bring back a storebought bonfire, in my opinion, A&M will have sold out big time. the supposedly waning spirit on campus wont be any different--it will be just the same.

just my two cents.
diehard03
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Stringer, the only thing I disagree with you on is:

quote:
there will never be two bonfires. if bonfire comes back to campus, the university will do everything in its power to shut the off campus bonfire down. i feel pretty confident in saying that.


We need to understand that "the university doing everything in it's power" = on campus bonfire. As soon as on campus bonfire happens, off campus is dead. Why? Because of what you just said - there will never be 2 bonfires. People already have it in their minds. No one will come to off-campus bonfire, and those who are working on it won't want to "violate the tradition", as it were. Essentially, it will die on it's own...the university won't have to do anything.
StringerBell
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quote:
No one will come to off-campus bonfire, and those who are working on it won't want to "violate the tradition", as it were


i see your point, and we're basically saying the same thing. but i think that the people who build off campus bonfire would still want to go about building bonfire--because to them, bonfire is about the build, not the burn.

my point is that even if they want to do that, they wont be given the opportunity because off campus bonfire will be forceably shut down.
SquareOne07
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I don't think it will be forcibly shut down, I think the funding will dry up.
guitarace010
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depends on how old ags and the current members that are graduating feel. If the consensus is that the off-campus build is more traditional and more legit because of it there will always be funded. As a friend and upper leader said "Bonfire will always have money, even if the JRPs have to pull $1000 out of their asses." (which by the way would be a great trick). It all depends on what those giving the funds think.
jrodwh00p
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quote:
2% Aggies


i hate that comment. you are either an aggie, or you are not. their is no room for that kind of bull****.

[This message has been edited by jrodwh00p (edited 10/19/2009 2:39a).]
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
BBYD09
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the more i think about it... the more i realize that if it were built by professionals... it would be... horrible
Bird93
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quote:
no one-- either in the administration or on the Bonfire Committee-- thinks that maybe the structure's design and building site ought to be vetted on a regular basis with professional engineers? Hindsight is always 20/20, but back then, everything was viewed through a haze of "good bull". No one in the Administration had the guts to cry "foul", and none of the students building stack wanted them to.


quote:
So maybe it wasn't infallibility, but if not, why did no one recognize the risk for what it was?


I lurk on this forum often, but rarely post. I have convinced myself the passing of time would somehow soften the guilt that I (and almost certainly many others like me) feel about the tragic loss of of family we all endured 10 years ago. Not because I think there's any direct correlation between my/our past actions/inactions and that horrible accident, but because with age and wisdom, I now know we should have taken a tougher stand on MANY issues.

When we were told to move stack from Duncan Field to the Polo Fields, we voiced concern about topography and drainage. Our fears were met with little concern from University officials, so we thought, "they must know more than us...full speed ahead!" When we saw hazing and other "good-bull" rights of passage going on at cut sight we thought, "they're just keeping morale high and having a little fun...full speed ahead!" When we saw horseplay outside perimeter of those we suspected had been drinking we said, "he's not on my stack so what will it hurt...full speed ahead!" When we saw yellow pots and butt pots teaching an underclassman how to drive a tractor just minutes before he was placed in charge of hoisting logs on the tag line we thought, "he's got to learn sometime...full speed ahead." Obviously, this list can go on and on.

My point (mainly geared at those involved in Student Bonfire):
When you feel the need to go full speed ahead, slow down and think. The lives of those around you and those who'll come behind you will absolutely hinge on your actions or inactions. I had graduated and moved on to the next phase of my life six years prior to the collapse, yet I still harbor both loss and guilt for those lives we lost.

As for the philosophical argument about "Bonfire - What it is, and what it should be:"
Bonfire is the burning desire to beat the hell outta tu, manifested in the blood, sweat, and tears of those who participate. We cannot judge which participation levels take precedence over others until we have a chance to see it from every level. Each person gets out of it what he/she puts into it. Consider this:
1. I breathed, ate, dreamed, lived, etc, bonfire -- I was obviously vested.
2. My parents never saw cut, much less stacked a log, but they owned the spirit bonfire represented as much as I.
3. I had a classmate who was confined to a wheelchair. Eventhough he was unable to participate on a physical level, he owned that spirit as much as anyone who dawned a pot.
4. A deacon in my church was an old Ag who never got to build a fire because Uncle Sam and WWII came calling. But he went to watch it burn, and his tears were as real and prideful as mine - probably more so.

Be careful of blanket statements about who is right or wrong on the issue of a student-run / student-built bonfire. I am convinced there is middle ground that would allow Bonfire's return to campus. Also remember that for many years, Aggie Bonfire was essentially the same thing as the very bonfires being mocked in this thread at BU and UNT...just a big trash pile.

Words can't express the respect I have for the students who took it upon themselves to carry on this great tradition; but please remember, no organization owns this tradition. Bonfire belongs to all Aggies; and as much as we like to argue this fact, the status quo precludes the majority of the Aggie Family from participation at any level. Stay objective in your approach, true to your convictions, and steadfast in your commitment to safety. Somewhere along the way, we'll figure it all out.
TimsParents
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S
Well said and one of the few objective posts on the subject in years!

Gig'Em & God Bless
Fitch
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I agree, well said.

As for those of us involved in SB, at least for those whom I can speak for, complacency in the belief that our actions are of no consequence is not a luxury that has been afforded to our generation. The ultimate Consequence [the collapse] of decisions made without regard to repercussions is an ever present notion that permeates all levels of leadership and participation.

I'm not picking an argument or trying to strike a debate. I just think that those of us who care about SB have to act as a constant PR agent, correcting or reassuring when necessary. I don't have to correct what I think is a very valid statement, but I do feel obligated to say to you that there's not much "going full speed ahead," its just not something thats tolerated by the overwhelming majority as a consequence of the tragedy and a desire to never see it repeated, and I am optimistic that mentality will endure.

It is a collective experience, it should be a collective decision - I hope for the day when there is a middle ground where all those with vested interests can agree and the experience's continuity can be ensured, but I'm admittedly not objective enough to say where that is, and I have to wonder who is...

[This message has been edited by Fitch 10 (edited 11/3/2009 2:17a).]
sparks5959
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Interesting conversation. I am a a reporter for The Dallas Morning News and I am looking for Aggies who witnessed bonfire collapse in 1999. I am writing a story commemorating the tragedy and would benefit from speaking to anyone who was injured or anyone who eyewitnessed the event. If you know anyone, I can be contacted at sparks@dallasnews.com or 214-977-8640.
Thanks

Scott K. Parks
Strong Men Armed
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BTW -- finally located a copy of the November issue of Texas Monthly, which has as the feature article a story on Bonfire. The article is really the story of Bonfire told by those who were involved, over the years, but with the focus on 1999. If anything, sentiment from those Ags on the future of a campus Bonfire seems to be split, with the majority sensing that the University is in no hurry to bring it back. Student Bonfire is mentioned. More than anything, the love of the Bonfire experience and the sorrow for the loss of the 12 comes across very strong from all those interviewed. All in all, a very well-constructed article. Get a copy if you don't have it yet.

Semper Fidelis
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