Are professionals involved at all? Or do students cut, load, and stack all by themselves with supervision?

Is there an estimate of how many students are participating (how many work on it at least once)?

What has the attendance been like for the burn?

"Professionals" is too broad a term to answer the first question. It is also a pretty useless word unless some kind of certification or licensing is involved. For instance, I'm classified as a "professional" 42 player, but that doesn't mean I'm better than anyone I play against at a bar that has never taken a dime.

Cut, Load, Transport, Unload, Stack, Burn and Cleanup are all done entirely by Aggies... some current students, some former students, some future students, and some in spirit.

There are always multiple VFDs that are encouraged to and do come with equipment to Burn.

Attendance at burn (if my memory isn't acting up) has been increasing and approaching the 10,000 mark, but could very possibly blow right by it this year with a site that is a little bit closer and easier to access.

Participation was claimed at around 1300 last year. My guess is that is how many sets of paperwork were filled out and filed...some of those may never have actually showed up.

Another 1300 filled out paperwork this year.

With the advertising SB has been doing (billboards, Texags banners, etc), plus it being closer to CS, plus the weather probably being good, plus no bus lines and a massive parking area, plus it being a big anniversary… I've heard a preliminary estimate of 20,000. We'll see if it holds up, hope so. The one thing going against it is that its on a Tuesday night instead of a Saturday night.

Get there early.

I hope they aren't planning to get every car down one (admittedly short) gravel road and through one gate.

quote:

---

Are professionals involved at all?

---

Stack is designed and supervised by a PE.

quote:

---

I hope they aren't planning to get every car down one (admittedly short) gravel road and through one gate.

---

I've got extra chairs and popcorn if you come out, Keegan.

quote:

---

I hope they aren't planning to get every car down one (admittedly short) gravel road and through one gate.

---

Bottlenecks be damned!

I'll be out there early, but it's a real black eye if the organization STILL can't figure out logistics and do basic arithmetic.

Let's say a car takes 10 seconds to get through the bottleneck. Let's generously say that each car has 4 people.

Well, that means you're only bringing 1440 people per hour through the gate. If you want 20k there, then it will be a massive fail.

TexAgs special:

Take 6 to Sadberry Road, then turn Left on Old Hearne Road, and take that to site.

It'll put you coming in the opposite direction of everyone else, who will likely be taking OSR -> Old Hearne.

so the line to get it the gate will take twice as long as it looks

I guess I just don't see the humor in the organization offering a poor experience to thousands of attendees that are trying to give it a chance.

If you want to be perceived as an organization that's capable of conducting a safe, student-built Bonfire, then the burn event needs to exhibit a high degree of professionalism.

Traffic jams, a poor event program, etc. are all solvable problems, and SB has had ample time to solve them.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 11/20/2009 12:29p).]

There very well may be a problem this year, but I do believe it'll be better than trying to get everyone down Pin Oak Road, to busses, etc.

No argument there.

Well it takes 3ish minutes to get down old hearne rd. going 25. I wonder if they could have two lanes organized going from 6 (OHR is wide enough), multiple gates open, then an exit path down the aforementioned opposite way in...

I don't think that would be a good idea.

In the event of an emergency, two lanes of traffic trying to enter the site would prevent any emergency vehicles from entering.

Yes, I realize that if something happened the traffic could be cleared, but it would be a cluster**** to do so.

Just keeping it as one train would be the easiest.

There won't be more than 5-7k there if there's only a single lane of traffic to the site.

quote:

---

In the event of an emergency, two lanes of traffic trying to enter the site would prevent any emergency vehicles from entering.

---

The exit path could be used for emergency vehicle ingress and egress.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 11/20/2009 2:59p).]

Old Hearne is is much worse shape than Pin Oak ever was, but it is shorter...

...and I'm willing to bet that nobody even considered trying to work with Union Pacific to lighten traffic on that line in the 6-9 and 12-3 hours...

if you're looking for 20,000 people, and people show up at an average of 4 per vehicle... that's 5,000 vehicles to get in, and out...and have a parking spot

Has anyone talked to the county about filling in the holes in the road with gravel or quickcrete?

Just like in 2006, with a new site, you can't forsee every problem... One big issue is that the experience in logistics seems to disappear every year.

Why aren't those things written down?

quote:

---

Just like in 2006, with a new site, you can't forsee every problem...

---

You can't foresee ingress rate arithmetic calculations that can be done in under a minute?

quote:

---

Why aren't those things written down?

---

Who says they aren't? I can't say that they are, but they could be...

Keegan, I'm not talking about the mathematics of it... I'm talking about things like the county blocking off a road at the wrong time, or rain making the parking lot an unavailable swamp, a train stopping across the entrance...

You can't predict them but you can plan for them, luck favors the prepared... Also, aren't emergency vehicles already staged at the site when the gates open? Then you just have to worry about egress.

I hope they are looking at putting up some barriers around that turn on Old Hearne Rd. with the steep dropoff on either side.

Could be a problem with people who don't know how to drive on bad roads.

quote:

---

I guess I just don't see the humor in the organization offering a poor experience to thousands of attendees that are trying to give it a chance.

If you want to be perceived as an organization that's capable of conducting a safe, student-built Bonfire, then the burn event needs to exhibit a high degree of professionalism.

Traffic jams, a poor event program, etc. are all solvable problems, and SB has had ample time to solve them.

---

Humn, first year at a new site and they should have all the answers to every problem. I would take more comfort in the fact that they well planned stack.
This isn't the on-campus fire where you could go use your gameday parking spot and walk over to the fire. Give them a break.

If traffic jams are so easily solveable then what reason does TAMU have that game day is such a cluster? And game day has been the same place for how many years?

And to end my rant, I IMO a traffic jam at burn does not = lack of professionalism or an unsafe fire.

quote:

---

a traffic jam at burn does not = lack of professionalism

---

Disagree. Providing a horrible 'burn experience' is a lack of professionalism.

While he main attraction to bonfire for it's participants is the actual building of it, the vast majority of the many tens of thousands who attended the on campus bonfire did not aid in the construction one iota. There was burn, and that was bonfire to them.

Until the logistical issues of providing a good burn experience with easy access on & off site are mediated, Student Bonfire will never gain mainstream acceptance.

As much as I have to write for school...

I'm dedicating the next four days to SB.

This rain doesn't help much, but if I could get another pair of hands or two to collect a trailer load or two of kindling, it would be very appreciated.

Past that, I'm offering to help smooth the road if the county will let us.

I hope whomever is in charge has contacted the Brazos and Robertson County Sheriff's department for traffic control. This could be a problem.
OSR has heavy traffic [ie trucks, etc)
You can see BF from OSR but there is no shoulder.

quote:

---

Humn, first year at a new site and they should have all the answers to every problem.

---

I'd prefer some evidence that they were aware of the problem and put some serious effort into solving it.

quote:

---

This isn't the on-campus fire where you could go use your gameday parking spot and walk over to the fire. Give them a break.

---

In 2003, 2004, or 2005? Sure. 2009? No. It's long past time to have a committee to address event logistics and guest experience.

quote:

---

If traffic jams are so easily solveable then what reason does TAMU have that game day is such a cluster? And game day has been the same place for how many years?

---

TAMU game day traffic is very well managed. No one will get stuck for half an hour or more and miss the game, and there isn't gridlock leaving campus, either. Vehicles are moved swiftly out of the area. Less than an hour after the game one can leave campus without any serious delays.

quote:

---

And to end my rant, I IMO a traffic jam at burn does not = lack of professionalism or an unsafe fire.

---

When your organization is dependent on revenue from the burn event to sustain itself, and customers at the event continue to have negative experiences due to poor planning by event organizers, then yes, that's unprofessional and reflects very poorly on the organization.

The thought "If they can't take some time to think about something as simple as getting an adequate number of cars through the gate, what else haven't they thought of?" isn't a stretch.

quote:

---

I hope whomever is in charge has contacted the Brazos and Robertson County Sheriff's department for traffic control. This could be a problem.

---

I know Robertson County officials are in the loop.

quote:

---

Old Hearne is is much worse shape than Pin Oak ever was, but it is shorter...

---

I disagree

quote:

---

...and I'm willing to bet that nobody even considered trying to work with Union Pacific to lighten traffic on that line in the 6-9 and 12-3 hours...

---

You lose, pay up. Union Pacific says they don't have control over that schedule and the Hearne switchyard is who to contact. No luck there, yet, to my knowledge, but they ARE working it.

quote:

---

Has anyone talked to the county about filling in the holes in the road with gravel or quickcrete?

---

The county put down new base and graded the road last week.

quote:

---

The thought "If they can't take some time to think about something as simple as getting an adequate number of cars through the gate, what else haven't they thought of?" isn't a stretch.

---

Did you ask anyone this when you were out last week or did you just assume this and decide to post it?

I am not trying to sound defensive, even though it may come across that way, but what would you have these guys do here? Contrary to popular belief, real suggestions to SB are always welcome and they are heard and discussed. Just posting on a public forum with assumptions and before the fact complaints gets nowhere though.

It may not be perfect, but the Reds HAVE worked on the logistics of this event and still are. Contingencies on this rain are there too. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than years before? I think so.

So, again, what would you suggest for getting traffic to site any better than a controlled traffic plan?


Scott Coker '92

Thanks Cokeman.

I was hoping you would chime in to shut the nay-sayers. No doubt in my mind that the Reds are addressing the situation as always. To bad there's still so many nay-sayers looking for any reason they can find to claim this thing isn't legitimate.

Then again, I'm sure if the Reds would only take the time to ask all of your opinions all the problems would be solved in no time flat!!

Keegan for event coordinator!

[This message has been edited by Pro-Bonfire (edited 11/21/2009 12:34p).]

quote:

---

To bad there's still so many nay-sayers looking for any reason they can find to claim this thing isn't legitimate.

---

The person you're referring to is one of your biggest supporters.

quote:

---

You lose, pay up.

---

there's a bet that I don't mind losing.

the road is a lot better...I noticed it had been worked some before the last rain.

quote:

---

The person you're referring to is one of your biggest supporters.

---

I wasn't referring to anybody in particular in this case and I care not so much if they support me, they should support the fire and the guys incharge of it.

That was more of a general statement of the continous lack of confidence in those incharge and IMO that does not equal support.

I do however challenge anybody that thinks they can do a somuch better to go out there and offer a hand instead of sitting behind a keyboard offering up their 2cents.

I've been lending a hand since the idea of 2002 started rolling.

I'd just like to see a bigger, more polished burn night event at this point, led by a committee completely separate from the Reds, who are more than occupied with everything else involved in construction.

I've advocated something like that since 2003!

I think of Chilifest and how it started in a Wal Mart parking lot less than 20 years ago and where it was in terms of becoming a professional event 7+ years after it started, and SB is more than a little off the pace.


Want to solve the ingress and egress problem? Have big name live bands out there from 3pm (or earlier) on, and promote the heck out of the concert aspect. Have other forms of entertainment for kids and families - bordering on a carnival type atmosphere. Bring in vendors to peddle goods and eats. Have video screens with messages, football highlights, etc. set up for the crowd. Just a few ideas that a separate committee could tackle.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 11/23/2009 12:34p).]