In an interview for this month’s issue of Texas Monthly, Governor Rick Perry said that he though Bonfire would return to Texas A&M, and soon (maybe 2011 or 2010).
This has caused quite the firestorm. He is the governor, former student, former yell leader, future president (?) of the university after all.
Murano said while president that it was the responsibility of the Board of Regents.
Many have said that it would take a vast majority of the students taking the initiative to bring Bonfire back…..
I would bet that many students didn’t know they had a choice. Many have probably been told there is no way it could happen again.
The fact is that the Bonfire of old couldn’t happen again, certainly not the way it was. The university just couldn’t deal with a second tragedy, and the insurance (if it could be secured) would be astronomical).
The old Bonfire is gone. Forever. End of discussion.
BUT – what of a new Bonfire ? Given the choice of NO BONFIRE, or NEW BONFIRE, I think most everyone would vote for NEW BONFIRE.
Attention Aggies, THIS IS YOUR NEW BONFIRE.
1) Students Cut only
2) Camp out, have your activities out at the field, where your pots, do what you do, except.
3) Engineers, Contractors, CRANES build stack. Not students. Sorry, it just isn’t an option anymore.
4) Stack is fenced off for safety
5) Bonfire fee, everone pays, 100 a semester
6) Bonfire Endowed Scholarship. 12 are given. Parents of those fallen to be on the board for the scholarship.
7) First 12 minutes after Bonfire is lit, there shall be absolute silence – to remember the fallen…. 12 cannon shots, will end the 12 minutes of silence.
Here are the facts. The vast majority of ags want Bonfire. The vast majority of Aggies didn’t help cut it, stack it, load it or have anything to do with it until the night before the texas game. For a “student run” activity, very few students actually participated or gave a rip about it other than the day before the game.
While I appreciated the effort of those that cut the logs and built the stack, I don’t really care WHO did the work, just as long as there was a huge fire festivus the day before the texas game, and I would bet that most Aggies would feel the same. There cannot be students on stack ever again. The alternative is no Bonfire. Choose wisely.
It is the best tradition we had. It needs to come back. It just can’t be the same as it was.

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The university just couldn’t deal with a second tragedy, and the insurance (if it could be secured) would be astronomical).

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True.

We've proven we don't need the University. If you don't give a rip who builds it, why give a rip where it is?

BTW Cut is more dangerous than Stack.

Bonfire is not dead, its 15min north on 6.

You obviously have no concept of what Aggie Bonfire is, Student run, Student built. There are still students on stack every year. It's not about having a fire or it being on campus, its about Aggie unity.

So many people who have never experienced bonfire have their own "plans" for bonfire, they talk about tradition but want to change it and add things. Your "New Bonfire" isn't Bonfire, this is bonfire:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxEWhDDTcEo

Bonfire fell my sophmore year. I know what Bonfire was.

Instead of being a rogue entity, if it were back on campus, and university endorsed it could be even bigger than it was.

over 100 thousand people would come out for on campus bonfire before it fell.

last year, off campus bonfire had what 10 thousand ? maybe 15 ?

I know there were more injuries at cut. but those injuries are by in large small and doesn't pose the same risk level as stack.

just curious, to what extent did you participate in Bonfire while you were here?

having it back on campus could increase attendance and participation, but at the same time the way you talk about bringing it back would do away with so much student involvement that you have to ask yourself is it worth it? is having 100,000 ppl attend worth having some professionals build stack instead of students? is it worth taking that great part of bonfire away from students just so its back on campus and more former students can attend? In the end is Aggie Bonfire something for former students and attendance numbers or is it something for the current students to join together and accomplish?

[This message has been edited by Tx91z28 (edited 2/9/2010 2:50p).]

Don't roll in here with an ultimatum dispensing attitude.

And before an old, old, old argument is rehashed let me just say: no one will ever persuade Bonfire participants that the night of Burn is more important than the months that precede it. There are 'official' bonfires annually on university campuses everywhere, but Aggie Bonfire is the one that stands out because it's not a pile of burning palates that were bought (like most other bonfires) but university STUDENTS voluntarily (and excitedly) sacrificing their weekends & sleep to sweat, bleed, and laugh with their fellow Ags.

It doesn't matter that most people who go to A&M don't build Bonfire, hell, if half the people who go to A&M felled only one tree apiece, that'd be twice the number of logs used in the largest Bonfire ever. What does matter is that the spirit those redass Ags build in the woods and at stack with their fish buddies and friends carries back onto the campus and enriches the campus environment & the people who trek across it.

A metric ****ton of extremely dedicated people have put a lot of time into making Student Bonfire as close to Aggie Bonfire as is possible. Organizational changes are made annually to grow SB; or midseason to make it safer and reduce personal risk while preserving what makes Bonfire valuable: student involvement, student leadership, tradition, and Aggie Spirit.

Before I go, how do I "where" my pot?



[This message has been edited by Fitch 10 (edited 2/10/2010 12:35a).]

Unless it is student built and has a big degree of student participation it will be nothing more than a pep rally with a fire. Give me Off Campus Bonfire each and every time over that.

This dead elephant will NEVER condone a purchased bonfire just so we can have a campus party.

The Aggie Network is what ? 250 - 300 thousand people strong ?

Why not do something that everyone can be proud of - instead of just the few that are involved with or attend student bonfire ?

The student bonfire is supported by 10 - 15,000 btw - can somebody tell me how many participate and attended last year so I can use the correct number in the future ?

Is 'student built' so important to you that the wants of a few who support student bonfire are more important than something the entire Aggie community can get behind ?

And I am just proposing keeping students off of stack. Still cut the logs, still campout at the site and watch over it etc. So students would sill be crucial to the cause. Just no students on stack for safety purposes.

Sorry, 'wear' your pot. Sometimes grammar fails when I get to typing.

you never answered my question, so i'll ask again, to what extent were you involved in Bonfire while you were a student? Not being aggressive i'm just curious.

also, i'm curious what is you deffiniton of "Aggie Bonfire"?

The other guys posting are right, this has been beat to death, did you even read the "what can we do to bring bonfire back" thread before you started this thread?

sorry for missing your specific question, so many things to talk about.

I lived in Walton Fall of 98, but did not participate in Bonfire. I went out when centerpole was raised to check it out, and then like 100 thousand other Aggies I watched it burn for the last time that fall. Stayed out there all night with friends. It was fantastic.

Fall of 99, I lived off campus, When I got to my 800am accounting 230 class the fall is all anyone talked about before class was dismissed.

I bet if you asked "what is your definition of Aggie Bonfire ?" to most aggies, they would mention the night it burns, and an ever livin desire to beat tu. To MOST aggies it is about the night it burns. To a select few it is about cut and stack and everything before it burns.

So BlueTeam02, you didn't participate in Bonfire, correct?

So you just want to go see a big campfire at night? Cool. Go burn some pallets.

Sound like you sure know what the hell you're talking about.

I participated like 98 percent of Aggies did.

We came and watched and had fun the night before the t.u. game.

I have not been antagonistic thus far, but if you want to go that way, I will.

if Bonfire was just about having a fire to 98% of Ags it would already be back on campus.

If all you want is a fire it'll be ready for you late Nov. 2010,, unless a 15min drive and $5 means more to you than seeing Burn, although that would be strange since you took the time to start this thread...

my point is exactly that. 98 percent of people would be for Aggie Bonfire if they thought it was a possibility.

Most likely dismiss the thought because they assume it must be like it once was. If you remove the students on stack the safety concerns can be dismissed. The other obstacle is that Bonfire has been gone so long that there is less and less attachment to it from current students with each passing year. If the university can get behind it and students can get behind it, nothing can stop it. The university can get behind something safe and students can get behind a spirit and then everyone can enjoy it, on campus.

I would argue that it is safe, in fact I'm prepared to say that the way Student Bonfire constructs stack is safer than how a hired construction company would be able to do it (or at least as safe).

The reason for this is that the physical Stack is no longer the multi-tiered tower of logs stacked on other logs using cranes and truck wenches to hoist felled trees dozens of feet in the air. Every tree is cantilevered into an angled, near vertical, resting position and then hand fitted to rest against it's neighbor logs in as secure a fashion as is possible before another tree is even positioned to be raised & slammed. They all rest on the ground. This is a much slower pace of construction and allows for every tree to be individually placed and custom fit before being wired in. Needless to say, rather than using two spliced centerpoles that can stand 100+ feet in the air, SB uses a single unspliced pole (60 ft in length) and then 15 feet of that is buried in the ground, so the whole stack is never more than 45ft tall, and a lot of that is cut off when the outhouse is raised. The night of centerpole raise four poles are set about the centerpole and bolted to it, creating a 5 pole skeleton that logs are wired to, tallest in the center & working out to the shortest ring. And then there are only 4 people in stack swings at any time - not the dozens of people walking around like when the stack reached heights equivalent to the bell tower.

The night of burn, stack doesn't so much collapse but twist (predictably) into a kind of 'awesome blossom' shaped pile. The critical thing to note is that it doesn't over step its original footprint by more than a few feet (and after several hours). I've always been told that the last Bonfires on campus were doing great if they made it half an hour before completely wrecking themselves and collapsing in a massive pile. I know that my first Bonfire (2006) stood past midnight...and we beat the hell outta tu....

So here's my thing, I think keeping SB around and running is a far better alternative than creating another Bonfire-esque enterprise thats only reason for being is to get more people to the final event. What SB has been able to retain and continue is far to valuable to the Aggies that commit to it to sacrifice for increased visibility. And I've had old ags, parents of the year even, tell me the same thing.

A final thought is this: in 2007 around 5000 people were at burn (more wanted in but the site couldn't contain them), in 2009 there were an estimated 15-30k people in attendance (that number could be low or high, I've never heard a final count of ticket sales). I say that's entirely because of increased visibility and acceptance in the Aggie Network - something I see dramatically increasing in coming seasons.

So please come out and see what the latest generation of Aggie have been up to. I think you'll find the same energetic atmosphere at Burn as before, even with the reverent somberness the reading of 'The Last Corps Trip' brings because of the collapse. If it were a bad or misguided undertaking it would have died off years ago when the last classes of students who saw & built Aggie Bonfire graduated, but instead its grown every year.

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Incidentally, I've heard the term New Bonfire used before. A couple of guys in the woods were trying to sell us on the idea that, as new army kids, we should build an upside down stack in the spring or an inverted stack shaped hole filled with diesel. They won a couple of converts.

[This message has been edited by Fitch 10 (edited 2/10/2010 9:05p).]

Does anybody else think that if the administration brought back a neutered bonfire, that the alumni (as a whole) would cry and moan about how it's new army and would cause more trouble than leaving it off campus?

Also, I will never get used to the word Biotch being censored.

[This message has been edited by 10PennyNail (edited 2/11/2010 12:48p).]

I am proud of SB but have to say it lacks what is needed to be great. You cannot have a Bonfire and call it great if any aggies cannot participate. By that I mean the Corps. Whether you like it or not it will not be the same when the Corps is told it cannot participate like it would like to.

I see CT's out there all the time. BQ's came out pretty strong this last year to protect their claim to constructing the outhouse, at least thats what some fish on a rope told me at stack. Do you see the corps being disallowed from participation?

The Corps does not/cannot recognize Student Bonfire as a University activity, as it is not. For this reason, it is not an acceptable excuse to miss otherwise planned Corps activities, whether that be random soccer game march-ins on a Sunday, or CQ/Lights Out policies during the week. That's what lilagg was referring to. I wouldn't go so far as to say that is something that will prevent Student Bonfire from continuing to grow, but it certainly doesn't help.

I see. Thanks for the background.

Without adding to the speculation, are there any expectations amongst the corps that the next commandant will be more accepting of SB activities, or does that not really register as a concern?

Too early to tell.

that says something right there, that the supposed Keepers of the Spirit - the corps - can't participate in SB.

another reason it needs to be university sponsored and on campus.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate those who care enough about Bonfire to do SB. I think their heart is in the right place, but wonder about the possibilities of an on campus Bonfire, where everyone could participate and everyone could watch.

Fitch - I appreciate your logical and thoughtful response earlier.

Due to most Corps Outfit Leadership going into the military, it is going to be a tough sell having outfit activities to include SB. This only because if someone gets hurt or any incident occurs (fights ect) it may jeapordize their leadership roles. The current officers in charge of the Corps have a tight leash on the cadets and hold their pilot slots, tank commander positions, ect as leverage. Until this is a widely recognized activity I do not seeing this changing.

listen . . . this "pass the buck" style of leadership that the Corps is now producing has got to stop. No trigon bull holds your future job in their hands. Its just an excuse that the leadership uses to not take responsibility. A good leader would take his guys out there and be out there to ensure safety. But yes, the easy thing to do is to not build bonfire. If it was easy, anyone would build it.

I hate to say it but, "back in ol' Army", Gen VA went out to Bonfire, watched our outfit go through a cut class, asked the fish if anyone was forced to be out there (which they were not) and let us go on our way. All we had to do is comply with simple rules like not showing the Corps or outfit logo (nothing that a small piece of tape on our pots couldn't do)

This is also a little known story. The first year of SB, the Corps threatened to give serious consequences to any fish who missed CQ to go to Bonfire. Well, it didn't take long for this to reach the Capitol. It also didn't take long for the Texas Land Commissioner (former Ag) to phone the cadet Corps Commander to "thank him for letting the freshmen experience bonfire". I'm told there may have been some other phone calls placed. It was a gentle nudge but enough to allow the fish to go if they desired.

Well, that was when cadets took responsibility for being keepers of the spirit and didn't pass it off as "the bulls won't let us" I know some of yall still do, but sadly, I see alot of excuses from the cadets now.

A good read for any of you young cadets..."No excuse leadership." We're a nation at war, if you want to be a leader, act like it.

end rant.

At the risk of letting reality intrude here:

We'll say that 100,000 people will show up for a hypothetical on-campus bonfire. OK.

Of that number, what % of people will really care one way or another whether it's "authentic" (that is student-built, etc.) or put up by contractors? Are there as many as 1000 people who would really care? Let's be generous and say that 5000 people would really care, and that's being very generous.

So that means that 95% of the hypothetical crowd could care less how the thing came to be, but were there anyway.

So if that 95% stays home that night there would still be 95,000 people attending, restaurants packed to the rafters, hotels renting rooms as fast as they could, etc.

That sounds pretty good, especially in an area that has seen such a dip in sales tax receipts in recent years.

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Of that number, what % of people will really care one way or another whether it's "authentic" (that is student-built, etc.) or put up by contractors? Are there as many as 1000 people who would really care? Let's be generous and say that 5000 people would really care, and that's being very generous.

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There'd be at least 1200 from this last fall. More if we start going back a couple of years. And my guess is that the number of people who felt compelled to call/email Ray Bowen asking when Bonfire would return (post collapse) would be on the low end of the number of people who would call/email Bowen Loftin about the hired-out perversion of their tradition.

If a contracted bonfire were to happen on campus, I think the attendance wouldn't be an issue so much as making sure that the students who disagree with it didn't tear it down one night. But the Aggie Family seems to be coming around to SB, and I'm still hopeful it and A&M can reconcile....one day....eventually....

In my opinion Bonfire is as much for the former students, parents and rest of the Aggie Network as it is for the students.

I think calling any Bonfire but a "student" built Bonfire a "perversion" is taking it a bit too far.

I appreciate those involved with student bonfire - they have taken initiative to keep bonfire going in some way and their heart is in the right place. However, claiming that a "constructed" bonfire would be torn down reflects poorly on the student Bonfire group. Like I said, Bonfire belongs to all of us, not just current students, and not just those currently participating in the off campus student bonfire.

Fair enough. For the record, I wasn't attempting to make a threat about an on campus bonfire being torn down by the off campus group, but hyperbolistically trying to convey how passionately participants have defended their ideals.

All things the same, I remain convinced that it's essential to keep students involved in all parts of Bonfire construction. To me (and others), it loses any value without student involvement, Aggie involvement, and becomes a unique midnight yell at best. I somewhat doubt it would have existed for 90+ years if it were only a unique end-of-the-season pep rally.

Agree to disagree?

Remember that I am not proposing removing students completely, just from being on Stack. I firmly believe that students should still cut the logs and be present at the construction site all during construction. Seems that cut took place for most of the fall and the construction was only a few weeks. I am no expert in this regard, but just from the time spent perspective Cut seems to be the largest piece and students could still be involved in that.

The only reason I would suggest students be removed from the stack itself is obviously for safety.

So I would still support as much student involvement as their can be in every aspect except being on stack. Train students to run the cranes perhaps ? I am just spitballing and willing to explore anything that brings about a Bonfire that can be embraced by the entire Aggie community with students in a primary if not leadership role in the safest way possible.

I just wanted to clear that up. Don't know if that is agreeing to disagree or not.

hehehe... New Bonfire. It would have been glorious!

FTR, I am officially missing Fall now.

Consider it cleared up. We want the same ultimate goal: Bonfire on campus; but differ in our opinion on the way to achieve that end (i.e. what sacrifices/modifications are of consequence).

That resolved, I still ask that you look into the way we build it now (vs. how it was built while on campus). I think the safety standards, project organization, and level of redundancies make it a much safer undertaking now than before and negates a significant portion of the inherent risk associated with the construction. Call me stubborn.

And sno, we still have to go thru the other 4 Texas seasons - spring, monsoon, pleasant summer week, & hotasballs - before its fall again.

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Seems that cut took place for most of the fall and the construction was only a few weeks.

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Cut takes place on weekends for most of the fall and Stack takes place nearly every night for two weeks.

Whatever happens there will need to be some compromise to get it back "on campus"
I think that is the big fight, work hard to get whatever, even a trash pile back on campus then fight to build it bigger and bigger each year.

I have a couple ideas that would include some roof trusses in a triangle position 12'on one side and 30' on the other. A center pole of a large square shaped SPF or YP beam about 40'
Then just start adding junk and add an outhouse the last day.

It would be different, but it would be safe and I be this would be allowed on campus...

Then start turning it back to what it was.

personally, one of the major advantages of having a constructed bonfire on campus with no danger to student at stack would be that you could make it huge. Think about it being a couple hundred feet wide and a couple hundred feet tall......

You could see the thing from SPACE !