I am glad I am OC, look at the trash they are giving out to residents, probably killed more trees than we do.

This is almost exactly what they sent out last year. I'd say this letter is about 15% legitmate concern and 85% scare tactic. I think the hazing/alcohol question shows that ResLife clearly has no idea whats going on with the off-campus bonfire. Theres a lot more hazing/alcohol going on in the dorms under thier noses that is completely unrelated to bonfire.

They should send out a notice of concern about fraternity rush and hazing/alcohol.

Pretty big words from a guy that doesn't have an Aggie ring.

i believe that Ron Sasse is a good man. I am thinking that someone like Craig Rotter wrote this and put a ron sasse stamp on it. remember that ron's job is huge and he does the best he can. I speak very candidly with him and consider him one of the greatest admins at this university. I have a great respect for the many ways that he has helped this campus, but its hard to do every aspect of his job. So many people want to come out to cut and such that can't for fear of losing their jobs. I know i am kinda speaking out of my ass here but just believe that he is a listener and does cooperate if he is approached in a respectful manner.

Thanks and Gig'em.

Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2005 WHOOP!
Fightin' Texas Aggie M.J. Neeley Hall WHOOP!

[This message has been edited by Knockout05 (edited 10/22/2003 12:46a).]

I think I saw him at cut.

Sasse is a good guy?
My how things have changed. Three years ago he was holding "fireside Chats" with tiki torches on northside to speak about how horrible Bonfire was for A&M. If I'm not mistaken he was the first administrator to openly threaten the student body against off campus Bonfire participation.(& not just KTFB leaders as had been the norm till that point)

[This message has been edited by AggieStudent (edited 10/22/2003 12:59a).]

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If the group has no affiliation with Texas A&M University, how can the event(s) be an Aggie tradition or build Aggie Spirit?

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I've got news for you, Sir. An Aggie tradition built by Aggies, for Aggies is as much affiliated with A&M as Reville and Yell Practice, whether your legal counsel denies it or not. Since when were traditions started by the administration or with their prior approval and blessing? If I am correct, Bonfire was "renegade" from the start, and only later developed into an officially sanctioned/recognized tradition. Hell, look at TexAgs- this is not the propaganda outlet for the A&M administration, but it sure as hell does keep Aggies miles and generations apart closer together. Your stamp of approval doesn't make it a tradition. Aggies, which you are not, makes it a tradtion.

wonderfully said, Mr.

Like i said, ron sasse is a good person. But as you said he is NOT an aggie, therefore he doesn't understand the deep drives us real aggies feel for things like bonfire, muster, silver taps, howdy, etc. All we can do is tell him what the students want and reiterate that he can't stop us from doing things off campus that we want to do. This is our life, not his, and these decisions and opinions are ours. Ron knows me, and i've been honest with him concerning my opinions many times. He has not always agreed i'm sure, but he knows i'm a very determined girl and i will run my life how i see fit, just as all of you do. he can send out all the letters he wants, thats basically all he can do, blow smoke up our a$$es. He knows this, and i'm sure it makes his life a living hell but to quote a great song, "You don't always get whatcha want!"

Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2005 WHOOP!
Fightin' Texas Aggie M.J. Neeley Hall WHOOP!

First of all, I would like to congratulate UP/Student Bonfire.

After years of turning their head to the off-campus Bonfire movement and pretend that it does not exist (while threatening action against students who would participate in such "non-existant" events), you have finally scared the administration. Not scared because of the safety of what you're doing, but scared because they're losing their stranglehold on the monopoly they've attempted to possess in the A&M On-Campus "marketplace of ideas."

I don't know whether to be proud or totally pissed that this administration has decided to grapple off-campus Bonfire when, in reality, they made no real efforts to adequately control the one they SHOULD have controlled on campus years ago. Let's take a look at the tenets of "Mr. Sasse's" letter...

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Do the leaders and participants realize that the activity is not a University approved activity?

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Can we please see the letters sent out to all students about alcohol consumption, speeding through town, and Playstation 2 tournaments since none of them are University approved activities? Can the administration really think that Joe Aggie is so dumb to realize that this is not a University sanctioned activity? If Joe Aggie can't figure that out, I'd say our admission standards are WAY too low.

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Specifically how will the group insure your safety?

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If they are referring to insurance (insure), perhaps every person should take a trip back to 1999 where the project was underinsured and Joe Aggie was never advised on how he was insured by anyone in the administration. Of course, UP could pull a page from our own administration's past and just have everyone sign a waiver to release liability (a form that University lawyers are using in their current proceedings).

Now, if they're talking about "ensuring" safety, they a) need a better proofreader to use the more appropriate word and b) should probably take care of events they actually have autonomy over rather than ones that they choose to ignore. If I lived on campus, I'd probably be a tad offended that my tuition money that is earmarked for Residence Life was being applied to off-campus events that they admittedly don't wish to be associated with.

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Does the group have liability and medical insurance to protect the event/activity participants?

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Read above. While this is a legitimate concern (and one that I share), it's akin to hearing Mike Tyson speak about the ills of boxing. Despite the hypocrisy, this is a legitimate question.

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Does your insurance or your parents/guardians insurance provide coverage for you while you are participating?

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Again, I see the concern here. While UP has made a LOT of changes for the sake of safety, it's inevitable that a minor accident will happen. Make sure you're taken care of by someone's insurance.

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If the group has no affiliation with Texas A&M University, how can the event(s) be an Aggie Tradition or build Aggie Spirit?

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That's funny! I haven't seen such propaganda since the old World War II films.

The group has no affiliation with Texas A&M University because Texas A&M University doesn't want another lawsuit over their negligence. I shouldn't even waste time replying to this question - it's the most laughable piece of leftist crap I've seen in a very long time, and the person who really wrote this (I suspect not Sasse or Rotter) should wipe their mouth to rid themselves of verbal diarrhea.

Seriously, that's the most arrogant and twisted 22 words I've heard from the administration since "I did not receive an advance copy of the Commission Report. Feel free to contact me. We will take care of you."

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Is hazing, alcohol abuse or engaging in dangerous activities with other participants occurring even though those behaviors are not directly associated with the main activity or event itself?

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A few repsonses to that babble...

1) UP should contact their lawyer and ask A&M to prove that there is hazing and alcohol abuse being conducted at the UP site, or cease and desist making such comments. Pretty close to slander/libel there. Then ask them why it's happening in their dorms right now but they choose to ignore those (outside of trying to pass a stupid "no-pushing" rule) but fight the same battle against a group with "No affiliation to Texas A&M."

2) The last part of the question was "even though those behaviors are not directly associated with the main activity or event itself." So, is this a shot at UP members for what they do outside of UP, or is it a shot at people doing push-ups on site? Whichever it is, it's pretty lame. UPs lawyers should be contacted.

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Does your participation cause you to behave in a manner not becoming of a Texas Aggie (using inappropriate language/statements, not following University rules), and would you want your participation in such behaviors publicized in a news media?

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1) Each person has to decide if participating in off-campus Bonfire is "Good Bull" or not. Some say yes, some say no.

2) Who is anyone in that department (especially the signer of the letter who is not an Aggie) to determine what is "becoming of a Texas Aggie" or not? Is it becoming of a Texas Aggie to threaten a sophomore RAs job because he supported KTFB? Is it becoming of a Texas Aggie to hang a group of student leaders out to dry after 1999? Well, the people who did those things aren't Texas Aggies, so who cares what they think? I don't judge my value as an Aggie by what an outsider (whether that is Longhorn Bob or someone in the A&M administration) thinks of me.

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We recognize the struggles that can occur as you make decisions whether or not to participate in what may be presented to you as an Aggie tradition...

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So now Residence Life decides what is and isn't a tradition?

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We only ask that you make sound judgments as you continue to represent Texas A&M University as a student and a Fightin' Texas Aggie.

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Don't get caught in that pit - the administration has made it very clear that if you participate in UP you cannot represent Texas A&M University or any student group or on-campus housing establishment. Don't think that your "sound judgment" can include representing A&M.

Or, we could interpret that as the University saying that "if you make a sound judgment to participate in UP, you do in fact represent Texas A&M University," but I don't think our friends in the port-a-offices would like that too much.

BRING BACK BONFIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



This bugs the HELL out of me having NON-AGGIES dictate our traditions, etc!!!

[This message has been edited by Fran da Man (edited 10/22/2003 9:06a).]

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Three years ago he was holding "fireside Chats" with tiki torches on northside to speak about how horrible Bonfire was for A&M. If I'm not mistaken he was the first administrator to openly threaten the student body against off campus Bonfire participation.(& not just KTFB leaders as had been the norm till that point)

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Actually, I think at that fireside-chat was where someone finally pressed Dr. Southerland into admitting that the University had bascially no control over what a student did off-campus. Thsi event was also the first time I met AgStudent.

Bonfire03 - great post.

Hopefully, this letter will backfire on the administration and will result in an increased desire to participate in off-campus bonfire. You would think they would know better than to tell college students that they can't or shouldn't do something.

I was never big on the off campus Bonfire movement when I was in College Station, but all this crap coming from the administration would just galvanize me more toward doing it if I were on campus now.

It's like the anti-smoking commercials you see. I don't smoke, but those commercials are so annoying that they make me want to light up.

The decision is in my hands, and it's called an ax.

I am an RA and have been clearly told not to participate in bonfire. I have been and will be participating in bonfire. I dont abuse my powers as an RA. I dont influence my residents in anyway in their decision to participate or not. Im also not going to try to hide while I participate so that Rotter's spies dont spot me. I just pray that the University isnt really dumb enough to fire me for this. As much as i despise reslife, I still love this University. And it would be a mighty damn shame to have to bring them in front of the EEOC. Although i guess then I would have my tuition paid for the next say...2004 semesters! Whoop!

I love Craig Rotter - and his sister is hot.

Bonfire03...good post, I just got done writing a reply to our old dorm guy listserv that said most of the same posts. I'm gonna be in College Station this weekend and just might go to cut because of this letter.

BRING BACK ON-CAMPUS BONFIRE! Bonfire is an Aggie tradition and so-called administrators that dont wear the ring will never convince me or my Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of '06 daughter that it cant be done. I encourage her to continue participating in all off campus Bonfire activities until the students and Former Students tell the administrators that Bonfire, on campus, is the right thing to do.....Bonfire for me was a time of comraderie with my buds....non-reg and corps alike. My daughter is finding that to be true as well.

"How can an event not at all affiliated with Texas A&M University be an Aggie Tradition?"

TRANSLATED:

If we can't make money on it, it must not be a tradition.

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I am an RA and have been clearly told not to participate in bonfire.

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You might already have grounds for legal action.

Since A&M is still involved and will continue to be involved in lengthy litigation, I believe Mr. Sasse had no choice but to send this letter to the on campus residents. This letter probably came as a result of someone over him concerned about A&M's presence in trial. Regardless of his affiliations or lack there of with A&M, Mr. Sasse was more than likely forced to comply with A&M's defense team with regard to these lawsuits. The changing face of A&M, and its student run Bonfire is not an easy thing to deal with, but we can't put the entire blame on this man just for putting his name and signature at the bottom of the letter. Therefore, everyone should look at the entire administration and come to the reality that they sent these letters for the sole purpose of creating a certain image for the court and it's pending suits.

Humpty,

You're probably right.

I guess your ability to think things through that clearly is why you were chosen for yellow pot? Good post Humpty.

[This message has been edited by PurdueAg01 (edited 10/22/2003 1:56p).]

No, I think the reason that he was chosen was because he was fatter than his brothers. That seemed to be the recurring theme as far back as I can see. Fattest guy gets to be yellow.

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That seemed to be the recurring theme as far back as I can see. Fattest guy gets to be yellow.

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Makes sense. Better counterwieghts for tagline.

While I won't discredit the litigation angle 100%, I think a letter along those lines could have been brief and to the effect of "Texas A&M University is not responsible for unsanctioned activities that take place off of the A&M campus." The whole questionaire style of this letter, with the false and misleading babble about what it means to be an Aggie tradition seems more like an intimidation/slander tactic that a CYA tactic IMO.

[This message has been edited by Mr. (edited 10/22/2003 3:07p).]

Bonfire03, I agree - well written.

I have been here for just a little while in comparision to a lot of ya'll and I am sick of admin. I can only imagine how ya'll feel. I think it's high time something be done about nazi propaganda from them like this. I don't know enough of the facts to organize it, but I bet that if someone were to step up and say what needs to be done, there'd be a big arse group of us behind you. If admin will actually listen to us instead of saying they are listening and it going in one ear and out the other...

Well lechner must not have followed that keegan. Y'all sent some scrawny guys out to run tagline.

Yea, well, our guys were sharp enough to leverage their mass more efficiently.

Danged ole nerds...

This is the best message board I've ever read. After seeing 2 bonfires myself, and being close to one of the vicitms of bonfire '99, I've never been more proud to be an aggie. Knowing there are still aggies out there willing to be a part of something the university is trying so hard to stamp out, is such a comforting thought. I've talked to many people here, and it seems so many are listening to the University's lies and bull****, and feel there can not be a safe bonfire. But after reading all these posts, I am reassured there are many aggies who are ready and willing to support whatever it takes to get bonfire back and running. No matter what the University says, or even threatens. I cant wait to participate in cut for the unity project and I encourage every Aggie alike to come out, and support the tradition, the STUDENTS started, and the STUDENTS plan to help bring back! Thanks and Gig'em!

probonfire06... If you need any information about this year's bonfire or cut and can't find it on www.studentbonfire.com, let me know

Thanks crocker, will do. By the way, I went to cut this past weekend and had a hell of a time. I learned how to use an axe and killed my first tree!! WHOOP! EVERYONE should get involved with the student bonfire, its AWESOME!