do active bonfire participators with decision making power actually pay any attention to texags anyway? might all of you be wasting your time if leadership never hears this anyway?

Regardless of whether they do/should or not, there is something to be said for grassroots support of an organization. Also, those who are simply active but hold no real leadership position should still have a voice in the organization.

The Bonfire leadership does follow texags. For the most part the leaders do not comment on the forum due to the fact that words can be twisted to mean other things by certain parties.

Believe me, texags has influenced some of the Bonfire leadership's decisions before.

Hey, diverse as in a wide array... I never said they had to be hard hitting or deeply cerebral. Most may have been frivolous, (although some was helpful/insightful) but we pumped out a lot of material.

To be honest, I just liked it when I could catch the boards and SOMETHING new would be up there.

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do active bonfire participators with decision making power actually pay any attention to texags anyway?

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Yes.



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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

so then what does leadership think of all these "heinous things" squareone07 has to say? do they pay attention to that too?

Absolutely not. Nobody is welcome to post here or even have an opinion regarding bonfire unless they're talking about how awesome it is, how it's better than ever before, or how awesome other members of the club are. Dissenting viewpoints are not considered, and they are certainly not welcome. Here at the Bonfire forum, people with ideas that maybe ASB is actually a little flawed and that bonfire culture...and yes boys...there IS a bonfire culture...is destructive, immature and sophomoric are not welcome.

Idiot.

That doesn't sound hateful at all.

where's the hate in there? Oh...it's in that whole disagreeing with other people, that's hate on here. It's not hate, it's a statement in opposition to an opinion you and your cronies hold.

I don't have any cronies but I welcome your posts and your views, differing or not. My only wish is they were just a little less pointed. But that is just a wish. And if you don't feel they are pointed, that's okay by me also. I'm pretty easy to get along with.

Good, I'm glad you're not as quick as the others to jump on the defensive, good to be easy going.

I'll invite everyone...no matter if you're the one on []1's side of the fence or if you're still on the fence to review a particular thread that highlights how two-faced and trollish this guy is...

the Schedule For Burn thread from back in October/November 2006.

The thread is about when/where burn is, and what all is happening at site leading up to Bonfire being lit...

At least, for the first few posts...

...then it becomes an argument about why people should attend because a buisness is trying to pay bills...

...and why a midweek Burn isn't a good idea because nobody will come (hehehe...BURN! (pun intended))

But who steered the thread off topic?
I'll give you one guess...

So discussing the financial and business aspects of something like burn have nothing to do with burn? Odd.

Please bear in mind that this is not the official forum of ASB. The ASB leadership has no control over what is posted here and what topics are discussed. The TexAgs staff are the only ones that have that power and, if memory serves, this forum was set up to discuss and offer mutual support for the '99 tragedy. It has been allowed to morph into what it is by the Staff.

Contrary to popular belief, opposing views are welcomed by the more level headed of us and hey are discussed when we meet. Just because those issues are not aired here, does not mean they are not heard. Of course, you don't believe that so I just wasted about 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Scott Coker '92

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So discussing the financial and business aspects of something like burn have nothing to do with burn? Odd.

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Correct. Discussing the financial and buisness aspects of Burn have nothing to do with informing people when, where, and how Burn will will occur, and helping people plan out what they need to be able to do to get there.

Good Lord, squareone may be the biggest hippie sip troll I've seen so far. Tell me, how many 'ol army' Bonfires/Cuts/Stacks did you go to? Then who are you to say that things aren't the way they were before? If old Redpots support bonfire today, then it must not have strayed too far, right? And if you can't handle the personality of those who participate in bonfire, then maybe you really don't belong out there. They (we)'re out there to get a job done, not sit around telling each other how nice they look in their pots and boots. I'll be the first to admit, I don't always agree with the attitude people have in the woods, but if that happens you just deal with it for something you believe in. That's not to say I never like the attitude out there. If you think that people were politically correct (on today's standards) throughout the history of bonfire, then I don't have to have been there to tell you that you're dead wrong. And I take pride in being a part of something that has been going on that long.

I can understand wanting to voice your opinion, but I really can't see the point in *****ing to people that don't give a sh it.

It boils down to us not knowing what went on in discussions. At the very least, I can provide you some insight on how Federal agencies have arrived at such tragedies.

It's called Groupthink, which is a prevailing view that nothing bad will happen and challenges to that notion are suppressed.

That's what happend in the Challenger and Columbia accidents:
-Challenger: NASA launched the shuttle despite cold temperatures. Engineers argued to their management that the O-rings wouldn't hold in the temperatures... but were shut up through coercive tactics. The shuttle exploded 73 seconds after launch pn Jan. 26, 1986 because the O-rings didn't hold.
-Columbia: The shuttle was struck by foam insulation during launch. This was a regular flight risk and arguments about the drastic size of this instance were completely ignored. The shuttle disentigrated during re-entry on Feb. 1, 2003 because of the foam strike.

Federal investigations were spearheaded after these incidents. Aside from the technical aspects, it was found that decision-making processes had a lot to do with the disasters.

Thus, it's reasonable to assume that some kind of risk management was voiced to/from A&M officials. It's also reasonable to assume based on decision-making research that such information could have been discounted.

I haven't read the Bonfire Commission report. I don't know if the decision-making processes were addressed, but it is something interesting to question.

Regardless, we don't know what happend because we weren't there and don't have record of close-door discussions. So, asking such questions will illicit the response that you recieved because any sort of discussion is based upon assumptions and is mere speculation.

Coop, please tell me your entire post is a joke. Or blame it on something. Like you're drunk. Or a freshman. Or you're trying to impress somebody. Or something. Just please please please tell me that you weren't serious. Tell me you weren't serious when you called me a "hippie sip troll", or when you thought that peoples' attitudes out at Bonfire scare me away. Tell me that you weren't serious when you think that I think people go out there to " sit around telling each other how nice they look in their pots and boots", though, I'm sure you find some fellas out there rather strapping. Please tell me you don't want anybody to take you seriously when you post such idiotic things. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you're a freshman, right? Kid, really, don't make yourself look like a fool and please think before you post. Saying those kinds of things really embarasses the people whose side of the fence you happen to fall on. I may not agree with a lot of the people that post around here, but I respect them and their opinions whether it looks that way or not. Even Nick.

Just because some reds see bonfire today and liken it to the Bonfire of old doesn't make that so. I've talked to people from the 90's, 80's, 70's, and 60's both at work through my job and through social events like tailgates who fall on both sides of the fence. You don't need first hand accounts to know what something was like. In many ways ASB has done an excellent job in moving away from some of the dangerous practices of old that compromised the integrity and safety of Bonfire.

Coop...gah...I just don't even know. Think a little more, say stupid things a little less, and maybe then you won't make yourself out to be an idiot.

Greek, I think we all appreciate your honesty and objectivity in the matter. You bring up a very valid point with Groupthink and that we don't know what exactly happened in those discussions.

And coop, the point of voicing your opinion to people who don't give a **** is to encourage people to think. Have you never considered that? Maybe tossing out some different ideas can spur change, change for the better, or at the very least open up a few eyes to some other perspectives. It's not always a good idea to get your opinions from those who think just like you.

I applaud your observational skills in guessing that I'm a freshman, just as I guessed that you are a senior based on the fact that you have 07 in your name. That doesn't make me any less intelligent than you are. You made quick retorts to what others had to say when they were contrary to your own thoughts. How are you then going to patronize me for making similarly blunt remarks in response to your posts?

I liken my response to you to how you've responded to any other pro-bonfire enthusiasts on here who you assume to be completely closed-minded drones. You seem to automatically discard anything they say, and while I'd like to attribute that to a genuine concern for safety on your part, I can't help but get this image in my head of a self-righteous tool who can't handle being around people with egos as big as their own.

As for your most recent post, that's the only thing you said that was any more "mature" or "well thought out" than anything I said (with the admitted exception of calling you a hippie sip troll...sorry if I hurt your feelings). And I see your reasoning there.

But as you say...

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You call it like you see it, I'll call it like I see it.

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[This message has been edited by agcoop10 (edited 4/18/2007 12:34a).]

I am positive I am more intelligent than you are, that was never anything I was concerned about or anything I even considered, I just knew it. That also doesn't really enter into this conversation unfortunately.

Your first attempt at a post was so ridiculous and sophomoric that there were many many moments when I actually had to consider the fact that you were yanking my chain. But then I decided to go ahead and play along and think you were serious, and holy smokes, you were! That's unfortunate, because now we all know that you actually think that way. Oh well.

Your second post is not as ridiculous, but only in relation to your first post. You fail to address anything I said to you. Rather, you just went ahead and called me a self-righteous too, I bet that made you feel smug. You really didn't do a great job of making any sense unfortunately. If you really feel the way you do about me, and you seem to harbor an extreme amount of animosity towards me for reasons I can't understand, then I encourage you to either get to know me, or ask your friendly Sr. Green about what a self-righteous sip troll hippie tool I am and see what sort of response that gets you.

Now, I'm not gonna waste your time, my time, or anybody else's time getting in a pissing match with a kid like you. You can think of me as a self-righteous tool until your mother comes home, but this thread should go back to the people and should go back to a discussion.

TIA

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You fail to address anything I said to you.

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This coming from the guy who took 7 lines coming up with different ways to call me an idiot, weakly addressing what I said to YOU, then deciding to call me an idiot once again.

Thank you for being less sophomoric than me.

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I can't help but get this image in my head of a self-righteous tool who can't handle being around people with egos as big as their own.

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Pot-kettle much?

My thought on the matter is that Square, you do react fairly quickly, which might make your argument seem a little weak -- that you take the defensive immediately and therefore you are wrong and know it (even if you're just trying to have lively discussion). HOWEVER, I see where you're going with the things that you say. Others probably don't.

It's easy to jump on the bandwagon against people that pose difficult questions. I'd venture to say that this time last year, I'd be taking the same defensive stance. HOW DARE ANYONE QUESTION THE ALMIGHTY THAT IS BONFIRE!!! Grad school's taught me that I have the right to ask such questions to make decisions for myself as opposed to blindly accepting "truths". Many times, asking such questions garners interesting responses and chances to learn. So don't feel bad for wanting to know.

And take Opie's comments with a grain of salt (Thomas, you know I love you). He means well and he had a good point... He just likes to make interesting analogies. That's what started this whole argument. And you'll rarely win in an argument against him. I know from experience.

I don't know -- maybe you are a troll and maybe I'm giving you too much of the benefit of the doubt.

Greek, I have a pretty good idea who you are, and you know me too. It's not a troll, and like I've said feel free to ask the gal that lives upstairs. I do tend to hop on the defensive rather quick, but that's what has to end up happening time after time in these discussions, so I suppose it's just become a pretty natural reaction.

I know you know what I'm saying, and I know others do as well. And if that's the case, just as in the "Leadership Question" thread, then maybe a few people having similar concerns and those people educate a few more...well then maybe discussion like that is enough to start to blow the winds of change.

Thanks for chiming in on the matter and being able to see past "The Almighty".

P.S. I don't know why it took me as long as it did to realize who you are.

Thanks for the objectivity, Greek. I can see how my comments would be like the pot calling the kettle black. Just as long as I'm not the pot calling the kettle...blue, or something. On the off chance that that analogy makes ANY sense whatsoever. They're just opinions.

I think I know who you are too. Facebook message me so we can verify

And coop -- Analogies are EVIL. One MUST not use them. ESPECIALLY if they're not grounded in empirical theory.

get some stars and we could avoid this whole facebook thing

...facebooked...

I'm a broke, poor, married graduate student going into public service.

I don't have money, nor will I ever.

Didn't get a message -- what initials do you think I have?

At least you can make babies!

BWT?

God approves.






Check facebook.

I was pretty worried there for a minute wondering who I was talking to if it wasn't you

I was fostering a conspiracy theory.

This doesn't surprise me, you grad students don't have much else to do, do you?