dermdoc said:kurt vonnegut said:
How would you determine if Trump is an agent of God or of the devil?
Holy Spirit discernment.
Not sure I follow.
How is this possible? (Trump shooting prophecy)
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Last: 3 mo ago by Rongagin71
Not sure I follow.
PabloSerna said:Technically, the devil can do nothing that God does not permit. God 101.kurt vonnegut said:
How would you determine if Trump is an agent of God or of the devil?
I struggle then to find a distinction between an action by God and an action by the devil.
dermdoc said:Sapper Redux said:dermdoc said:Some of the Bible's biggest faith heroes were very Trump like. David, Moses, Jacob, Jonah, Abraham (passed his wife off as his sister), etc.BluHorseShu said:I agree with you Doc, but also that either sets of 'fruits' you both listed are not currently observed in the man. So I too pray for Trump to realize how impactful this moment is and the opportunity it presents for him to change...not just for himself but for the prosperity of the country.dermdoc said:Agree.kurt vonnegut said:jonb02 said:But ask yourself how likely is it that he would be spot on about the bullet damaging his right ear. It's one thing to say someone is going to kill or try to kill Trump. Given the political mess we are in it's not a stretch for someone to predict that someone would try to kill Trump so I'm not even talking about that. It's an entirely other thing to say a bullet is going to come so close to killing him that it's going to damage his right ear. That is very specific details and not the same thing as a busted clock being right twice a day.Sapper Redux said:
Kay. Ask him for lottery numbers next. This is how psychics work. You take something very likely and add a bit of detail so that if it happens you look like you have foresight and if it doesn't happen, or something close to it happens, you can gloss over what you got wrong.
Sorry I have to disagree with you on this one.
According to the prediction, after Trump was to duck down, he would have a profound religious experience. The reports I saw said that Trump asked several times about his shoes directly after the shooting. But, that aside, would it be a fair assessment of this prophecy that, if true, we should expect Trump to have been changed or affected by this religious experience? The prediction is that he becomes 'really on fire for Jesus . . .' after this.
I'm open to withholding judgement of the prophecy until we see if he's been changed to be more Christ-like. And what are characteristics of someone that is Christ-like? Someone that is kind, loving, respectful, understanding, patient, humble, compassionate, forgiving, etc.? Feel free to modify my description of 'Christ-like'.
I propose that we monitor Trump's comments and social media posts going forward and we can evaluate together whether his comments meet the description above. It will be a fun experiment.
Just a slight modification as you definitely get the idea of being Christ like.
The fruits of the Spirit as listed in Scripture are peace, joy, love, patience, kindness, gentleness, generosity, faithfulness, and self control.
In fact, it seems as if God chose a lot of folks like Trump in the past.
We shall see.
The only comparable figure in your list (going by the biblical text) is David, whom the Bible is clear was weakened and degraded by his sins leading to a civil war amongst his sons. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Trump's family are not like David's.
The kids who funneled money from a children's cancer charity?
But I'm not making a 1:1 comparison. I'm saying the Bible in its own narratives states that a ruler or leader can only bring greatness and maintain it while they personally follow the law. Trump doesn't do that. Not even close.
Macarthur said:dermdoc said:Macarthur said:
But that still doesn't reconcile the original point of why would God intervene w Trump and not others?
The little ones in Uvalde could have used some help.
The age old question of why is there so much evil. And why does a good God allow it.
I read Job.
And I have faith this is not the only life we will live.
I saw this a long time ago and am reminded every time this type of discussion comes up.
There's an old Jewish joke:
A Holocaust survivor dies and goes to the world to come. God is there to greet him. The man asks God if he can tell him a joke. God agrees and the man tells a Holocaust joke. God looks at him and says, "That's awful." The man shrugs, "I guess you had to be there."
As I mentioned earlier, it is always about why there is so much evil in the world. And if there is a God that is good, why is nothing done about it?
I will say I do not understand. But do have faith in a good God. Because without there is no hope. You live, you die for nothing. Sorry but I do not accept that.
And think about the early Christians in Rome. They were martyred and persecuted. Yet they had hope in an eternal life and persevered.
I will say I do not understand. But do have faith in a good God. Because without there is no hope. You live, you die for nothing. Sorry but I do not accept that.
And think about the early Christians in Rome. They were martyred and persecuted. Yet they had hope in an eternal life and persevered.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
When you give your life to Christ you are filled with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives you wisdom and discernment.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:kurt vonnegut said:
How would you determine if Trump is an agent of God or of the devil?
Holy Spirit discernment.
Not sure I follow.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
And I believe God was there. He is always with us.Sapper Redux said:Macarthur said:dermdoc said:Macarthur said:
But that still doesn't reconcile the original point of why would God intervene w Trump and not others?
The little ones in Uvalde could have used some help.
The age old question of why is there so much evil. And why does a good God allow it.
I read Job.
And I have faith this is not the only life we will live.
I saw this a long time ago and am reminded every time this type of discussion comes up.
There's an old Jewish joke:
A Holocaust survivor dies and goes to the world to come. God is there to greet him. The man asks God if he can tell him a joke. God agrees and the man tells a Holocaust joke. God looks at him and says, "That's awful." The man shrugs, "I guess you had to be there."
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
I find that some, maybe not you, tend to give "evil" a power it does not have. Like yin-yang, complimentary forces in opposition. Instead, good and evil, in RCC, are more like light and shadow, hot and cold.
Pilate made this mistake when he told Jesus, that he had the power to spare his life. Jesus correctly stated that he has no power that was not given to him from above.
Jesus was still condemned to death by Pilate. However, there was a greater good that came about from his death- the resurrection. This is the good news. HTH
Pilate made this mistake when he told Jesus, that he had the power to spare his life. Jesus correctly stated that he has no power that was not given to him from above.
Jesus was still condemned to death by Pilate. However, there was a greater good that came about from his death- the resurrection. This is the good news. HTH
Imagine thinking God had anything to do with Trump surviving, but he didn't do **** for those kids in Uvalde and thinking that this was a being that deserved any kind of respect, let alone adoration.
TDS is real but it's affecting his cult followers
TDS is real but it's affecting his cult followers
I think Trump, if he completes what he says he will, could make him an agent of God....maybe not necessarily Godly himself, but serving the Lords plans. I don't believe I have seen or felt anything that leads me to believe he has been. Although the SCOTUS pics were great...he's already backtracking on complete bans.dermdoc said:When you give your life to Christ you are filled with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives you wisdom and discernment.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:kurt vonnegut said:
How would you determine if Trump is an agent of God or of the devil?
Holy Spirit discernment.
Not sure I follow.
It would be great if everyone saw a genuine change in him from his near death experience. I think it would carry enormous weight in garnering support even from moderate Dems who are Christian.
So I pray for that...and that we don't go down the road of retribution the next 4 years. Jesus told us the 2 greatest commandments...and we could certainly use them right now in this country.
Good posts. Also, Good can exist without evil, but evil cannot exist with out Good. Evil is only the choice not to choose Good. This is why good is inherent in humans, but is sometimes corrupted to the point where they choose evil.PabloSerna said:
I find that some, maybe not you, tend to give "evil" a power it does not have. Like yin-yang, complimentary forces in opposition. Instead, good and evil, in RCC, are more like light and shadow, hot and cold.
Pilate made this mistake when he told Jesus, that he had the power to spare his life. Jesus correctly stated that he has no power that was not given to him from above.
Jesus was still condemned to death by Pilate. However, there was a greater good that came about from his death- the resurrection. This is the good news. HTH
It's hard to wrap my mind around how offensive of a statement that is. That God was for some reason looking out for Trump but couldn't be bothered to look out for the guy in the audience or any of the kids in Uvalde or Sandy Hook or wherever.schmendeler said:
Imagine thinking God had anything to do with Trump surviving, but he didn't do **** for those kids in Uvalde and thinking that this was a being that deserved any kind of respect, let alone adoration.
TDS is real but it's affecting his cult followers
if God did indeed save Trump, the only question I would ask him is why. What kind of priorities does God have exactly, to spare Trump but not so many others who are clearly more innocent than he?
Just more nonsense from a cult who sees Trump as a Godlike figure himself. Everything he does, no matter how wrong, is righteous, and every good thing that happens to him, is God ordained.
While I absolutely wish the guy did not die, it doesn't appear like he did a good job showing that. No, I don't know him, but he posted some pretty grotesque things on the internet. He made callous and cruel comments about Palestinian kids being bombed into oblivion and made other ugly comments about black people being DEI hires. Yeah I know, the internet brings out the worst in people. But he also influenced his wife so much with his hatred that she refused to take a call from Biden simply to offer his condolences. I'm not going to be too hard on her given that she's going through a traumatic situation, but I just found that sad, no matter what you think about Biden.dermdoc said:The victim was a devout Christian and yes, they are comforted by that fact.Rex Racer said:Macarthur said:I've seen this sentiment all over social media.RAB91 said:
God was definitely looking out for Trump yesterday.
As much as I dislike the man, I'm very glad he is okay and this type of thing is reprehensible, but do you really believe this?
I mean, was God looking after the poor guy in the crowd that got his head blown open?
If the man was a follower of Christ, then the answer is yes. God was and is still looking after the guy in the crowd who died.
I don't know if he was or not.
He absolutely did not deserve to die, but let's not paint him as a saint either. Maybe he went to church, but he was about as Christlike as Trump. If anything, I wish he would have lived and come to let go of his hatred for others that was undoubtedly influenced by Trump.
Your last sentence is just flat out wrong. Trump is not a Godlike figure. He is just a man that may be serving God's purposes at times, and other times not.barbacoa taco said:It's hard to wrap my mind around how offensive of a statement that is. That God was for some reason looking out for Trump but couldn't be bothered to look out for the guy in the audience or any of the kids in Uvalde or Sandy Hook or wherever.schmendeler said:
Imagine thinking God had anything to do with Trump surviving, but he didn't do **** for those kids in Uvalde and thinking that this was a being that deserved any kind of respect, let alone adoration.
TDS is real but it's affecting his cult followers
if God did indeed save Trump, the only question I would ask him is why. What kind of priorities does God have exactly, to spare Trump but not so many others who are clearly more innocent than he?
Just more nonsense from a cult who sees Trump as a Godlike figure himself. Everything he does, no matter how wrong, is righteous, and every good thing that happens to him, is God ordained.
We will not understand the reasons why God allows certain things to happen and intervenes in other things as long as we are living on this Earth. But a large part of the reason is that God gave us free will. That means we are capable of good but also of evil. And since evil entered the world, bad things have happened.
Isaiah 55:8-9 says,
"8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the Lord.
9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."
As human beings, we aren't capable of understanding God's ways because we don't see the big picture.
Some of you are being incredibly stupid.
Trump will be the leader of the free world and his actions will impact billions of people. Does it really need to be spelled out to you why that might move the needle a bit from a divine perspective?
Trump will be the leader of the free world and his actions will impact billions of people. Does it really need to be spelled out to you why that might move the needle a bit from a divine perspective?
Incredibly stupid?
Really?
wow
Really?
wow
Silent For Too Long said:
Some of you are being incredibly stupid.
Trump will be the leader of the free world and his actions will impact billions of people. Does it really need to be spelled out to you why that might move the needle a bit from a divine perspective?
He gets God's special blessing? Did that apply to people like Hitler or Stalin?
Why is this logic never applied to Joe Biden and used to accept his positions?
Sapper Redux said:
Why is this logic never applied to Joe Biden and used to accept his positions?
Funny how that works
What are his positions? Truly curious.Sapper Redux said:
Why is this logic never applied to Joe Biden and used to accept his positions?
And why are we talking this on the R&P forum?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Maybe we should have a progressive forum?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Read the OPdermdoc said:What are his positions? Truly curious.Sapper Redux said:
Why is this logic never applied to Joe Biden and used to accept his positions?
And why are we talking this on the R&P forum?
I have. What does that have to do with Biden's positions on anything?Macarthur said:Read the OPdermdoc said:What are his positions? Truly curious.Sapper Redux said:
Why is this logic never applied to Joe Biden and used to accept his positions?
And why are we talking this on the R&P forum?
And why is this on the R&P forum and not the politics forum?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc said:What are his positions? Truly curious.Sapper Redux said:
Why is this logic never applied to Joe Biden and used to accept his positions?
And why are we talking this on the R&P forum?
The OP is more political, but given that this isn't the politics forum, I wasn't going for policy specifics. I was referring to this elision of Trump's character and focus on his role as a leader chosen by God, seemingly relieving his supporters of having to square the circle of claiming to be concerned about morality while being led by a man of his character, words, and behaviors, while not extending the same theological space to Biden and his behaviors.
Here is the op. What am I supposed to see?jonb02 said:
Start watching at 11:00 minute mark for about 30 seconds or so.
Mind you this video was made months ago.
Bald guy was oddly specific.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
I'm not sure what to tell you, doc. The question was pretty clear and is def along the same line of discussion for the thread.
So I read the op numerous times.Macarthur said:
I'm not sure what to tell you, doc. The question was pretty clear and is def along the same line of discussion for the thread.
What do you think the question is?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
The entire thread is about how 'God has shown favor to Trump in some way. It's completely logical to ask the question of the posters on this board that are Christian why the same doesn't apply to Biden. There are many Christians that vote for him and I'm sure pray for him daily.
I pray for Biden daily.
But nobody has shot at him. And thank God for that.
And if somebody did shoot at Biden I hope that God intervenes. Like He did with Trump.
But nobody has shot at him. And thank God for that.
And if somebody did shoot at Biden I hope that God intervenes. Like He did with Trump.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Sapper Redux said:
Why is this logic never applied to Joe Biden and used to accept his positions?
I am not even using it to justify Trump's positions. And as far as I am aware, Joe has not experienced an attempt on his life nor had a close brush with death. But even he plays a role in this life that could serve God's purposes, or not. Same as Trump.
I happen to think Joe a horrible president and person, but that has nothing to do with it, and I pray for all of our leaders.
It occurred to me while reading the last page or so here that we are discussing a bar for presidency that is ridiculously way too high.
Maybe we start with looking for political leaders with the bare minimum level of basic humanity, decency, and sense of duty toward the people they are supposed to be advocating for. Politicians are about the most
narcissistic, greedy, self serving, and dishonest people on the planet and here we are trying to argue which one are an instrument of God and which one's aren't. Who T F do we think we are fooling? None of them are instruments of God. That some of them sometimes do something that agrees with your God is only an indication that they still need to compete for your vote.
Maybe we start with looking for political leaders with the bare minimum level of basic humanity, decency, and sense of duty toward the people they are supposed to be advocating for. Politicians are about the most
narcissistic, greedy, self serving, and dishonest people on the planet and here we are trying to argue which one are an instrument of God and which one's aren't. Who T F do we think we are fooling? None of them are instruments of God. That some of them sometimes do something that agrees with your God is only an indication that they still need to compete for your vote.
Am i the only one that finds it odd that we have seen no sort of medical report on Trump? I mean, Biden tested positive for covid and it was released within minutes. Getting medical reports on our leaders in situations like this has very much been the norm.
Well, I've completely let go of thinking highly of any politician. I think 99%> of them fit the description you stated. They don't care about any of us or anyone outside their exclusive club. But at the end of the day, they aren't that different from us. They come from our communities and are elected by us. They just follow the money once they are in a position of power. It's not personal, it's just how it is.kurt vonnegut said:
It occurred to me while reading the last page or so here that we are discussing a bar for presidency that is ridiculously way too high.
Maybe we start with looking for political leaders with the bare minimum level of basic humanity, decency, and sense of duty toward the people they are supposed to be advocating for. Politicians are about the most
narcissistic, greedy, self serving, and dishonest people on the planet and here we are trying to argue which one are an instrument of God and which one's aren't. Who T F do we think we are fooling? None of them are instruments of God. That some of them sometimes do something that agrees with your God is only an indication that they still need to compete for your vote.
This is all very cynical I know but once I came to terms with this everything made so much more sense. Trump isn't sent by God. Biden isn't sent by God. One is a greedy billionaire who is power hungry in the worst way. The other is a lifelong politician who is just as power hungry, except in his case he's so narcissistic and arrogant he refuses to admit that it's time to pass the torch to the next generation.
and to be honest, i'm surprised it took this long for there to be a real assassination attempt against Trump. things have been way too heated and divided for years now.
Macarthur said:
Am i the only one that finds it odd that we have seen no sort of medical report on Trump? I mean, Biden tested positive for covid and it was released within minutes. Getting medical reports on our leaders in situations like this has very much been the norm.
I mean . . . . of all the things that make me scratch my head these days, this is pretty low on the list.
'Like He did with Trump"...dermdoc said:
I pray for Biden daily.
But nobody has shot at him. And thank God for that.
And if somebody did shoot at Biden I hope that God intervenes. Like He did with Trump.
I often hear Christians say things like that and it does not bother me because I understand that although it makes no sense to claim to know what God is doing or will do in the future, it is said out of celebration and support for someone believed to be a fellow Christian. The assumption that there is a God bothers me.
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