When did St. Francis De Sales transition to an Episcopalian?

Just wondering if they read any of his works on protestantism?

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has completed a gender transition

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impossible

zero tolerance is the correct amount of tolerance

jrico2727 said:

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When did St. Francis De Sales transition to an Episcopalian?

Just wondering if they read any of his works on protestantism?

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I had similar thoughts... Based doctor of the Church and bishop from the reformation period as patron of an Episcopal school? What?

747Ag said:

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jrico2727 said:

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When did St. Francis De Sales transition to an Episcopalian?

Just wondering if they read any of his works on protestantism?

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I had similar thoughts... Based doctor of the Church and bishop from the reformation period as patron of an Episcopal school? What?

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Shook me as well, figured it had to be a Catholic school at first

Sapper Redux said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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zero tolerance is the correct amount of tolerance

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What would "zero tolerance" look like?

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What does "zero tolerance for firearms" look like?

I don't think the Episcopalian school is going to summarily execute the trans teacher, which is what you're breathlessly hoping someone suggests.

Firing, sapper. Immediate termination. The metaphorical equivalent of salting the ground. Making sure anyone who thinks about using a Christian school as a platform to broadcast their mind virus thinks differently.

Trans people exist. To act as if their existence is something inappropriate to have around children is silly imo.

The whole trans panic is one of the weirder things the religious have decided to focus on in the last five years.

Body dysmorphia to the point of gender identity crisis and transitioning is a mental illness. I don't need to put a value judgment on it or say it is morally corrupt or anything to make that statement. It is as much of a mental illness as a severe eating disorder, or the kind of body image issues that drive anabolic steroid use in some men.

It is not a panic or even a hot take to suggest that people with mental illnesses should not be teaching grade school children.

schmendeler said:

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Trans people exist. To act as if their existence is something inappropriate to have around children is silly imo.

The whole trans panic is one of the weirder things the religious have decided to focus on in the last five years.

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It's in appropriate, it's a mental illness that has turned into the "ripped knees on your jeans" of the 1990s due to social contagion.

Especially this case where you have a person who transitioned over the summer. Ms so and so is a man now, is not a conversation needed to be had with minors, or even adults

schmendeler said:

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Trans people exist. To act as if their existence is something inappropriate to have around children is silly imo.

The whole trans panic is one of the weirder things the religious have decided to focus on in the last five years.

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If its a private school, they can teach what they want and fire teachers for whatever reason they want as far as I'm concerned.

And they can also continue to hate everyone with a different worldviews while simultaneously wondering why American society is starting to move away from traditional Christian views, if they wish.

Hate?

Sorry if I've misrepresented. . . . I didn't know societal dumpster fire being used in reference to trans people was a term of endearment.

Making a value judgment on the coherence and wisdom of a society based on how they respond to mental illness isn't hate. It wasn't made toward trans people, but I think you know that.

As always, you are correct, I'm sure. Its weird, for me, when someone refers to another person's values as being like a dumptser fire, or as poisoned, diseased, and leading to the downfall of society, I assume there is something beyond mere disagreement with their values. I'm sure that is just me, though. In the future, I'll be sure to refer to Christianity as a mental illness contributing to a societal dumpster fire so that you know that I love and respect you, but just disagree with your views.

You can pretend all day long that all religious opposition to LGBTQ persons isn't rooted in hate. . . because, maybe, that is not the case for you. But, I don't see why you feel the need to stand up for other Christians who are motived by this hate.

I mean, for ****'s sake Z, do you really not see any issue with the language used to describe trans people? I have too much respect for you and your intelligence to believe that you think this is healthy or respectful.

This talk of hate by Christians towards the Alphabet is so tiring. A parochial school is established with the intent of teaching through a Biblical/Ecclesiastical worldview. So naturally, if something is explicitly forbidden by God in his moral law, it should be forbidden in a school attempting to uphold those values. No different than the baker that keeps getting harassed by the Alphabet community to bake cakes for their ceremonies. It really isn't that hard.

For all I care, society can go out and build Alphabet schools that pretend to be inclusive of everything under the sun. Doesn't seem to be much of a market for it, however.

Disease and poison are good metaphors for things that take a healthy thing and decay over time. Some values are bad for society. There's nothing wrong with talking about societal decay - but this is an inherently value driven discussion.

But I didn't say anything about anyone's values. Body dysmorphia is a mental illness. It is something that is not present in normal, healthy people. People who suffer from that may have good values, they may be Christians! They might also have terrible values. That's a different discussion.

Body dysmorphia is not a "value". It's not a moral code or philosophy, any more than bulimia or schizophrenia or depression are. It is absurd to structure the discussion in this way. It is also absurd to say that acknowledging this is tantamount to hatred.

schmendeler said:

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Where is being transexual explicitly forbidden?

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The Catholic Church has issues about 15 different denunciations most recently being Dignitas Infinita, from April.

Zobel said:

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Disease and poison are good metaphors for things that take a healthy thing and decay over time. Some values are bad for society. There's nothing wrong with talking about societal decay - but this is an inherently value driven discussion.

But I didn't say anything about anyone's values. Body dysmorphia is a mental illness. It is something that is not present in normal, healthy people. People who suffer from that may have good values, they may be Christians! They might also have terrible values. That's a different discussion.

Body dysmorphia is not a "value". It's not a moral code or philosophy, any more than bulimia or schizophrenia or depression are. It is absurd to structure the discussion in this way. It is also absurd to say that acknowledging this is tantamount to hatred.

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When disagreements about these values are expressed in a way that looks, feels, smells, and tastes like a personal attack by everyone person who holds the opposite value, it is going to elicit an emotional response . . . . not a value driven discussion. Again, I refuse to believe you are not intelligent enough to get this.

I am simply suggesting that you (not you specifically) consider the way you talk about other people. Even though I disagree with your views, I am totally fine with everything you've said above. We don't have to agree. But, when someone refers to another person's values as a dumpster fire, what do you expect?

Maybe Christians are sincere in wanting to reach people with body dysmorphia and help them. Thats great! I am telling you, that most of these people hate you because of the way you talk about them. If you want to continue with the 'mental illness' angle, then fine. Bulimia is a mental illness as you suggested. While most people do not encourage this illness and recognize it is damaging, no one refers to it as societal dumptster fire brining about the downfall of civilization. Most people react with compassion and understanding and offer help. Same goes for depression.

Here is my recommendation - talk to and about people with body dysmorphia with the same level of compassion and understanding as a veteran suffering from depression or person born with a bipolar disorder.

Again - none of this is specifically directed at you. Its directed to the Christians here more generally.

Genesis 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Psalm 139:13-14
13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Deuteronomy 22:5
5 "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

I disagree with this premise/framing, but what if being trans is a mental illness, and the only treatment is for them to transition? It seems like the religious response is for them to just suck it up, which pretty clearly leads to increased depression and or suicide. I don't see much compassion given that reality.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Genesis 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Psalm 139:13-14
13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.

Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Deuteronomy 22:5
5 "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

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Soo nothing explicit

How explicit do you want? The Bible was written millennia ago, so "LGBTQ" won't be mentioned. Deut. 22:5 is fairly explicit regarding a man acting as a woman and vice versa. The rest is context, since that is typically important.

schmendeler said:

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I disagree with this premise/framing, but what if being trans is a mental illness, and the only treatment is for them to transition? It seems like the religious response is for them to just suck it up, which pretty clearly leads to increased depression and or suicide. I don't see much compassion given that reality.

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Now apply that logic to anorexia:

90 lbs anorexic: "Look at me! I'm disgusting and fat!"
Your reasoning: "Oh, you're right, have this celery stick and run 10 miles. I'll affirm your transitioning."

NoahAg said:

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schmendeler said:

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I disagree with this premise/framing, but what if being trans is a mental illness, and the only treatment is for them to transition? It seems like the religious response is for them to just suck it up, which pretty clearly leads to increased depression and or suicide. I don't see much compassion given that reality.

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Now apply that logic to anorexia:

90 lbs anorexic: "Look at me! I'm disgusting and fat!"
Your reasoning: "Oh, you're right, have this celery stick and run 10 miles. I'll affirm your transitioning."

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We are trying to avoid death, not increase it.

schmendeler said:

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NoahAg said:

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schmendeler said:

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I disagree with this premise/framing, but what if being trans is a mental illness, and the only treatment is for them to transition? It seems like the religious response is for them to just suck it up, which pretty clearly leads to increased depression and or suicide. I don't see much compassion given that reality.

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Now apply that logic to anorexia:

90 lbs anorexic: "Look at me! I'm disgusting and fat!"
Your reasoning: "Oh, you're right, have this celery stick and run 10 miles. I'll affirm your transitioning."

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We are trying to avoid death, not increase it.

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That's not what transitioning does and it's being rethought overseas where it isn't a sacred cow like here.

What value are we talking about right now? What value was referred to as a dumpster fire??


If society was treating bulimia and depression the way we are treating gender dysmorphia, the same dumpster fire critique would be leveled.

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I am telling you, that most of these people hate you because of the way you talk about them

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I'm glad we have finally agreed on where the actual hate is.

Affirming a destructive mental illness is not love. Acknowledging it as such is not hate. Mentally ill people do not behave rationally, and I agree that hatred is often a reaction. I'd chalk that up as a secondary effect of the mental illness.

I'm telling you what I think is a reason for why your message about body dysmorphia is poorly received by those affected. You can consider the perspective or you can dismiss it. Thats all. . . .

I don't see how this has anything to do with my message. You're talking about values and insults and I don't know what all. It seems more like what I said was poorly received by you.