An AI generated image of Christ based on the shroud of Turin

3,989 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by nortex97
Quo Vadis?
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Be honest. Does this picture stir any emotions in you? I actually feel something when I stare into its eyes; a sense of peace and a longing, of incompleteness.

Maybe it's my brain tricking me into what I want to feel, but let me know your thoughts
RAB91
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The background for the above post...

Faithful Ag
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Quo Vadis? said:





My Lord and my God

I absolutely love the Shroud of Turin. For anyone skeptical please watch the video below. It's well with your time (3 hours).

https://www.youtube.com/live/HAbuG-oVq1Q?feature=shared

John 20: 3-10 said:

So Peter went out with the other disciple, and they were going toward the tomb. Both of them were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. And stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there, and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus' head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself. Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed; for as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that he must rise from the dead. Then the disciples went back to their homes.
Do you think they just left the Linen cloths laying there?
Windy City Ag
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AG
I have accepted at this point the anthropology argument that Jesus, born as a Jew in Galilee, probably looked like this and the more widely accepted images do in fact represent Byzantine era marketing to the masses.

barnag
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Windy City Ag said:

I have accepted at this point the anthropology argument that Jesus, born as a Jew in Galilee, probably looked like this and the more widely accepted images do in fact represent Byzantine era marketing to the masses.




I have accepted this as well.

The OP picture reminds me more of Jared Leto than what I think Jesus probably looked like.


The Banned
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Windy City Ag said:

I have accepted at this point the anthropology argument that Jesus, born as a Jew in Galilee, probably looked like this and the more widely accepted images do in fact represent Byzantine era marketing to the masses.




I find this similar to the "all Asian people look the same" or "all black people look the same" statements. Because the average guy looked like this, Jesus must have looked like this? There are plenty of variances inside of each race, ranging from facial feature, height and skin tone.

If that's how Jesus looked I'm cool with it. I don't really care. I don't care if he was sub-Saharan dark or lily white. But I don't find "the average guy looked like this" very compelling.
Windy City Ag
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AG
Quote:

I find this similar to the "all Asian people look the same" or "all black people look the same" statements. Because the average guy looked like this, Jesus must have looked like this? There are plenty of variances inside of each race, ranging from facial feature, height and skin tone.

I have been most influenced in the argument by the 1-3rd century depictions before the Zeus inspired Byzantine image took over popular imagination.

Most all of the images were beardless.

We know enough from archaeological record of Galilee at that time to know a white European appearance was extremely unlikely. Both the Torah and the Bible discuss how Moses and Paul were considered Egyptian in their appearance.

Yukon Cornelius
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AG
Wouldn't Jesus look like people from the tribe of Judah today?
Martin Q. Blank
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Yukon Cornelius said:

Wouldn't Jesus look like people from the tribe of Judah today?
What tribe of Judah today?
Windy City Ag
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AG
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
The Jews..judeans…who lived in Judah… which was named so because it was the land given to the tribe of Judah
Windy City Ag
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AG
A lot of people argue that the Jewish diaspora in Iraq was the closest thing to the true descendants of the tribe of Judah.

Judah was conquered by Babylon in 605 BC and the Babylonians, sick of the subsequent rebellions, burned Jerusalem a few decades later and engaged in mass deportations of the Judeans to what is the outskirts of modern day Baghdad.

This is another argument for the brown skinned Jesus theory.
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
But the Jews went back into Israel.. and the Jews of today can trace their lineages all the way back to the exodus. And they don't look like the people of Iraq.

So just because they spent a short time period in Iraq doesn't mean they looked like the people who live there now… and we know what they look like. Because they live in Israel now and other places. It's not a mystery.
jrico2727
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AG
Yukon Cornelius said:

The Jews..judeans…who lived in Judah… which was named so because it was the land given to the tribe of Judah
So not Israelis that live in the ancient land of the Israelites
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
Huh
Windy City Ag
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AG
Quote:

But the Jews went back into Israel.. and the Jews of today can trace their lineages all the way back to the exodus. And they don't look like the people of Iraq.

So just because they spent a short time period in Iraq doesn't mean they looked like the people who live there now… and we know what they look like. Because they live in Israel now and other places. It's not a mystery.
Short time being 2,600 years?

Yes, the Persians did eventually conquer Babylon and in doing so allowed the Jewish Diaspora to return but most historical studies point out that a sizeable contingent never went home and stayed in what is modern day Iraq, hence that community being the purest distillation of what the tribe of Judah looked like.

There is a while cottage industry dedicated to this topic but most people note that the expansion of Judaism into colder northern climates involved a lot of mixing, marriage, and reproduction with non-Jews and also the eventual genetic transformation from living in colder climates with less sunlight, hence the much more diverse range of appearances in Jews of today.

The oldest imagery of Jews from that era is from the Dura Europos Synagogue which was located just across the Iraqi border with Syria and right in the middle of old time Babylon. Here is their depiction of Samuel anointing David



Here is there depiction of Mordechai and Esther






Yukon Cornelius
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AG
So Jews who stayed within the Babylonian and Persians people for 2600 years are what the person of Jesus is supposed to look like? Jesus isn't from that group of people.

He's from the people who came out of the exile back into Judea not those who remained in Iraq.

So it stands to reason He looks like those who came out vs those who stayed. Which of those who came out we have a pretty good idea of what they looked like. Because well they still exist.
Sapper Redux
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Windy City Ag said:

Quote:

I find this similar to the "all Asian people look the same" or "all black people look the same" statements. Because the average guy looked like this, Jesus must have looked like this? There are plenty of variances inside of each race, ranging from facial feature, height and skin tone.

I have been most influenced in the argument by the 1-3rd century depictions before the Zeus inspired Byzantine image took over popular imagination.

Most all of the images were beardless.

We know enough from archaeological record of Galilee at that time to know a white European appearance was extremely unlikely. Both the Torah and the Bible discuss how Moses and Paul were considered Egyptian in their appearance.


The earliest known image of Jesus is from the 3rd century and from Syria. It depicted him looking a great deal like a well-off Roman of the era. I wouldn't put much stock in any of the images. They reflect what people thought he should look like. Discussions in the second century even suggest he was physically quite ugly.
Windy City Ag
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AG
Quote:

So Jews who stayed within the Babylonian and Persians people for 2600 years are what the person of Jesus is supposed to look like? Jesus isn't from that group of people.

He's from the people who came out of the exile back into Judea not those who remained in Iraq.

So it stands to reason He looks like those who came out vs those who stayed. Which of those who came out we have a pretty good idea of what they looked like. Because well they still exist.

Except that we have almost zero imagery of what Jews looked like then and the very little description in the Bible or the Torah.

What we do have points away from the conclusion that Jesus was a light skinned dude with a flowing beard.
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
I'm not talking about what imagery the Jews had or didn't have. I'm talking about a very small ethnic tribe in which still exist today that Jesus came from.

You're trying to use a highly mixed ethnic group over 2,500 years that Jesus DID NOT come from as some sort of evidence to the contrary of my claim.
Windy City Ag
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AG
You asked about the tribe of Judah and what their ancestors looked like.

That is the answer to your question.
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
No it's not. "A lot of people" think the Jews who mixed over 2,500 years with Persians is what the unmixed ancient Jews out of the exile looked like isn't the answer.
Windy City Ag
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AG
Quote:

No it's not. "A lot of people" think the Jews who mixed over 2,500 years with Persians is what the unmixed ancient Jews out of the exile looked like isn't the answer.

I don't even know what this means.
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
You said "a lot of people think" (as if some number of unsourced people are an authority on a subject) that ancient Jews looked like the the people who are mixed Jews and Persians over 2600 years.

Which isn't true. The Jews of Jesus time, of which Jesus is from is a group of people who trace their lineage for thousands of years without much ethnic mixing and still to this day.

So it's likely Jesus looked more like the tribe of Judah of today than a mixed group of people that Jesus didn't even come from.
Serotonin
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AG
If you are picking closest modern-day populations it would probably be Palestinian and Levantine Christians along with Mizrahi Jews.

Other lineages would have mixed too much with other groups over the past 2,000 years (Palestinian Muslims with Arabs, Ashkenazi with European groups, etc).
Windy City Ag
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AG
Quote:

The Jews of Jesus time, of which Jesus is from is a group of people who trace their lineage for thousands of years without much ethnic mixing and still to this day.
This is not true. There was tons of ethnic mixing. There are easily findable genetic studies on Jewish population that show half of the DNA identifies with middle eastern patterns while 50% or more is traceable to European populations.
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
Yes. But that's not where Jesus came from. Some of those people were called Samaritans who were not even considered Jews by the Jews during that age. Jesus' lineage is especially well documented.
Windy City Ag
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AG
Are you referencing Matthew 1:27 . . . .Abraham begot Isaac and Isaac begot Jacob and on and on and on and on and on down to Joseph the husband of Mary?

Anyway, read the Biblical anthropology work of Joan Taylor and Nossi Yagir. "What did Jesus look like?" is a fascinating read.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-a-forensic-pilgrimage-a-scholar-asks-what-did-jesus-look-like/

Quote:

The real-life Jesus, she says, likely had the short hair, trim beard and humble attire of Jewish philosophers of his time and place the first century C.E. in the Roman province of Judea.

She describes Jesus as physically unassuming, with average looks and height, and features that as a first-century Jew in Judea would have been most similar to his ethnic group's closest 21st-century parallel: contemporary Iraqi Jews. She even brings in archaeological evidence skeletons and clothing from the period.

Taylor also sought more basic information, and turned to archaeological evidence from the era.
She credited scientists such as Israeli biohistorian Yossi Nagar with researching "not only skeletal remains, but all aspects of the human body that kind of scholarship they're doing in Israel, trying to understand people's average heights, ethnic profiles, from composite skeletons in Judea and other skeletons of neighboring people in the same time period.
"According to Yossi Nagar, Jews of Second Temple times had a lot in common with Jews from the area of Iraq today," Taylor said. She said Iraqi Jews are the closest in skeletal type to what is found in first-century burials than other communities in the Jewish Diaspora.

Taylor who also examined clothing from the period assembled a composite portrait, depicting it in a drawing.

Jesus stood about five feet, five inches tall, "with olive-brown skin, brown-black hair and brown eyes," she writes. She adds it is quite likely that his hair was "shortish" and that he had "some kind of beard (though not a long one)." He plausibly wore two mantles an outer one for warmth, and an inner tallit with tzitzit and walked in sandals. She theorizes he was physically average in appearance, based on the Gospels' lack of specific descriptions.


Martin Q. Blank
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Quote:

and the Jews of today can trace their lineages all the way back to the exodus.
They can? Jerry Seinfeld knows exactly what tribe he descends from?
The Banned
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I just don't find this compelling. If I'm reading correctly, I should be able to look at modern Iraqi Jews and have an idea of what he looked like? If so, the photos I've seen on google image would suggest that this artist rendering is awful. Plenty of slim, long noses. Slim faces. Nothing at all like what is put forward.

Then she says she figures he was ugly because no one calls him super attractive? Does not being a 10 make you a 2. Couldn't Jesus be walking around at a nice 6 or 7?

Idk if the shroud is real, but I don't see the guy in that image being the next Brad Pitt or anything. Decent looking guy that wouldn't stand out either in good or bad looks. He's 5'9" ish. If the average guy is 5'5" that's not crazy. 5'9" is the average American today. Do you look at a 6'1" guy and think "holy crap he's huge!"

I'm cool with people pushing back on an overly European version of Jesus, but I personally think the artist rendering is a personal preference of the creator and not something we should consider to be credible.
Yukon Cornelius
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AG
Probably. It's either Benjamin or Judah
BrazosDog02
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Quo Vadis? said:

Be honest. Does this picture stir any emotions in you? I actually feel something when I stare into its eyes; a sense of peace and a longing, of incompleteness.

Maybe it's my brain tricking me into what I want to feel, but let me know your thoughts



Come on. You can't tell me that the AI came up with Jesus from the Shroud of Turin and ignore the fact that it looks like Jesus from The Chosen after he missed a few meals.


Shooz in Katy
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AG
I watch a lot of "near death experience" testimonials. One woman who died and met Jesus in heaven said he looked just like this painting below.

She made special reference to how his hair was kind of "spikey".

The girl who painted this also said she had personal encounters with Jesus when she was young. I tend to agree with this depiction and don't buy the full Caucasian depictions that are out there. They make no sense. The AI "Jared Leto" depiction in the above posts seems way too in-ethnic and "AI-ish" form me.

Hopefully we all one day find out! Praise Jesus!



https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/akiane-kramarik-prince-of-peace/
Leonard H. Stringfield
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Data was collected confirming that the shroud does come from the time of Jesus, but it is not of him.
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Cynic
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Netflix says Jesus was brown
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