dermdoc said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

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Do you believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son?

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Yes

I guess you are correct on the creeds. I suppose it will Jesus coming back for us to unify.

About as far east as you can go, Texarkana!

Do you think the fathers of Nicaea got it wrong? And all those other ecumenical councils which began by reciting and reaffirming that creed also go it wrong?

FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

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"Hell" is an unfortunate translation. I have always understood it to be more properly understood as the abode of the dead or the limbus of the fathers.

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Agree. And I think there is Scripture that suggests Jesus did go to the abode of the dead. It is fascinating (and troubling) how the word "hell" is translated in different translations of the Bible.

For example, the King James translators translate the same word "Sheol" in the OT half the time as "hell" and half the time as the abode of the dead or the grave. Same exact word. Makes no sense.

dermdoc said:

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FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

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"Hell" is an unfortunate translation. I have always understood it to be more properly understood as the abode of the dead or the limbus of the fathers.

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Agree. And I think there is Scripture that suggests Jesus did go to the abode of the dead. It is fascinating (and troubling) how the word "hell" is translated in different translations of the Bible.

For example, the King James translators translate the same word "Sheol" in the OT half the time as "hell" and half the time as the abode of the dead or the grave. Same exact word. Makes no sense.

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Derm, thoughts on the communion of the saints?

FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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dermdoc said:

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FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

---

"Hell" is an unfortunate translation. I have always understood it to be more properly understood as the abode of the dead or the limbus of the fathers.

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Agree. And I think there is Scripture that suggests Jesus did go to the abode of the dead. It is fascinating (and troubling) how the word "hell" is translated in different translations of the Bible.

For example, the King James translators translate the same word "Sheol" in the OT half the time as "hell" and half the time as the abode of the dead or the grave. Same exact word. Makes no sense.

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Derm, thoughts on the communion of the saints?

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I believe in it. As Hebrews says, A cloud of witnesses.

dermdoc said:

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FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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dermdoc said:

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FTACo88-FDT24dad said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

---

"Hell" is an unfortunate translation. I have always understood it to be more properly understood as the abode of the dead or the limbus of the fathers.

---

Agree. And I think there is Scripture that suggests Jesus did go to the abode of the dead. It is fascinating (and troubling) how the word "hell" is translated in different translations of the Bible.

For example, the King James translators translate the same word "Sheol" in the OT half the time as "hell" and half the time as the abode of the dead or the grave. Same exact word. Makes no sense.

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Derm, thoughts on the communion of the saints?

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I believe in it. As Hebrews says, A cloud of witnesses.

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Amen!

Thanks for sharing.

BluHorseShu said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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My point is unity is great, but it has to be based on truth. And truth is found in scripture.

To say we strive for unity is just an empty statement. It needs to be based on something.

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Truth exists outside scripture as well. Christ is the Word...he's not confined to the Bible.

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All truth is God's truth.

Maybe they should celebrate it with a Diet of Worms.

Church Unity is solely based on The Chalice and Communion.

"We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church."

Protestants talk about unity being flexible and about what it means to each other because they have to.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I don't agree with the Apostle's creed that Jesus descended into hell. And I don't agree with the Nicene creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

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Pretty strong statement for a guy that simply trolls the boards and doesn't really offer much.

Being a great theologian, contrary to the lesser theologians such as Athanasius etc. you have kept so much from us.

Please break it down for us.

I believe "Hell" is the appropriate translation, just not as specific as to "which part," he did not descend into Gehenna, but rather Limbo of The Fathers, or Sheol. I think it's more of an issue of how we have used the term "hell" over time to mean the eternal fires of Gehenna. I don't know if this is just a Catholic view or if Orthodox and some Protestants share a similar view. But I may also be playing semantics, and my apologies if so.

ETA It is possible I am misunderstanding the Church's teaching on that. If so I am open to correction and will differ to the Church in the matter.

The Cardinal makes a good point for unity in my opinion: