Stealing this topic from F16. I wanted to chime in there, but I didn't really want to get into it in that environment. Wanted to get some opinions from you all on this. In the moment, I was probably emotionally charged up and feeling good about the day in general, but after re-listening to some of it, I get pretty turned off.

There was one moment where Graham was paralleling those around Trump holding up his arms like those who did for Moses while in battle (this happens to be one of my all time favorite pictures that is painted in scripture). This seems like a complete overreach in applying sacred scripture to our broken and Godless political world we live in. They aren't trying to fight the schemes of the devil - they are fighting simply against flesh and blood and things of this world.

This country is in dire need of turning to the LORD, and that simply really wasn't the message from anyone. It was all watered down and bended to fit into a weird narrative of simply appealing to God and him making us prosperous once again.

I'll hang up and listen a bit.

Well, church attempting to influence state is nothing new (or portray the Current Ruler as God's choice-Orthodox and Catholics could probably fill in the history a lot better than I) and the current Episcopal bishop (of DC) lectured Trump this morning at the National Cathedral during prayer service over immigration and gender-changing.
Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this world and we apparently refuse to believe Him. .

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They aren't trying to fight the schemes of the devil - they are fighting simply against flesh and blood and things of this world.

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can't these be one and the same?

While I love Samaritan's Purse, I really soured on Graham after he proclaimed that Jesus wants me to get the covid shot.

Jabin said:

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Graham receives at least $750,000 in income from Samaritan's Purse. While there are many arguments justifying that amount, I am always uncomfortable seeing people getting rich off of ministry. Many of their donors are people living off of social security.

It is rare to see the head of any large ministry who is not making off like a bandit.

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I see your point but these folks work really hard at doing the most important job there is, spreading the good news of the Gospel.

We just found out yesterday where our Christmas box went--to a child in southern Sudan. Probably not too many ways for that little one to hear the Gospel.

When they don't return to that church at the next inauguration, nobody should be surprised or complain about it.

Archbishop Elpidophoros comments as to the creation of a White House office of faith yesterday are pertinent I think to this OP.

🇬🇷🇺🇸 Archbishop Elpidophoros of America presents President Trump with a Holy Cross:

"Through your leadership, you embody the values of our Christian faith and love for the Gospel. You remind me of the great Roman Emperor, Constantine the Great." pic.twitter.com/Nn5zF6jbGx

— DD Geopolitics (@DD_Geopolitics) March 24, 2025

Referencing Constantine the Great is a bit much for me, though.

nortex97 said:

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Archbishop Elpidophoros comments as to the creation of a White House office of faith yesterday are pertinent I think to this OP.

🇬🇷🇺🇸 Archbishop Elpidophoros of America presents President Trump with a Holy Cross:

"Through your leadership, you embody the values of our Christian faith and love for the Gospel. You remind me of the great Roman Emperor, Constantine the Great." pic.twitter.com/Nn5zF6jbGx

— DD Geopolitics (@DD_Geopolitics) March 24, 2025

Referencing Constantine the Great is a bit much for me, though.

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I agree NT97. Placating and praising and comparing him to Constantine??! Give me a break. I am glad there is a faith office, but the elevation of any politician to something akin to giving reverence in a Christian sense is very dangerous.

BluHorseShu said:

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nortex97 said:

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Archbishop Elpidophoros comments as to the creation of a White House office of faith yesterday are pertinent I think to this OP.

🇬🇷🇺🇸 Archbishop Elpidophoros of America presents President Trump with a Holy Cross:

"Through your leadership, you embody the values of our Christian faith and love for the Gospel. You remind me of the great Roman Emperor, Constantine the Great." pic.twitter.com/Nn5zF6jbGx

— DD Geopolitics (@DD_Geopolitics) March 24, 2025

Referencing Constantine the Great is a bit much for me, though.

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I agree NT97. Placating and praising and comparing him to Constantine??! Give me a break. I am glad there is a faith office, but the elevation of any politician to something akin to giving reverence in a Christian sense is very dangerous.

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Constantine was pretty brutal and similar to Trump in a lot of ways. He saw Christianity as a power to be reckoned with and made the political move to incorporate it into the government.

Justinian was awful and basically forced.the concept of ECT hell of Augustine into church doctrine.

Well, I know you have an issue with Augustine but it is an interesting/related cross-topic to bring up Justinian. Personally, I think he was in many ways a quite effective pontifex maximus/emperor, though I would not defend him as such in total.


IMHO (outside looking in/back), today's RCC are similarly resistant to criticisms of the modern papacy as many Orthodox/Greeks are to ancient Byzantine emperors/leaders. The actual theological differences at the time for folks like Justinian were…secondary to his pragmatic needs/analyses, again just my two cents.

None of the actual church history can be reduced really to message board reductions. Justinian is one of the most fascinating characters of his millennia, to me.

nortex97 said:

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Well, I know you have an issue with Augustine but it is an interesting/related cross-topic to bring up Justinian. Personally, I think he was in many ways a quite effective pontifex maximus/emperor, though I would not defend him as such in total.


IMHO (outside looking in/back), today's RCC are similarly resistant to criticisms of the modern papacy as many Orthodox/Greeks are to ancient Byzantine emperors/leaders. The actual theological differences at the time for folks like Justinian were…secondary to his pragmatic needs/analyses, again just my two cents.

None of the actual church history can be reduced really to message board reductions. Justinian is one of the most fascinating characters of his millennia, to me.

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Agree. I will say without Augustine being set up as "the" church father and Justinian running a council with an absent Pope for the most part, we would never have a majority of ECT adherents

It is fascinating how it all came about. I still contend it was mainly used for power purposes. Not sure Constantine or Justinian were deep into theology.

He was probably a greater theologian than most pontiffs etc (if not as well among the most egotistical/arrogant). I again think his thoughts should be taken in context though vs. the history (such as depopulation of Palestine etc).

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"They say", expounds Justinian, "that there were originally an innumerable host of minds united in contemplation and love of God. But, being subdued by satiety, their devotion cooled, and hence they became associated with bodies and names of a higher or lower nature in proportion to the degree of their falling off. Those who were least deteriorated passed into the sun, moon, and stars; a lower class into gross bodies like our own; whilst those affected with the greatest perversity coalesced with the frigid and fuliginous matter of which demons are constituted. One only remained unchanged in love and contemplation of the Deity, and that one was Christ. But all bodies are liable to perish utterly; and he, becoming at once God and man, first threw off bis body; and all bodies will ultimately do likewise, returning into unity and again becoming minds. Hence impious men and demons will at last attain to the same celestial state as the divine and saintly. Thus Christ differs in no manner from other living beings. But Pythagoras said that unity was the beginning of all things; and Plato taught similarly, and asserted that souls were sent into bodies as a punishment. Wherefore he called the body a sepulchre and a chain, as being that wherein the soul was buried and bound. And the soul of a philosopher which pollutes itself with paederasty and iniquity performs a triple circuit of chastisement in a millennium, and in the thousandth year becomes winged and takes its flight ... Therefore I exhort you, holy fathers, to examine and condemn in general synod all who think like Origen."
The next extract I draw from his lengthy exposition of the principles of Catholicism with a view to the condemnation of the Three Chapters. In this document he relies mainly on the interpretation of Scripture by Athanasius, Cyril of Alexandria, Basil the Great, Gregory Nazianzen, and Gregory of Nyssa :
"... And when we say that Christ is God, we do net deny him to be man; and when we say that he is man we do not deny him to be God. For should he be only God, how should he suffer, be crucified, and die? For such is alien to God. Wherefore when we say that Christ is composed of both natures, divine and human, we introduce no confusion in the union, but in the two natures we confess Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Word. When we say that there is a composition, we must allow there to be parts in the whole, and the whole to consist in its parts. The divine nature is not transmuted into the human, nor the human into the divine. Rather is it to be understood that, each nature abiding within its own limits and faculties, a union has been made according to the substance. The union according to the substance signifies that God the Word, that is, one substance of the three substances of the Deity, was not united to a previously formed human body, but created for Himself in the womb of the Holy Virgin from her substance the living flesh, which is human nature."
He then drew up a number of canons against the Three Chapters and heretics generally, to which he appended a diffuse argument to prove the necessity for their being anathematized. These canons are virtually the same as the fourteen adopted by the Fifth Ecumenical Council.

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Though he was quite brutal, I think one must also conclude he took his faith very seriously.

" Though he was quite brutal, I think one must also conclude he took his faith very seriously."

I don't know if the same can be said of the President? At least the faith part.

PabloSerna said:

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" Though he was quite brutal, I think one must also conclude he took his faith very seriously."

I don't know if the same can be said of the President? At least the faith part.

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Not at all, I think like most of us, his faith has evolved over the years. Particularly after the Butler incident, I think his actions show a substantial amount of serious reflection. I know he is polarizing but his words about the evil doers in this country, the faith office, prayers etc. really are not indicative of an unserious person as to faith.

Trump vows to reject secularism and bring God back to America at the National Prayer Breakfast:

“Let’s bring religion back. Let’s bring God back into our lives.”

Christ is King. ✝️ pic.twitter.com/oGiKSTJ7O0

— Anna Lulis (@annamlulis) February 6, 2025

Trump just had Faith Leaders pray over him in the Oval Office 🙏 pic.twitter.com/5gUflAqBUp

— Anna Lulis (@annamlulis) March 19, 2025

President Trump asked to be prayed over. Beautiful! 🇺🇸

Video: Angela Halili pic.twitter.com/ez77rIvL4p

— Hananya Naftali (@HananyaNaftali) January 20, 2025

That he has been wildly castigated in religious terms even as Satan himself for many years in various outlets (and even in church!) has really led many to just lose objective thought/analysis on their own, imho. He also gets very little credit for being open to having a multi-faith family. And no, I don't consider him some sort of spiritual/divine leader a la Constantine etc.

nortex97 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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" Though he was quite brutal, I think one must also conclude he took his faith very seriously."

I don't know if the same can be said of the President? At least the faith part.

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Not at all, I think like most of us, his faith has evolved over the years. Particularly after the Butler incident, I think his actions show a substantial amount of serious reflection. I know he is polarizing but his words about the evil doers in this country, the faith office, prayers etc. really are not indicative of an unserious person as to faith.

Trump vows to reject secularism and bring God back to America at the National Prayer Breakfast:

“Let’s bring religion back. Let’s bring God back into our lives.”

Christ is King. ✝️ pic.twitter.com/oGiKSTJ7O0

— Anna Lulis (@annamlulis) February 6, 2025

Trump just had Faith Leaders pray over him in the Oval Office 🙏 pic.twitter.com/5gUflAqBUp

— Anna Lulis (@annamlulis) March 19, 2025

President Trump asked to be prayed over. Beautiful! 🇺🇸

Video: Angela Halili pic.twitter.com/ez77rIvL4p

— Hananya Naftali (@HananyaNaftali) January 20, 2025

That he has been wildly castigated in religious terms even as Satan himself for many years in various outlets (and even in church!) has really led many to just lose objective thought/analysis on their own, imho. He also gets very little credit for being open to having a multi-faith family. And no, I don't consider him some sort of spiritual/divine leader a la Constantine etc.

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Great post.