Televised military actions and killing

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bigtruckguy3500
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11:15p, 10/28/25
Philosophical/ethical/moral question. What do you all think about drone footage of the military killing people being played on TV? I keep seeing this footage of the Venezuelan drug boats, and in the past we've seen footage of bombs being dropped on buildings and such in various parts of the world, sometimes even a group of people just vanishing in an explosion.

Maybe I'm becoming more of a hippie as I get older, but why is it ok/acceptable to televise these peoples' deaths? I get it, there's reasonably high likelihood that they are bad guys that do bad things. And it's not like we're actually seeing blood and body parts most of the time. But we're still getting accustomed to watching people get killed. We're desensitizing the population towards death. And you can argue that video games and movies have done plenty of that, but these are actual people dying. Does that translate to less compassion in our lives towards others?

Anyways, open to everyone's thoughts and whatever discussion arises.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 5:35a, 10/29/25
I'm more concerned about the complete lack of oversight or hint of actionable intelligence suggesting these are in any way drug boats and that the United States military is needed to deal with the issue if it does exist. Public execution is nothing new, though I would argue it has always degraded the worth of the person.
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powerbelly
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8:22a, 10/29/25
AG
I don't care for it and try to avoid it, but I do think there is some value to the media showing what we are doing, especially as it drifts over into grey areas.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 8:58a, 10/29/25
Quote:
Maybe I'm becoming more of a hippie as I get older, but why is it ok/acceptable to televise these peoples' deaths?

The military today does it to deter the behavior. In the past they did it for the same reason plus to humiliate the enemy and demonstrate divine favor.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:01a, 10/29/25
Sapper Redux said:
I'm more concerned about the complete lack of oversight or hint of actionable intelligence suggesting these are in any way drug boats and that the United States military is needed to deal with the issue if it does exist.

I'm sure this is being done with the authorization of the President. Privates and corporals aren't out there shooting civilians with impunity.
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Rocag
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:23a, 10/29/25
AG
Sapper Redux said:
I'm more concerned about the complete lack of oversight or hint of actionable intelligence suggesting these are in any way drug boats and that the United States military is needed to deal with the issue if it does exist. Public execution is nothing new, though I would argue it has always degraded the worth of the person.

These people are such dangerous criminals that if they do survive the bombings our government just lets them go with no further action taken. Clearly an imminent threat to our country.

I think videos like that are desensitizing, and maybe that's the point. You're not supposed to see these people as actual human beings. You're not supposed to ask whether they're also entitled to those so-called inalienable rights our country allegedly believes in. There's no death penalty in this country for drug smuggling, I fail to see why there should be for people not within our country's borders.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 11:28a, 10/29/25
Martin Q. Blank said:
Sapper Redux said:
I'm more concerned about the complete lack of oversight or hint of actionable intelligence suggesting these are in any way drug boats and that the United States military is needed to deal with the issue if it does exist.

I'm sure this is being done with the authorization of the President. Privates and corporals aren't out there shooting civilians with impunity.


Cool. I trust Privates and Corporals more than the current President.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 1:01p, 10/29/25
Sapper Redux said:
I'm more concerned about the complete lack of oversight or hint of actionable intelligence suggesting these are in any way drug boats and that the United States military is needed to deal with the issue if it does exist. Public execution is nothing new, though I would argue it has always degraded the worth of the person.

Yes, I agree, it is a bit concerning to use the military in this capacity. As well as label anyone we want as a terrorist to justify killing them without any kind of due process. But, I also figured discussing that might be a bit more controversial and political for the R&P forum - or that the right leaning tendencies of TexAgs would just call me a liberal and ignore the post.

Martin Q. Blank said:

The military today does it to deter the behavior. In the past they did it for the same reason plus to humiliate the enemy and demonstrate divine favor.

I do get that. I guess I'm wondering if it's right to be showcasing deaths like this - even if criminals. Or maybe if it deters the behavior might eventually lead to fewer deaths - although I suspect the cartels don't need it televised to know what happens. Like I wonder what people would feel if they had to look at images of the recovered bodies, or watch families cry over the remains of their loved ones. Or what if all the footage of Americans killed overseas was broadcast over and over - would we view it in the same way? What would we think of those governments or news agencies that kept showing it?

Also, what is the difference between blowing up a boat you assume has drugs and killing everyone on board, and interdicting the boat and executing everyone on board? I wonder if pilots have less PTSD from killing people with a bomb than someone having to actually look at them and shoot.

To the other point made, does desensitizing us to what may be considered extra-judicial killings help open the door for more controversial military action in the future (not trying to get political here)?

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Rocag
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 1:50p, 10/29/25
AG
If the argument is that publicly killing drug smugglers and dealers is an effective deterrent to such behavior then why don't American cops and federal agents not just walk down the streets in America shooting and killing anyone they believe are involved in the drug trade? Would that be wrong for some reason?
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to Rocag • 3:02p, 10/29/25
Good question. I think some would see no problem with that. Some would see no problem with it if they aren't US citizens (argument being due process/constitution only applies to US citizens). Some would be completely against such things simply because they deserve due process. And others would be against it in general, regardless of due process or not.
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Rocag
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 4:30p, 10/29/25
AG
You know not too long ago we had a long thread on this board about where rights came from. Most of the Christians and conservatives seemed to argue that we have rights because they were given to us by God. I guess now I'm just left wondering why God didn't bother to hand out rights to people who weren't American citizens. Seems mighty rude of him.
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Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 5:31p, 10/29/25
AG
Sapper Redux said:
Martin Q. Blank said:
Sapper Redux said:
I'm more concerned about the complete lack of oversight or hint of actionable intelligence suggesting these are in any way drug boats and that the United States military is needed to deal with the issue if it does exist.

I'm sure this is being done with the authorization of the President. Privates and corporals aren't out there shooting civilians with impunity.


Cool. I trust Privates and Corporals more than the current President.


Yeah let's give the guys buying dodge chargers at 26% interest rate the keys to the kingdom.

In Hoc Signo Vinces
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Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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5:35p, 10/29/25
AG
But back to the topic.

I think the wholesale slaughter of unborn children desensitized this nation.

Islamic ****s flying planes into our buildings and then blowing up Soldiers and Marines also did a pretty good job.

I could give a **** what happens to paco bringing drugs into this country.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy • 9:12p, 10/29/25
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:
But back to the topic.

I think the wholesale slaughter of unborn children desensitized this nation.

Islamic ****s flying planes into our buildings and then blowing up Soldiers and Marines also did a pretty good job.

I could give a **** what happens to paco bringing drugs into this country.


Can you provide any evidence this is what they were doing? Because were told this without any evidence. And the survivors aren't being arrested and held by us as prisoners or war or criminals. They're being returned to their home countries.
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Rocag
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:48p, 10/29/25
AG
I get the feeling most MAGAs don't give a **** what happens to Paco when he's just out fishing either.
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schmendeler
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10:41p, 10/29/25
AG
I reckon the killing is more problematic than showing the killing
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TexasAggie73
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11:48p, 10/29/25
AG
If someone is caught bringing drugs into the US on the boarder, they are arrested and given a trial. Based on what Trump is doing to the "accused" drug runners and killing them without a trial. Should the drug runners on the boarder that are caught be treated the same?
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to TexasAggie73 • 7:13a, 10/30/25
AG
TexasAggie73 said:
If someone is caught bringing drugs into the US on the boarder, they are arrested and given a trial. Based on what Trump is doing to the "accused" drug runners and killing them without a trial. Should the drug runners on the boarder that are caught be treated the same?


Someone bringing drugs across the border with the intent to sell is committing a felony. A felony is a serious crime and felons should be held accountable for their actions.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 7:57a, 10/30/25
Sapper Redux said:
Martin Q. Blank said:
Sapper Redux said:
I'm more concerned about the complete lack of oversight or hint of actionable intelligence suggesting these are in any way drug boats and that the United States military is needed to deal with the issue if it does exist.

I'm sure this is being done with the authorization of the President. Privates and corporals aren't out there shooting civilians with impunity.

Cool. I trust Privates and Corporals more than the current President.

Well they're the ones actually pressing the button so we're good.
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Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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8:03a, 10/30/25
AG
Philosophical/ethical/moral question.

Did anyone of you come on here and discuss this when 4 US citizens were not given due process and blown the **** up by a drone? Oh history is fun and also facts and numbers.

But but but.... orange man bad.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
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schmendeler
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In reply to Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy • 8:28a, 10/30/25
AG
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:
Philosophical/ethical/moral question.

Did anyone of you come on here and discuss this when 4 US citizens were not given due process and blown the **** up by a drone? Oh history is fun and also facts and numbers.

But but but.... orange man bad.


You have forum 16 brain.
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy • 8:29a, 10/30/25
AG
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:
Philosophical/ethical/moral question.

Did anyone of you come on here and discuss this when 4 US citizens were not given due process and blown the **** up by a drone? Oh history is fun and also facts and numbers.

But but but.... orange man bad.


No, they are both bad. And the next ones will be bad also as long as we resign ourselves to only hold 'the other side accountable'.
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Rocag
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In reply to Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy • 8:34a, 10/30/25
AG
I've opposed US drone policy since the Obama years, but you need to realize there have been thousands of drone strikes since that time with thousands of civilian casualties resulting from them. Will any one specific event attract much attention? Probably not unless the number of deaths is unusually high. Killing American citizens is certainly bad, but I also happen to oppose the killing of non-American civilians too.

On this topic, yes orange man is bad. But he's far from alone on that. Obama was bad, too. That being said, I think there's a much stronger argument that the leaders of a terrorist group actively involved in an armed conflict against the US military is a more valid target than a boat full of people who might or might not be smuggling drugs.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to TexasAggie73 • 8:35a, 10/30/25
TexasAggie73 said:
If someone is caught bringing drugs into the US on the boarder, they are arrested and given a trial. Based on what Trump is doing to the "accused" drug runners and killing them without a trial. Should the drug runners on the boarder that are caught be treated the same?

1. No, if they are being treated as a military combatant, they would be a POW. However, I am personally sympathetic to Singapore's approach to drug dealers - execution. Somehow Singapore doesn't have a drug problem.
2. There's no "arresting and giving a trial" because the boats are too fast. The Coast Guard can't intercept them. Blowing them up deters them from bringing the drugs in by sea so that we can catch them at the boarder border and try them.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 10:06a, 10/30/25
Quote:
I am personally sympathetic to Singapore's approach to drug dealers - execution. Somehow Singapore doesn't have a drug problem.


I'm sure no innocent person has ever been murdered by the state in Singapore.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy • 1:11p, 10/30/25
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:
Philosophical/ethical/moral question.

Did anyone of you come on here and discuss this when 4 US citizens were not given due process and blown the **** up by a drone? Oh history is fun and also facts and numbers.

But but but.... orange man bad.

Yeah, I didn't really want this to get political, but I suppose that's impossible today.

I guess when this arguement comes up, my question is was what happened under Obama the right thing? If so then where's the limit on killing people (especially US citizens) without due process? If not, then is it ok to kill people without due process just because they're no citizens? If yes, then under any conditions without any proof? If not, then where do we set the limits?

Assuming it is hypocritical to be against these killings and not against what Obama did (though one is continuing to happen, and one happened before anyone knew about it), is it right to take the opposite stance simply because it is the "other side"?
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 1:45p, 10/30/25
Sapper Redux said:
Quote:
I am personally sympathetic to Singapore's approach to drug dealers - execution. Somehow Singapore doesn't have a drug problem.


I'm sure no innocent person has ever been murdered by the state in Singapore.

Can't argue with the results though.
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Pro Sandy
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 3:12p, 10/30/25
AG
But we can with the means. We can value human life more than a drug dealer values it.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/09/singapore-death-penalty-execution-malaysia-pannir-selvam-pranthaman/

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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 3:25p, 10/30/25
AG
Martin Q. Blank said:
Sapper Redux said:
Quote:
I am personally sympathetic to Singapore's approach to drug dealers - execution. Somehow Singapore doesn't have a drug problem.


I'm sure no innocent person has ever been murdered by the state in Singapore.

Can't argue with the results though.


One of the benefits of more authoritarian countries and having no accountability. Singapore is affectively a one party country with limited rights, legal prosecution against unfavorable speech, state run media, restrictions against outside media and online restrictions, heavier censorship, and laws like their Internal Security Act that permit them to detain individuals indefinitely without trial if the authorities seem them as a 'threat'.

Singapore isn't all out authoritarian, but its certainly much further in that direction than we are. Sure, you get the result of less drugs and perhaps more social stability, but it isn't without consequence.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 7:28p, 10/30/25
Martin Q. Blank said:
Sapper Redux said:
Quote:
I am personally sympathetic to Singapore's approach to drug dealers - execution. Somehow Singapore doesn't have a drug problem.


I'm sure no innocent person has ever been murdered by the state in Singapore.

Can't argue with the results though.


Deist Ben Franklin once said, "That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape, than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long & generally approv'd…"

Christian Martin Q. Blank is cool with innocent people getting murdered by the state. But please lecture me again on how Christianity is the only basis for good and absolute morality.
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