https://vozcatolica.com/batalla-cultural/record-de-conversiones-en-ee-uu-los-numeros-mas-altos-en-20-anos/

I have noticed Sunday Mass and daily Mass becoming more crowded lately...

What do you think the "COVID-Woke Culture nexus" means?

No, but I can tell you that NY Day Mass at St. Matthew's at noon today was overflowing (1500 + seats).

Thaddeus73 said:

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No, but I can tell you that NY Day Mass at St. Matthew's at noon today was overflowing (1500 + seats).

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Well that settles it

If your referring to SA, it was packed at 6 as well.

I think your observation may also have quite a lot to do with Fr Eric Ritter being your pastor. He had the same effect at St Dominic, OLPH, and St Luke before he arrived there. Phenomenal priest. Hadn't found one like Fr Wilhelm and now Bishop Sis (my St Mary's days) until we stumbled on to him.

How packed were protestant churches on 1 January?

Thaddeus73 said:

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How packed were protestant churches on 1 January?

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Why do you ask?

For comparison.

Thaddeus73 said:

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No, but I can tell you that NY Day Mass at St. Matthew's at noon today was overflowing (1500 + seats).

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Lot of confessions to be made after the holidays. They'll be back for Ash Wednesday to look impressive at work.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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No, but I can tell you that NY Day Mass at St. Matthew's at noon today was overflowing (1500 + seats).

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Lot of confessions to be made after the holidays. They'll be back for Ash Wednesday to look impressive at work.

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Way beyond the pale.

Hey I had a winky face

10andBOUNCE said:

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Hey I had a winky face

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Fair enough. I missed it the first time.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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No, but I can tell you that NY Day Mass at St. Matthew's at noon today was overflowing (1500 + seats).

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Lot of confessions to be made after the holidays. They'll be back for Ash Wednesday to look impressive at work.

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I know you jest, but there's a lot of truth in this joke.

10andBOUNCE said:

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There are plenty of Catholic and Protestant jokes to go around and they all carry some truth to them!

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Yes. I tend to call Catholics that show up on Christmas and Easter only as 2%ers ('cause I'm an Ag) even though the math doesn't work out... 2x a year, though.. so. Others call them Chreasters. Ash Wednesday is another HUGE day for church attendance. Common practice I've noticed is that a ton of people show up to Mass, but leave directly after distribution of ashes. And Ash Wednesday is not even a day Catholics consider an obligatory day. I too have speculated that some are there to get "evidence" that they went to church. Yeah... if more of my coreligionists were more devoted. Guess it's time to get to work on that.

The sad thing is that they are missing out on the joys of Christian fellowship.

747Ag said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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There are plenty of Catholic and Protestant jokes to go around and they all carry some truth to them!

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Yes. I tend to call Catholics that show up on Christmas and Easter only as 2%ers ('cause I'm an Ag) even though the math doesn't work out... 2x a year, though.. so. Others call them Chreasters. Ash Wednesday is another HUGE day for church attendance. Common practice I've noticed is that a ton of people show up to Mass, but leave directly after distribution of ashes. And Ash Wednesday is not even a day Catholics consider an obligatory day. I too have speculated that some are there to get "evidence" that they went to church. Yeah... if more of my coreligionists were more devoted. Guess it's time to get to work on that.

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"Easter Eggs" and "Christmas Trees"

But I like "2%ers" better and shall start utilizing it

St. Matts here in SA has 4 daily weekday masses - 6 AM, 8:15 AM, 12:05 PM, and 6:00 PM. They are usually 30 to 40 percent of capacity (1500 max). I have been going there since 1983, and it's truly a blessing to be at a church that worships Almighty God not only daily, but 4X per day.

Point of order, if baptism records exploding won't do it for you, what data would satisfy you?

I do actually agree with you here though. The general data shows that secularism is winning hands down in american society. People are leaving churches.

But within Christianity, especially parts of the country that are heavily evangelical, there are obvious trends of exploding church membership among high liturgical churches. A resorting of protestants to higher liturgical churches.

COVID opened a can of worms that revealed:
A) How churches view their own sacraments (i.e we can shut church down)
B) How churches view their own authority
C) How churches view their own relationship to death

And all of that has lead a percentage of believers to think about church authority, sacramental power, and what even is church doing on a Sunday. Questions that can only attempted to be answered by churches that have been around for a long long time. Or people got used to not going to church and they want their sunday morning back. So there is clearly a fork in the road- did COVID make you more devout or less? The data says Yes."

The explosion is very uneven though. Even within orthodoxy we're seeing winners and losers. If an orthodox church isn't doing services in english and welcoming american demographics its losing members still and will continue to shrink.

But in general, the archdiocese came out and said they need to prepare an army of deacons and priests to be able to grow with the convert surge. And no priest are firing back with pew research articles going 'nuh uh'.

Also, the explosion is mostly happening with 30 somethings and under. Groups that are loathe to participate in research surveys. Your cable news watching boomer that decided this is the year they've had it with religion is happy to pick up the phone and assert yet another boomer opinion at some researcher.

Having seen the same thing for years (overflowing crowds at Ash Wednesday), I asked the priest what he thought and think there may be something to it. He said that many people associate the ashes with their mortality. For that one day, they want to "get right" with God even without the Eucharist.

I'm sure God will take that and build upon it. We should be happy for them.

I was most struck by this in my old Pflugerville parish... Mass was standing room only and overflowing. After ashes, church was 60-75% full.

one MEEN Ag said:

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I do actually agree with you here though. The general data shows that secularism is winning hands down in american society. People are leaving churches.

But within Christianity, especially parts of the country that are heavily evangelical, there are obvious trends of exploding church membership among high liturgical churches. A resorting of protestants to higher liturgical churches.


The explosion is very uneven though. Even within orthodoxy we're seeing winners and losers. If an orthodox church isn't doing services in english and welcoming american demographics its losing members still and will continue to shrink.

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Don't disagree with any of that. I would say that the winners and losers are a product of whether or not the pastor "lights a fire" for you:



Fr Leo makes lots of good points. The point that he makes that I think is critical (and I think it is what creates to draw towards Catholic and Orthodox teachings) is that people are looking for the sacred and the meaningful. When churches start putting on performances to be relevant to a secular world, they become as irrelevant as the secular world. You go before a stage to be entertained. You go before an altar to worship. The push should be to the divine, the sacred. The churches that do that best will be the winners with a congression set on fire for Christ.

It's always amazed me that it is SRO when the church hands out ashes once a year, but only pleasantly full when we hand out the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ 365 times a year...

Thanks for posting the video as it helps me understand another side of the mission.

I maintain that there is no monopoly on the mission. What works for some may not work for others. However the mission remains to bring the good news to people.

What is interesting to me at least after hearing Fr. Leo speak is what he believes is the proper response to a flock that is leaving the church at an alarming rate. He cites between 70-85% of confirmed Catholics leave the faith once they become adults. This is a different metric than newly baptized which are typically children. I would tend to agree with those numbers if I look at just my own family. For us it's more like 50% that grow up and stop attending church on a weekly basis. My adult kids are in their 20s-30s. Unless it's Ash Wednesday, Christmas, or Easter they are not regulars. We had a full pew this past Christmas as they have honored mom and dad to attend mass at the school they attended for 10+ years as children. It is actually something they look forward to thankfully.

That said, I would have to agree more with what Vatican II has identified as the prime focus for the "Church in the World" through its Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes, a landmark document calling for the Church to engage in dialogue with modern society, interpret "signs of the times," and apply Christian faith to contemporary issues like human dignity, social justice, peace, and cultural development, shifting from an inward-looking stance to an outward-facing mission to serve humanity's joys and anxieties.

My kids attended a gothic cathedral, full of all the sacred art, vestments, music, and visuals one can imagine. They benefited from religious instruction both at school and at home. No doubt it had an effect on them as children and young adults. All but one is confirmed. All but one was active with the youth ministry attending retreats, DCYC youth days, and more.

If I am being honest, what stuck with them the most was our weekly interaction with the homeless that are all around the Cathedral in downtown Austin. They would give out of their own money and food to these people on their own. Even now, they care about the less fortunate and marginalized which we as parents tried to model charity those many years ago.

I believe that what draws some people into the church is different than what is needed to transform their hearts to keep them close to God.

Protestants don't attend church on New Years. Heck they don't even have services on Christmas hardly