Some musings on divorce and abortion

827 Views | 11 Replies | Last: 17 hrs ago by Severian the Torturer
Severian the Torturer
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This seems like the right board for it, as it's philosophical in question and verging on religious so I wanted to talk about this a bit. I have a family member going through a divorce and it's the first one in our family. The divorce seems like it it could be considered "warranted" by modern societal standards, but viewing it as a covenant, there literally are no acceptable standards.

Without getting too deeply religious, from a practical side, I don't understand how people with children can get divorced. This is largely anecdotal, but I have met so many people who are now adults, well into their 40's and 50's who still have major issues and hold ups over their parents divorce when they were young.

My own situation, I know that my family member would "die for their children" but they won't die to self and humble themselves enough to save their children a largely increased risk of adverse impact?

To liken this to abortion, I don't know how I could handle having parents who are pro-abortion. I would always think "yes you didn't abort me, but it seems to me that you admit there are certain conditions that exist where you would have rather aborted me in utero given your support for just that"

The same with divorce, as a child, how do you know that your parents will love you forever, when they've promised the same thing to their spouse, and broke that promise?

swimmerbabe11
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Child of divorce here. I learned plenty from my parents divorce and I understand it a lot better now than I did as a child, but I dont and never have expected them to do it on "my behalf". It would have been nice if they could have solved their issues and found help and been happy together, but they were not a good example of a loving Christian marriage. I wish they could have fixed that for their own sakes.

In fact, some sacrifices were made on my behalf that I deeply wish they would have been more "selfish" to better take care of their own happiness and future.
BonfireNerd04
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Quote:

To liken this to abortion, I don't know how I could handle having parents who are pro-abortion. I would always think "yes you didn't abort me, but it seems to me that you admit there are certain conditions that exist where you would have rather aborted me in utero given your support for just that"

A girl in my Public Speaking class in High School had had two older siblings aborted. She was going to be #3, but this time her parents had a change of heart.

She was very much pro-life.
PabloSerna
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AG
For me, marriage comes down to total self giving, not saving anything for yourself. Not everyone is ready for that or maybe when they did get married, held something back?

Abortion exists when man thinks his dominion over nature is absolute. As a religious person, I believe that God creates and we are stewards.
dermdoc
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AG
Both suck and are usually based on selfishness.
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T dizl televizl
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AG
I'll throw in my story for what it's worth.

My parents got divorced when I was a kid maybe around 12 or so.

I always told myself I'd never get divorced because of how bad it turned out for everyone.

I got married at 28 and within 2.5 years was divorced as my then wife was running around with a married man and wouldn't stop even after I figured it out.

Now we didn't have kids so I know it's different but I would've been in a mental asylum if I couldn't have gotten out of that relationship. Marriage takes two people to work and if one adamantly doesn't want it to work there's not much you can do.

I'm remarried now and we just had our first kid. I will say that when I look at that little sucker I can't imagine ever getting divorced and accepting that I'm not going to get to see him as much. That being said, I do know that there is evil in this world and if one of the spouses wants out they usually act in a way that will make that happen.
dermdoc
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AG
T dizl televizl said:

I'll throw in my story for what it's worth.

My parents got divorced when I was a kid maybe around 12 or so.

I always told myself I'd never get divorced because of how bad it turned out for everyone.

I got married at 28 and within 2.5 years was divorced as my then wife was running around with a married man and wouldn't stop even after I figured it out.

Now we didn't have kids so I know it's different but I would've been in a mental asylum if I couldn't have gotten out of that relationship. Marriage takes two people to work and if one adamantly doesn't want it to work there's not much you can do.

I'm remarried now and we just had our first kid. I will say that when I look at that little sucker I can't imagine ever getting divorced and accepting that I'm not going to get to see him as much. That being said, I do know that there is evil in this world and if one of the spouses wants out they usually act in a way that will make that happen.


Great to hear. And I meant with divorce at least one party is selfish. It was not you.
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T dizl televizl
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AG
Thanks. And agreed.
AGC
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AG
swimmerbabe11 said:

Child of divorce here. I learned plenty from my parents divorce and I understand it a lot better now than I did as a child, but I dont and never have expected them to do it on "my behalf". It would have been nice if they could have solved their issues and found help and been happy together, but they were not a good example of a loving Christian marriage. I wish they could have fixed that for their own sakes.

In fact, some sacrifices were made on my behalf that I deeply wish they would have been more "selfish" to better take care of their own happiness and future.


I know a therapist that says you should absolutely stay together for the kids, but since you're doing that, you should work on yourselves too. The kids will be better off but don't miss the opportunity to work on yourselves. It should be both every single time.

Most people don't want to work on themselves, though. After the first few years your marriage patterns are set. You have the spouse you made. So 15-20 years in you're unhappy about a course you charted a long time ago and didn't change.

It takes a lot of humility to trace back hurt through the years for both parties. Men want to apologize, change, and move on, but most women I know have different concepts of sin entirely (I've heard some say they can't think of a sin they've committed against their spouse in a decade!!). What I've seen is that women want men to own every feeling of grief they have after a sin is committed, with no end. The path back for men who screw up is very hard because of that. Humility is in short supply for men (I don't think as a culture we truly recognize how prideful we are in every area), but the bar can be set really high and sabotage the efforts.
Rocag
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AG
The post seems to imply that the best thing for children is always for the parents to remain married and frankly I do not believe this is universally true. The easy example is in cases in which some kind of abuse exists, but even absent that there are plenty of situations in which divorce offers those children a healthier and more stable environment in which to grow.
The Banned
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Rocag said:

The post seems to imply that the best thing for children is always for the parents to remain married and frankly I do not believe this is universally true. The easy example is in cases in which some kind of abuse exists, but even absent that there are plenty of situations in which divorce offers those children a healthier and more stable environment in which to grow.

This considers only two options. Option 1: have angry parents fighting all the time. Option 2: Divorce. My parents chose option 2 when I was a young child. I am in a very healthy marriage right now, and I can say with certainty that there is an option 3 that my parents did not choose because it actually requires effort instead of just throwing in the towel and accepting divorce or ****ty marriage. And yes, despite my happy marriage, their divorce did effect me in ways I was not able to process until much later in life and I think has played a major role in the eventual divorces my brothers had.

Option 3: choose to work on your marriage and yourselves. Put the marriage and family above yourself. If there is something that you need to be happy in the marriage, calmly make that clear to your spouse. If they fall back into old patterns, calmly bring it up again and again until you work through it. Most people never ask, expecting their spouse to read their minds, or give up after asking once or twice. What does it matter if you have to remind them 100 times? is it really worth destroying your family because you have to humble yourself to ask? For many people that answer is yes, sadly.

Unless you've picked someone who just truly sucks (like T dizl shared) then you should both have the maturity to make this work. If you choose not to, you are incredibly selfish. If you have the type of wife T Dizl shared, then I'd say you never really had a wife to begin with because they duped you into believing you ever had a shot of making it work.
Severian the Torturer
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The Banned said:

Rocag said:

The post seems to imply that the best thing for children is always for the parents to remain married and frankly I do not believe this is universally true. The easy example is in cases in which some kind of abuse exists, but even absent that there are plenty of situations in which divorce offers those children a healthier and more stable environment in which to grow.

This considers only two options. Option 1: have angry parents fighting all the time. Option 2: Divorce. My parents chose option 2 when I was a young child. I am in a very healthy marriage right now, and I can say with certainty that there is an option 3 that my parents did not choose because it actually requires effort instead of just throwing in the towel and accepting divorce or ****ty marriage. And yes, despite my happy marriage, their divorce did effect me in ways I was not able to process until much later in life and I think has played a major role in the eventual divorces my brothers had.

Option 3: choose to work on your marriage and yourselves. Put the marriage and family above yourself. If there is something that you need to be happy in the marriage, calmly make that clear to your spouse. If they fall back into old patterns, calmly bring it up again and again until you work through it. Most people never ask, expecting their spouse to read their minds, or give up after asking once or twice. What does it matter if you have to remind them 100 times? is it really worth destroying your family because you have to humble yourself to ask? For many people that answer is yes, sadly.

Unless you've picked someone who just truly sucks (like T dizl shared) then you should both have the maturity to make this work. If you choose not to, you are incredibly selfish. If you have the type of wife T Dizl shared, then I'd say you never really had a wife to begin with because they duped you into believing you ever had a shot of making it work.

This is an absolutely great post. As a man is very difficult to say "if my wife cheats on me I am still married", but that's what I signed up for and vice versa. My daughters are always my daughters no matter what they do, there is nothing that they can do that will make me no longer their father. The same is true for my wife, if she hits me; I'm married to her, if she drains our bank account, I'm married to her; if she sleeps with 100 people, I'm married to her.

Now that doesn't mean that we'll stay in the same house if there's a danger to the kids, it doesn't mean that it won't break my heart, but I'm still married regardless and my thought process is always going to be "what can I do to help fix this".

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