And issue a stern reminder that the apostolic church is the shepherd of all Christians, and the Zionist heresy infecting evangelicalism damages the millennia old Church in the Holy Land.
Jerusalem Patriarchs denounce Christian Zionism
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Last: 2 days ago by Zobel
Jaydoug
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What does this mean?
I had an idea, but looked it up for clarification.
Basically, support of the modern "state" of Israel?
Condemnation of western ideology in the ME?
Military/political influence of US in the ME?
It's not clear to me.
And the timing…is this about Iran?
Why make a proclamation now?
I had an idea, but looked it up for clarification.
Basically, support of the modern "state" of Israel?
Condemnation of western ideology in the ME?
Military/political influence of US in the ME?
It's not clear to me.
And the timing…is this about Iran?
Why make a proclamation now?
GasPasser97 said:
What does this mean?
I had an idea, but looked it up for clarification.
Basically, support of the modern "state" of Israel?
Condemnation of western ideology in the ME?
Military/political influence of US in the ME?
It's not clear to me.
And the timing…is this about Iran?
Why make a proclamation now?
Well, they are condemning Christian Zionists (Christians who support Israel) for going outside the church for authority, and saying their "activities" endanger Christians in the ME
Basically saying shut up and stay out of it
GasPasser97 said:
What does this mean?
I had an idea, but looked it up for clarification.
Basically, support of the modern "state" of Israel?
Condemnation of western ideology in the ME?
Military/political influence of US in the ME?
It's not clear to me.
And the timing…is this about Iran?
Why make a proclamation now?
Supporting Israel enables them to expand their settlement into the West Bank which affects Palestinian Christians. I highly doubt any evangelical in the U.S. cares what the "Patriarchs and Heads of the Churches in Jerusalem" have to say about it. They admit in their letter that they're outside their jurisdiction anyway.
GasPasser97 said:
What does this mean?
I had an idea, but looked it up for clarification.
Basically, support of the modern "state" of Israel?
Condemnation of western ideology in the ME?
Military/political influence of US in the ME?
It's not clear to me.
And the timing…is this about Iran?
Why make a proclamation now?
Huckabee, Cruz and Co are fully in lockstop with an Israeli single state solution, both have made comments recently that echo those sentiments, and have tied them into the idea that the Biblical Israel is the nation-state named as such, and needs to be defended lest we be cursed.
The Patriarchs of Jersualem's flocks are obviously made up of non-jews, many of whom are Arab. You can look at the war with Gaza and see many instances of Churches and Christians coming under attack from Israeli forces.
They definitely care what the EP has to say.Martin Q. Blank said:GasPasser97 said:
What does this mean?
I had an idea, but looked it up for clarification.
Basically, support of the modern "state" of Israel?
Condemnation of western ideology in the ME?
Military/political influence of US in the ME?
It's not clear to me.
And the timing…is this about Iran?
Why make a proclamation now?
Supporting Israel enables them to expand their settlement into the West Bank which affects Palestinian Christians. I highly doubt any evangelical in the U.S. cares what the "Patriarchs and Heads of the Churches in Jerusalem" have to say about it. They admit in their letter that they're outside their jurisdiction anyway.
Michael Knowles take on the matter:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/why-christian-zionism-is-not-traditional-christianity
Asaaand patient zero responds
In response to the statement of non-evangelical churches in Israel, I issued the following. I hope you will read prayerfully.
— Ambassador Mike Huckabee (@GovMikeHuckabee) January 20, 2026
I love my brothers and sisters in Christ from traditional, liturgical churches and respect their views, but I do not feel any sect of the Christian… pic.twitter.com/jqohEWk0xJ
Predictable dispensationalist slop...
The follow up comments to his tone deaf post are funnier.
Gross.
American/Western Protestant Dispensationalist are the absolute worst and the single most ignorant people on the planet.
I would rather try to find common ground with a Buddhist or Zoroastrian. At least those people aren't ******ed.
If you agree with Mike Huckabee you are a heretic and I don't believe you are Christian. You follow a different religion all together.
American/Western Protestant Dispensationalist are the absolute worst and the single most ignorant people on the planet.
I would rather try to find common ground with a Buddhist or Zoroastrian. At least those people aren't ******ed.
If you agree with Mike Huckabee you are a heretic and I don't believe you are Christian. You follow a different religion all together.
You can reasonably disagree with Christian Zionism and Dispensationalism, but not sure what gives you the right to say people that do believe in such things are not Christian?
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you are a Christian in my eyes, and the Bible says "you will be saved." Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you are a Christian in my eyes, and the Bible says "you will be saved." Romans 10:9
Yeah, I don't agree. If you feel like there needs to be a third temple and you don't believe Christ was the final sacrifice or that The Church is not the new Jerusalem then we are not on the same path.
Your Jesus doesn't sound like my Jesus.
It sounds like a Muslim saying we love Jesus too. We follow the same God.
I may be wrong and willing to listen but I think it's a reasonable concern.
I think Mormons say they are Christian too. Do you respect what the Mormons are saying and agree that they are basically the same thing as you?
Your Jesus doesn't sound like my Jesus.
It sounds like a Muslim saying we love Jesus too. We follow the same God.
I may be wrong and willing to listen but I think it's a reasonable concern.
I think Mormons say they are Christian too. Do you respect what the Mormons are saying and agree that they are basically the same thing as you?
CrackerJackAg said:
Yeah, I don't agree. If you feel like there needs to be a third temple and you don't believe Christ was the final sacrifice or that The Church is not the new Jerusalem then we are not on the same path.
For starters, I don't know if I would identify as a Dispensationalist or a Christian Zionist. I don't think there "needs" to be a third temple. I believe Christ was the ultimate sacrifice that fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. And I believe that the Church is - at minimum - a form or a glimpse of the New Jerusalem, if not the actual thing itself, (although admittedly I haven't done much study on that last one). All I'm trying to say is that even the most "extreme" Dispensationalists / Christian Zionists wouldn't argue that a third temple is "needed" for Christian salvation (obviously), but they might think it necessary for the fulfillment of eschatological prophecies surrounding the end times. Whether they are right or not is a whole separate subject that I do not care to discuss. But even if they are wrong in their eschatology, I'm not sure it removes their status as Christians.
Again, I'm not trying to argue that Jesus is on a particular side. There is only one Jesus, and we should all aim to seek Him and know Him, for He is the the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him. (John 14:6)CrackerJackAg said:
Your Jesus doesn't sound like my Jesus.
I personally am not in the business of passing judgment or condemnation on any particular sect. I do believe there is one Truth, and that certain Christian denominations are likely closer to the Truth than others. So of course there are differences between Mormons, and Roman Catholics, and Southern Baptists. None of them are the same. But if a Mormon, or a Catholic, or a Baptist declares with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead, I believe they will be saved as Romans 10:9 tells us they will. To believe otherwise seems to me that it would require either the denial of Scripture or the invalidity of the text, which of course I do not believe!CrackerJackAg said:
It sounds like a Muslim saying we love Jesus too. We follow the same God.
I may be wrong and willing to listen but I think it's a reasonable concern.
I think Mormons say they are Christian too. Do you respect what the Mormons are saying and agree that they are basically the same thing as you?
I understand the sentiment and wanting to have that belief. 5 Years ago I was right there with you.
My. major concern is that I hear people talk about their beliefs in who God is. It doesn't align with who I and The Church see as God. Sometimes in huge amounts even in regards to Trinitarian beliefs.
I think that matters. If I am selling you a car and we decide on the White Honda Civic and I show up with a Green Volkswagon Beetle and tell you its the same thing its obviously not. Simplistic but I think you get the point.
I guess the core issue I have is that if you change the framework enough you are essentially changing the DNA of the faith and creating what feels like a very different faith and a God I don't recognize.
The Rapture
Dispensationalism
Sola Scriptura
Personal Interpretations of the Bible
Personal Jesus
The Five Solas in General
Alter Calls and Decision Based Salvation
Once Saved Always Saved
Prosperity Gospel
Legalism/Legalistic Approach to Salvation
Rejection of The Church/Creation of Invisible Church
Rejection of Apostolic Succession
Removal of the Liturgy and Innovative Worship
Rejection of Saints and Icons
No True Eucharist
Pretty much every Sacrament Scrapped Honestly
I think if you remove yourself from a Western/US/Southern Christian perspective it seems very strange.
My. major concern is that I hear people talk about their beliefs in who God is. It doesn't align with who I and The Church see as God. Sometimes in huge amounts even in regards to Trinitarian beliefs.
I think that matters. If I am selling you a car and we decide on the White Honda Civic and I show up with a Green Volkswagon Beetle and tell you its the same thing its obviously not. Simplistic but I think you get the point.
I guess the core issue I have is that if you change the framework enough you are essentially changing the DNA of the faith and creating what feels like a very different faith and a God I don't recognize.
The Rapture
Dispensationalism
Sola Scriptura
Personal Interpretations of the Bible
Personal Jesus
The Five Solas in General
Alter Calls and Decision Based Salvation
Once Saved Always Saved
Prosperity Gospel
Legalism/Legalistic Approach to Salvation
Rejection of The Church/Creation of Invisible Church
Rejection of Apostolic Succession
Removal of the Liturgy and Innovative Worship
Rejection of Saints and Icons
No True Eucharist
Pretty much every Sacrament Scrapped Honestly
I think if you remove yourself from a Western/US/Southern Christian perspective it seems very strange.
I don't really know where I fall on this but I think anyone who thinks Isreal isn't still important to God is woefully ignorant of both scripture and history.
3,000 years of persecution and yet they thrive. This is no accident. The Dead Sea Scrollls disappear the year the Temple is destroyed, and magically reappear the year Isreal is refounded. This is no accident.
Christ is the bedrock of salvation, but God promised to never forget his chosen people. I just don't believe in a God that breaks promises, and I think the evidence is abundantly clear that He hasn't.
3,000 years of persecution and yet they thrive. This is no accident. The Dead Sea Scrollls disappear the year the Temple is destroyed, and magically reappear the year Isreal is refounded. This is no accident.
Christ is the bedrock of salvation, but God promised to never forget his chosen people. I just don't believe in a God that breaks promises, and I think the evidence is abundantly clear that He hasn't.
CrackerJackAg said:
Gross.
American/Western Protestant Dispensationalist are the absolute worst and the single most ignorant people on the planet. Basically the same as a backward goat loving weirdo in Afghanistan just in a richer country.
I would rather try to find common ground with a Buddhist or Zoroastrian. At least those people aren't ******ed.
If you agree with Mike Huckabee you are a heretic and I don't believe you are Christian. You follow a different religion all together.
This is really a terrible thing to say about fellow members of the Body of Christ and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Just an ugly and disgraceful post.
Silent For Too Long said:CrackerJackAg said:
Gross.
American/Western Protestant Dispensationalist are the absolute worst and the single most ignorant people on the planet. Basically the same as a backward goat loving weirdo in Afghanistan just in a richer country.
I would rather try to find common ground with a Buddhist or Zoroastrian. At least those people aren't ******ed.
If you agree with Mike Huckabee you are a heretic and I don't believe you are Christian. You follow a different religion all together.
This is really a terrible thing to say about fellow members of the Body of Christ and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Just an ugly and disgraceful post.
To be quite honest, many of us in the Apostolic churches don't consider Protestants to be a part of the Body of Christ.
It's nothing personal, Christ just established the Church as his Body, and the Church is made up of the descendants of the Apostles and their flock, as per Christ.
It's ok man, I'm not offended by ignorance and bigotry, only saddened. The Holy Spirit fills me and I will continue to pray for you.
Severian the Torturer said:Silent For Too Long said:CrackerJackAg said:
Gross.
American/Western Protestant Dispensationalist are the absolute worst and the single most ignorant people on the planet. Basically the same as a backward goat loving weirdo in Afghanistan just in a richer country.
I would rather try to find common ground with a Buddhist or Zoroastrian. At least those people aren't ******ed.
If you agree with Mike Huckabee you are a heretic and I don't believe you are Christian. You follow a different religion all together.
This is really a terrible thing to say about fellow members of the Body of Christ and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Just an ugly and disgraceful post.
To be quite honest, many of us in the Apostolic churches don't consider Protestants to be a part of the Body of Christ.
It's nothing personal, Christ just established the Church as his Body, and the Church is made up of the descendants of the Apostles and their flock, as per Christ.
Christ never excluded anyone. You be you.
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Silent For Too Long said:
It's ok man, I'm not offended by ignorance and bigotry, only saddened. The Holy Spirit fills me and I will continue to pray for you.
Would you say a Christian scientist, Santeria practitioner or Mormon is part of the body of Christ?
If not, is that bigotry?
Severian the Torturer said:Silent For Too Long said:
It's ok man, I'm not offended by ignorance and bigotry, only saddened. The Holy Spirit fills me and I will continue to pray for you.
Would you say a Christian scientist, Santeria practitioner or Mormon is part of the body of Christ?
If not, is that bigotry?
Why do you make it us vs them?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc said:Severian the Torturer said:Silent For Too Long said:
It's ok man, I'm not offended by ignorance and bigotry, only saddened. The Holy Spirit fills me and I will continue to pray for you.
Would you say a Christian scientist, Santeria practitioner or Mormon is part of the body of Christ?
If not, is that bigotry?
Why do you make it is vs them?
Because that is how you compare two things
He never excluded anyone, but he did let them walk away by their own choice, as we see in John 6. He lets people leave him, but is always there if someone desires to come back.
I don't think Severian is just trying to exclude them for no reason. After all, these are groups and people that split from the Church he left us because they disagreed with it. There are fragments of the faith in these heretical groups, but the fullness of the faith and truth can only be found in one place.
I don't think Severian is just trying to exclude them for no reason. After all, these are groups and people that split from the Church he left us because they disagreed with it. There are fragments of the faith in these heretical groups, but the fullness of the faith and truth can only be found in one place.
TeddyAg0422 said:
He never excluded anyone, but he did let them walk away by their own choice, as we see in John 6. He lets people leave him, but is always there if someone desires to come back.
I don't think Severian is just trying to exclude them for no reason. After all, these are groups and people that split from the Church he left us because they disagreed with it. There are fragments of the faith in these heretical groups, but the fullness of the faith and truth can only be found in one place.
Good post. For me it's a very simple calculus. Christ founded the Church on the Apostles, Peter foremost among them. This Church is also his body, so those outside of the Apostolic Church, are also outside his Body.
TeddyAg0422 said:
He never excluded anyone, but he did let them walk away by their own choice, as we see in John 6. He lets people leave him, but is always there if someone desires to come back.
I don't think Severian is just trying to exclude them for no reason. After all, these are groups and people that split from the Church he left us because they disagreed with it. There are fragments of the faith in these heretical groups, but the fullness of the faith and truth can only be found in one place.
Since I am not Catholic or Orthodox, guess I am a heretic.
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KentK93
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It's much more nuanced than that. Just because you might be part of a "heretical" group doesn't necessarily mean that you yourself are a heretic. I presume you were born into a protestant background, therefore you never made the free-will choice to leave the faith of the apostles.
There are many, many nuances to things this serious. Someone not being a part of or believing a certain thing does not automatically make them a heretic, particularily if the areas of theological disagreement are due to no fault of their own.
There are many, many nuances to things this serious. Someone not being a part of or believing a certain thing does not automatically make them a heretic, particularily if the areas of theological disagreement are due to no fault of their own.
Is the current pope a heretic?
For the record, I normally stay out of these interdonominational pissing contests because I find them inherently counter productive, but anyone who thinks what Crackerjack said is above board and appropriate desperately needs to pray about it.
Not that I'm aware of. May the Lord bless the holy father and all of us. What makes you ask?
TeddyAg0422 said:
Not that I'm aware of. May the Lord bless the holy father and all of us. What makes you ask?
I just know a lot of Catholics feel many of his positions are heretical.
I honestly was just curious where you stand.
Silent For Too Long said:TeddyAg0422 said:
Not that I'm aware of. May the Lord bless the holy father and all of us. What makes you ask?
I just know a lot of Catholics feel many of his positions are heretical.
I honestly was just curious where you stand.
I don't see Pope Leo as a heretical. He hasn't been Pope for a full year yet. I was not a fan of Pope Francis and my favorite Pope of my lifetime is Saint Pope John-Paul II.
Silent For Too Long said:
For the record, I normally stay out of these interdonominational pissing contests because I find them inherently counter productive, but anyone who thinks what Crackerjack said is above board and appropriate desperately needs to pray about it.
How so? Because you disagree with it? I think I articulated my position quite well and others followed up that many Orthodox and Catholics do not consider Protestants to be part of the body of Christ.
I'm sure Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses get their feelings hurt when you say they aren't Christians, but you're okay with that.
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