Illiteracy on the rise in the United States and worldwide

1,881 Views | 28 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by FIDO95
codker92
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Makes me wonder whether this has to do with any of the other religious shifts mentioned on this sub

Many Young Adults Barely Literate, Yet Earned a High School Diploma The 74
ramblin_ag02
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I definitely think there is a relationship. The primary drivers of mass literacy were the Reformation/Counter-Reformation and then the Enlightenment. So what you want about every man being his own Pope and interpreting the Bible on his own, but it is a powerful incentive to learn to read and to learn to read very, very well.

The Enlightenment was a secular child of Protestantism with a similar emphasis on mass education including literacy. The modern western world is built on the Protestant, and modern Catholic ethos, and the Enlightment thoughts. These are all under assault by the postmodern, anti-colonial movements on one side and primitive, tribalistic movements on the other side. Neither of those types of movements particularly values Truth as a constant, virtuous ideal. Without a commitment to immutable Truth, any commitment to education is based only on inertia. After all, what is the point of learning if the truth can change in any circumstance and without notice? Even indoctrination isn't worth the time when the today's indoctrination is already outdated when next week arrives.

TLDR: it is not surprising to see dropping literacy in the current world, and it is another marker of the fall of Western civilization
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dermdoc
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I would like to see a study that measured illiteracy before and after cell phones.
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powerbelly
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dermdoc said:

I would like to see a study that measured illiteracy before and after cell phones.

I would like to see before and after Covid lockdowns.
Sapper Redux
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This is too reductive. The Enlightenment, for example, reached its intellectual and philosophical apex in Catholic France. What drove literacy more than anything was economics. The very existence of mass printing coupled with the economic rise of cities created a middle class that needed literacy in a way your average Medieval worker didn't. Protestantism influenced certain pushes for literacy, amongst the Puritans, for example, which is why New England was vastly better educated than the rest of the country for centuries. However, the people attracted to Puritanism in England were educated middling class people. You can easily find Protestant nations with poor literacy. It depended on the economic context more than the religious context.

The shift away from literacy today may reflect a retreat in economic opportunities and a narrowing of horizons for folks in poorer communities. Again, this isn't new. You'd find large pockets of illiteracy in poor rural and urban communities without access to middle class careers.
AGC
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Sapper Redux said:

This is too reductive. The Enlightenment, for example, reached its intellectual and philosophical apex in Catholic France. What drove literacy more than anything was economics. The very existence of mass printing coupled with the economic rise of cities created a middle class that needed literacy in a way your average Medieval worker didn't. Protestantism influenced certain pushes for literacy, amongst the Puritans, for example, which is why New England was vastly better educated than the rest of the country for centuries. However, the people attracted to Puritanism in England were educated middling class people. You can easily find Protestant nations with poor literacy. It depended on the economic context more than the religious context.

The shift away from literacy today may reflect a retreat in economic opportunities and a narrowing of horizons for folks in poorer communities. Again, this isn't new. You'd find large pockets of illiteracy in poor rural and urban communities without access to middle class careers.


It could also reflect techniques of teaching derived from liberal college professors against phonics…
Science Denier
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I would have thought with the rise of smart phones, more people would actually be able to read.
Sapper Redux
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Keep workshopping your joke. There's got to be a good one in there somewhere.
AGC
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Sapper Redux said:

Keep workshopping your joke. There's got to be a good one in there somewhere.


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/kids-reading-scores-have-soared-in-mississippi-miracle

Movement back to phonics, among other things. Imagine scrapping new and innovative for what works.
Sapper Redux
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Somehow I doubt "PHONICS" is the sole answer to illiteracy. Actually investing in public education is typically a good start.
Science Denier
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Sapper Redux said:

Somehow I doubt "PHONICS" is the sole answer to illiteracy. Actually investing in public education is typically a good start.

You mean MORE money that we ALREADY spend?

LOL, that isn't the answer.
10andBOUNCE
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Sapper Redux said:

investing in public education is typically a good start.

ramblin_ag02
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Sapper Redux said:

This is too reductive. The Enlightenment, for example, reached its intellectual and philosophical apex in Catholic France. What drove literacy more than anything was economics. The very existence of mass printing coupled with the economic rise of cities created a middle class that needed literacy in a way your average Medieval worker didn't. Protestantism influenced certain pushes for literacy, amongst the Puritans, for example, which is why New England was vastly better educated than the rest of the country for centuries. However, the people attracted to Puritanism in England were educated middling class people. You can easily find Protestant nations with poor literacy. It depended on the economic context more than the religious context.

The shift away from literacy today may reflect a retreat in economic opportunities and a narrowing of horizons for folks in poorer communities. Again, this isn't new. You'd find large pockets of illiteracy in poor rural and urban communities without access to middle class careers.

I disagree

First, the economic drive to produce literacy did not occur until centuries after the rapid rise in literacy across Europe. It is well documented that literacy rose sharply in the 1600s, but the industrial revolution was not widespread until the 1800s. Prior to that the overwhelming majority of people were agricultural workers doing the same jobs their families had done for centuries. They had no economic need to read. Yet they all started becoming literate at very rapid rates. This coincided with the Protestant Reformation/Catholic Counterreformation. Even the 1800s it is shown that Protestants had 20% higher literature rates than Catholics under similar circumstances, including the widespread use of the printing press and similar economic conditions. And that's after the advances of the Counter Reformation.

In addition to literacy being completely superfluous for ag workers, it was the same during the early industrialized era. Factory workers did not need to read for any practical purposes. There have always been professions, like clerk and lawyer, that required literacy. But these were hardly widespread enough to account for historical changes.

I stand by my original statement. People learn to read primarily for ideological reasons. Look at the Jewish people. They have very high rates of literacy throught history, and it has certainly benefitted them economically. However, they are not teaching their children to read using business journals. They teach them to read using the Tanakh. Ideology drives reading, and then the benefits follow. The Protestants had Sola Scriptura to drive literacy, and the Catholics followed suit. But the Catholics have less ideological drive to read, and therefore a gap between them persisted for centuries. The Enlightenment thinkers believed in immutable universal truths. Writing was the best way to share and preserve those truths, and therefore literacy was essential.

You can talk about Protestant communities with limited economic opportunity having "low literacy", but you need to define that a bit. If they are all ag and construction workers, the need for reading economically might be close to 0%. So when 50% of the population reads with no economic incentive at all, then how would you explain that other than ideology?
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10andBOUNCE
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To somewhat carry this thought forward, I think a large driver is simply that people just don't read books anymore.
dermdoc
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10andBOUNCE said:

To somewhat carry this thought forward, I think a large driver is simply that people just don't read books anymore.


Agree. And I think it is tied in with social media use.
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TeddyAg0422
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100%. The average attention span has decreased at an incredible rate
AGC
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dermdoc said:

10andBOUNCE said:

To somewhat carry this thought forward, I think a large driver is simply that people just don't read books anymore.


Agree. And I think it is tied in with social media use.


Yes and no. Schools ditched physical books for chromebooks and iPads. Also, where does a poor person store books, and how do they afford them or protect them (assuming library access)?

School is the safest place to read that you're required to go.
10andBOUNCE
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AGC said:

dermdoc said:

10andBOUNCE said:

To somewhat carry this thought forward, I think a large driver is simply that people just don't read books anymore.


Agree. And I think it is tied in with social media use.


Yes and no. Schools ditched physical books for chromebooks and iPads. Also, where does a poor person store books, and how do they afford them or protect them (assuming library access)?

School is the safest place to read that you're required to go.

Regardless of socioeconomic position, kids don't read because they don't want to read. It isn't important to them like it used to be generations ago.
Sapper Redux
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Science Denier said:

Sapper Redux said:

Somehow I doubt "PHONICS" is the sole answer to illiteracy. Actually investing in public education is typically a good start.

You mean MORE money that we ALREADY spend?

LOL, that isn't the answer.


You may want to check out states with the best educational outcomes and how they structure their public schools.
ramblin_ag02
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TeddyAg0422 said:

100%. The average attention span has decreased at an incredible rate


Definitely a major component and a huge issue on its own. The sabotage of the average attention span by ad companies is intentional and devastating
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AGC
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10andBOUNCE said:

AGC said:

dermdoc said:

10andBOUNCE said:

To somewhat carry this thought forward, I think a large driver is simply that people just don't read books anymore.


Agree. And I think it is tied in with social media use.


Yes and no. Schools ditched physical books for chromebooks and iPads. Also, where does a poor person store books, and how do they afford them or protect them (assuming library access)?

School is the safest place to read that you're required to go.

Regardless of socioeconomic position, kids don't read because they don't want to read. It isn't important to them like it used to be generations ago.


This isn't true. It isn't important to kids whose parents give them pocket demons, sure. But most kids didn't want to read for school generations ago either. I didn't for sure.
The Banned
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10andBOUNCE said:

AGC said:

dermdoc said:

10andBOUNCE said:

To somewhat carry this thought forward, I think a large driver is simply that people just don't read books anymore.


Agree. And I think it is tied in with social media use.


Yes and no. Schools ditched physical books for chromebooks and iPads. Also, where does a poor person store books, and how do they afford them or protect them (assuming library access)?

School is the safest place to read that you're required to go.

Regardless of socioeconomic position, kids don't read because they don't want to read. It isn't important to them like it used to be generations ago.

The bigger issue is the parents. If a parent of a 2nd-4th grader isn't aware that they are failing to read on grade level, then the parent isn't paying attention and isn't doing their job. This is where the vast majority of kids begin to fail and they never get past this level. A 2nd-4th grader is not responsible enough to learn how to read well if they aren't a natural bookworm. It's not the teacher's job to care more about the kid than the parents do. It's the parents job to make sure the kid is getting what they need to succeed.
10andBOUNCE
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No disagreements here. Can likely include the growing fatherless generations as a big driver for kids not reading. Strong families that stay together and have a strong father figure will emphasize education more.

Larry Elder comes to mind as someone who has beaten this drum often and attributes most of our social issues to fatherlessness. His claim is that it can be tied to policy and welfare shifts, especially from the 1960s.
747Ag
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AGC said:

10andBOUNCE said:

AGC said:

dermdoc said:

10andBOUNCE said:

To somewhat carry this thought forward, I think a large driver is simply that people just don't read books anymore.


Agree. And I think it is tied in with social media use.


Yes and no. Schools ditched physical books for chromebooks and iPads. Also, where does a poor person store books, and how do they afford them or protect them (assuming library access)?

School is the safest place to read that you're required to go.

Regardless of socioeconomic position, kids don't read because they don't want to read. It isn't important to them like it used to be generations ago.


This isn't true. It isn't important to kids whose parents give them pocket demons, sure. But most kids didn't want to read for school generations ago either. I didn't for sure.

Words suck. If I wanted to read, I'd go to school.
-- Butt-head
Science Denier
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Quote:

I taught some of the stupidest children God ever put on the face of this earth and all of them could read well enough to read the face of a tombstone.

Driving Miss Daisy (5/9) Movie CLIP - Learning to Read (1989) HD
NoahAg
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Sapper Redux said:

Somehow I doubt "PHONICS" is the sole answer to illiteracy. Actually investing in public education is typically a good start.

LOL, right. "We spend 10X more on education than we did 25 years ago, but kids are getting dumber! Let's spend even more money!"
NoahAg
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Sapper Redux said:

Science Denier said:

Sapper Redux said:

Somehow I doubt "PHONICS" is the sole answer to illiteracy. Actually investing in public education is typically a good start.

You mean MORE money that we ALREADY spend?

LOL, that isn't the answer.


You may want to check out states with the best educational outcomes and how they structure their public schools.

I bet those states also have some similar "demographics."
Sapper Redux
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NoahAg said:

Sapper Redux said:

Science Denier said:

Sapper Redux said:

Somehow I doubt "PHONICS" is the sole answer to illiteracy. Actually investing in public education is typically a good start.

You mean MORE money that we ALREADY spend?

LOL, that isn't the answer.


You may want to check out states with the best educational outcomes and how they structure their public schools.

I bet those states also have some similar "demographics."

Sigh. Which demographics?Are we going down a racial essentialist hole now?
FIDO95
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The issues related to illiteracy are incredibly multifactorial.

The advent of technology and social media has obviously played a large role. Over exposure to "screen time" is associated with delays in development in language and social skills in toddlers and young children. They have less imaginative play and shorter attention spans which can impact later learning. Over exposure in pre-pubertal years, is associated with increased anxiety and depression. It's hard to learn when your mental health is poor. Meta just got their ass sued for hiding some of this data. It is all well laid out in Johnathan Haidt's book "Anxious Generation". This is more recent collection of data:

HaidtRausch_WHR_2026_Jan14

The second part of the collapse is the idea of equity in education. Not all kids have the same IQ. It is moronic to think all will have the same outcome. Kids struggling should be forced to pass their grade or repeat and/or moved into a trade school curriculum/path. Kids excelling should be pushed into GT type programs to further stimulant them. What is currently happening is the smart kids are getting a dumbed down education and the struggling kids are getting advanced without producing any adequate proficiency.

Thomas Sowell on School Choice and the Price Our Children Pay for Bad Ideas | Hoover Institution

The 97% Success Formula They Won't Teach in Schools - Ian Rowe

In regards to the correlation of poor education and an uptick in religion, I don't think the two are necessarily related. I think the "Matrix" that has been created with current social media has led to an increase in depression and people finding less meaning with life. The way out of the "Matrix" is to free yourself from the simulation and attach yourself to the Devine.

The Real Reason Modern Life Feels Empty w/ Fr. Mike Schmitz and Dr. Arthur Brooks
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