Will the Popes and Bishops Burn in Hell?

2,416 Views | 36 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by CrackerJackAg
CrackerJackAg
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AG
DirtDiver said:

" 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." 1 John.

How does one get the Son?


The Gospel:
Everyone is a sinner and continues to sin.
Sin separates us all from God.
God sent His perfect sinless Son to buy, purchase, redeem, pay our debt of sin freely as a gift.
That Gift is specifically His life for ours.
Jesus rose from the dead.

The moment a person accepts, trusts, believes, receives, God's gift of Jesus for their sins, their debt is paid no matter how many sins that person has committed and will commit in the future.

All people in hell are sinners and all people in heaven with the exception of Jesus are sinners. Those who burn in hell are the ones that don't have the Son.

Im not quite sure who you were replying to as it is a general statement but for the sake of discussion I would like to offer the non Protestant/Catholic perspective as this doesn't quite sit right.

The reason this doesn't hit right with me is that you're looking at salvation through a strict legalistic which is a later Western development. First by the Catholics then the Protestants adopted it as they didn't know any other way that from the tree they branched from.

The Orthodox Church doesn't see salvation as a legal transaction where a debt is paid. It sees salvation as a hospital or physician. Sin isn't a legal infraction that makes God angry but rather as an illness that corrupts us.

The whole paying a penalty perspective has always confused me. Christ didn't come to pay an angry God. Kind of weird when you think about it. God sent his own nature or essence to suffer to pay himself back for our sins?

He came to heal our broken nature, conquer death in the process and inject His own immortal life into us. This just makes more sense on the most basic level.

It certainly isn't free though. Orthodoxy agrees you can't earn grace or buy your way in. It's absolutely a gift but it's like a life saving medicine that only works if you actually take it and stop doing the **** that made you sick to begin with. It requires synergy and relationship with God.

Salvation isn't a one-and-done that negates all future unrepentant behavior. No alter call, revival moment or getting "saved" does the job. No "once saved always saved".

It's a living relationship. Salvation is "free" in a way but it costs you your entire life (Faith and Works?) to stay united to God.
CrackerJackAg
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On Catholic/Protestant Legalism:

Milestone 2 grosses me out. You see where a disgusting backwards and ignorant dark age culture developed a really warped perspective on the RCC.

Milestone 1: The Seeds of Roman Law (Tertullian & Augustine)

  • The Timeline: 2nd to 5th Centuries
  • The Shift: Before he became a Christian theologian, Tertullian (c. 155220 AD) was a Roman lawyer. When he began writing theology in Latin, he naturally imported Roman legal terminology to explain spiritual concepts. He was the first to use Latin terms like meritum (merit) and satisfactio (satisfaction) regarding a person's standing before God.
  • The Result: Later, St. Augustine of Hippo (354430 AD) heavily shaped the West's view of sin. While the East viewed original sin as an inherited disease or mortality, Augustine interpreted it through a more legal lens as inherited guilt (reatus). In his view, every human is born legally guilty of Adam's rebellion and is a member of a "damned mass" (massa damnata), legally deserving God's wrath from birth.
Milestone 2: Feudalism and the "Debt of Honor" (Anselm of Canterbury)

  • The Timeline: 11th Century (Right around the Great Schism of 1054)
  • The Shift: This is the most crucial turning point. In 1098, a Western monk named Anselm of Canterbury wrote a massive book called Cur Deus Homo ("Why God Became Man").
  • The Analogy: Anselm lived in a medieval, European feudal society. In feudal law, if a peasant insults or wrongs a local lord, it breaks the lord's "honor." The peasant cannot just say "sorry"; they owe a physical debt of satisfaction to restore that honor. The greater the lord, the greater the offense. Because God is infinite, human sin is an infinite insult to His honor.
  • The Result: Anselm argued that humanity owed an infinite debt to God's honor that we couldn't pay. Only a God-man (Jesus) could pay it. Therefore, Christ died to satisfy the offended honor of God the Father. This shifted the entire Western understanding of the cross from a rescue mission (conquering death and the devil) to a transaction aimed at satisfying God.
Milestone 3: The High Middle Ages and Indulgences

  • The Timeline: 12th to 15th Centuries
  • The Shift: Roman Catholic Scholasticism (theological philosophy led by thinkers like Thomas Aquinas) fully systematized this legal approach. Salvation became a highly organized ledger of accounts:
    • Eternal Punishment: Forgiven by Christ.
    • Temporal Punishment: The leftover legal penalty for your sins that you still had to pay off through penance on earth or time in Purgatory.
  • The Result: This deep legalism is what eventually created the "Treasury of Merits" and the sale of indulgences (paying money to the church to legally reduce a soul's time in Purgatory).
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