What Titan said sums it up pretty well. You are correct that Trump can't just force companies to do what he wants. But Trump gets votes by acknowledging these trade issues (and on the left, Sanders does the same thing). If you are one of those workers who is just trying to keep a middle class lifestyle and are worried about your job going to Mexico or China, you are probably going to vote for the candidate that speaks to those worries, even if the plan to solve your problems is unrealistic.
Who actually votes for Trump?
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Last: 4 days ago by Ulysses90
Here's the thing I don't get. You have Bonfire1996 saying a snobby upper class subdivision of Frisco voted for Trump second only to Cruz...(and that's not the only example of such--- apparently holds for some of Highland Park to hear)
Yet we still have so many here and on TV equating Trump's support with the trailer park vote.
And they say this despite the fact the voters clearly exist in large numbers, as shown by the voting numbers that are way beyond the trailer park numbers. Even Center Left are swayed. If Trump is blowing a tire now and skidding out, its because he shoots himself in foot at times---not because the conventional narrative or ridicule is right about the basic message he espouses.
And yet there still continues a peculiar inflexibile refusal to deal with the fact that elections go by what the voters perceive, not what they were taught in school (what is taught anymore?) or very intellectualized ideas of commerce. Or the the fact the Democrats vis SJWs and others have come across as anti-American Exceptionalism and heritage for nearly all this century now, and the Republicans come across as only willing to talk about it long enough to get elected. Both parties outside the challenger candidates, come across willing to be slack-jaw careless about immigration.
The fact is Cruz and Trump are one of the few that talk like they mean what they say, and (this is important) are seen as hated by the right people (wreckers of the country like the MSM and activists, to the middle-class pov) to seem "legit". Another factor is their strong national tone---much of the military likes both. (Perry had a chunk of this too).
The reason this matters is it is not going away after 2016 (assuming defeat) if not better realized.
Bonfire's post has me going back to original thought; the election just might surprise. (Don't bank on it though) Its pretty obvious looking at the range that characterizing all the supporters as trash is just the most insane form of right-wing elitism as is, but learning that neighborhoods like Frisco are voting for the pair really puts that thesis doubt.
I think Rove's meandering incoherence here:
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/2738179/replies/45915719
is classic in its clear tone-deafness of this. The Right is starting to sound like Obama so clueless after 2010 and 2014 not understanding "where the shellacking" in the mid-terms came from.
Or even as quick to label as the MSM. Cruz will need many of these people.
Yet we still have so many here and on TV equating Trump's support with the trailer park vote.
And they say this despite the fact the voters clearly exist in large numbers, as shown by the voting numbers that are way beyond the trailer park numbers. Even Center Left are swayed. If Trump is blowing a tire now and skidding out, its because he shoots himself in foot at times---not because the conventional narrative or ridicule is right about the basic message he espouses.
And yet there still continues a peculiar inflexibile refusal to deal with the fact that elections go by what the voters perceive, not what they were taught in school (what is taught anymore?) or very intellectualized ideas of commerce. Or the the fact the Democrats vis SJWs and others have come across as anti-American Exceptionalism and heritage for nearly all this century now, and the Republicans come across as only willing to talk about it long enough to get elected. Both parties outside the challenger candidates, come across willing to be slack-jaw careless about immigration.
The fact is Cruz and Trump are one of the few that talk like they mean what they say, and (this is important) are seen as hated by the right people (wreckers of the country like the MSM and activists, to the middle-class pov) to seem "legit". Another factor is their strong national tone---much of the military likes both. (Perry had a chunk of this too).
The reason this matters is it is not going away after 2016 (assuming defeat) if not better realized.
Bonfire's post has me going back to original thought; the election just might surprise. (Don't bank on it though) Its pretty obvious looking at the range that characterizing all the supporters as trash is just the most insane form of right-wing elitism as is, but learning that neighborhoods like Frisco are voting for the pair really puts that thesis doubt.
I think Rove's meandering incoherence here:
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/2738179/replies/45915719
is classic in its clear tone-deafness of this. The Right is starting to sound like Obama so clueless after 2010 and 2014 not understanding "where the shellacking" in the mid-terms came from.
Or even as quick to label as the MSM. Cruz will need many of these people.
The one person I know IRL who is a Trump supporter is a long-time fishing guide down in Islamorada. He's never been political at all and probably would be a Cruz guy if he thought about it but he's very strongly anti-Rubio because Rubio is seen as being beholden to the sugar industry in South Florida which is a massive factor in the decline of water quality in the Everglades and by extension Florida Bay and the Keys.
I know Keith has talked about having a place in the Keys so perhaps he can corroborate further but this sugar conglomerate is privately held and rakes in millions, if not billions, in government subsidies and in turn they lobby the government heavily to keep that corporate welfare flowing all while being seriously detrimental to the water quality which directly impacts the Glades and the Keys.
Check out bullsugar.org and there's a lot more info.
I know Keith has talked about having a place in the Keys so perhaps he can corroborate further but this sugar conglomerate is privately held and rakes in millions, if not billions, in government subsidies and in turn they lobby the government heavily to keep that corporate welfare flowing all while being seriously detrimental to the water quality which directly impacts the Glades and the Keys.
Check out bullsugar.org and there's a lot more info.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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quote:So you are a minority ( but a genius ) ! There's so few of you geniuses 1
I have a few real-life friends / coworkers who are Trump supporters and a few loud Facebook friends who support him, none of whom I consider geniuses..
quote:Yea you do. That was a smart move. Sell at the top and buy at the bottom. .
Moved in during the height of the 2008 crash. Now I'm just trying to time my sale correctly. Trust me, I don't belong.
I think a lot of Trump supporters are quiet about it because they don't want to offend people or create backlash.
What difference does it make whether you personally know somebody who supports him?
quote:I know a couple good Ags who are pretty hardcore Trump supporters. They're not what I would call "low information" voters, either. Far from it.
Maybe I'm just isolated, but I have yet to meet anyone who has voted for/supports Trump.
Granted I'm a law student, and all of my friends have degrees. I know I'm hardly a cross section of America.
According to the article displayed on Drudge yesterday, Trump's campaign has hired the key figure in manipulating the vote in Latin American for the past decade. His computer hacker is serving prison time in South America.
I don't know a single Trump supporter in real life. I am completely baffled that this guy is winning. I think he has close to 100% of the "people of Wal-Mart" vote locked up.
quote:
Who actually votes for Trump?
Quite a few rural folks. I have morning coffee with about ten of em here regularly.
They're mad, disgusted, and distrustful of all politicians.
'Course, so am I, but I'd never vote Trump.
quote:It was actually a sarcastic way of saying that these people are very dumb... But I think you knew that.quote:So you are a minority ( but a genius ) ! There's so few of you geniuses 1
I have a few real-life friends / coworkers who are Trump supporters and a few loud Facebook friends who support him, none of whom I consider geniuses..
All this `don't know a single Trump supporter' talk baffles giving the turn-outs and numbers. I wonder how many could also say they haven't met an Obama or Bernie supporter? If the answer is No, it really speaks to an insulated context.
See the masses of LIV, XXLIV and the senseless horde of absolute fools do have the power. They hold the keys to the presidency and the smart money has determined in early November there is going to be a YUGE, beyond reason, massive idiotic break causing a stampede towards Trump.
Follow the money, get with the program, go all in for the big win and follow the masses to the celebration. One benefit is that being surrounded by stupid will protect you from the eruption of violent liberal mobs.
Follow the money, get with the program, go all in for the big win and follow the masses to the celebration. One benefit is that being surrounded by stupid will protect you from the eruption of violent liberal mobs.
quote:
I have yet to meet a Trump supporter in person. They're plenty online 24/7, so either the people I know are smart not enough not to be taken in by a charlatan, or they're too embarrassed to say they voted for him.
This pretty much sums up my experience. I haven't met a single trump supporter face to face. I really believe that at least some of them are embarrassed to admit they support him.
And here I thought Bernie was the candidate of unicorns and rainbows.
Well, 30+% of the Republican base is voting for Trump, so while some of those I would classify as LIV, some are clearly not. I know multiple Cruz supporters and a couple of Carson supporters (before he dropped out). I do know one Trump supporter and he is an IT manager. He is a big fan of Zero Hedge and other libertarian/conservative sites and is far from a LIV. In fact he would fit in on this board just fine. When I told him I was surprised that he was a Trump supporter and asked him why, his answer reminded me of thoughts that are expressed on this board frequently. Basically he is completely frustrated with both parties, the ruling elite, and big money buying influence. His money quote was (paraphrased) "I know Trump is a *****bag and full of sh**. I just want to blow it all up." In essence someone who is completely given up on the current political system.
IDAGG,
1) That's a dumb view to have, because fancy electronic stuff is not among the last, but among one of the first things that will unravel in an anarchic collapse.
2) This means there is two (probably more) main types of non LIV and rather edcuated Trump supporters. Your associates, kind, wanting to blow it all apart, and the ones that feel this part,:
"When I told him I was surprised that he was a Trump supporter and asked him why, his answer reminded me of thoughts that are expressed on this board frequently. Basically he is completely frustrated with both parties, the ruling elite, and big money buying influence. " == But feel while Trump is certainly a tycoon egotist, that is ALL he is, and like many of those eccentrics, still rather pro strong USA first and Americana, and all that. Not anti in tone like the admin and the Left. And they feel all of Trump's shortcomings are being exaggerated when compared to some of his printed policies.
There is an educated block whose real common ground is anti-PC. In this election, for many, including apparently alot of notable evangelical leaders, the "principles" is the principle of getting the WH out of a Left tone to a strong America First one.
It has created divides down the line. Most portions of the extended family are for Cruz, but some for Trump, thinking Cruz won't win Center Left votes, and that Trump can win worker votes and is getting the turnout.
Myself, I still haven't heard reason to vote for Hillary instead, which is all November really offers (so far). I am just waiting for the RNC to choose its nominee.
I still also think there is major irony in this--- we just might get Cruz there, because of Trump. The DNC-MSM-covert GOPe alliance and plotting was going to just destroy Cruz under the standard `lie down' 2012 model had PC's foundations not been so under attack and them having to defend other quarters.
quote:Two remarks:
When I told him I was surprised that he was a Trump supporter and asked him why, his answer reminded me of thoughts that are expressed on this board frequently. Basically he is completely frustrated with both parties, the ruling elite, and big money buying influence. His money quote was (paraphrased) "I know Trump is a *****bag and full of sh**. I just want to blow it all up." In essence someone who is completely given up on the current political system.
1) That's a dumb view to have, because fancy electronic stuff is not among the last, but among one of the first things that will unravel in an anarchic collapse.
2) This means there is two (probably more) main types of non LIV and rather edcuated Trump supporters. Your associates, kind, wanting to blow it all apart, and the ones that feel this part,:
"When I told him I was surprised that he was a Trump supporter and asked him why, his answer reminded me of thoughts that are expressed on this board frequently. Basically he is completely frustrated with both parties, the ruling elite, and big money buying influence. " == But feel while Trump is certainly a tycoon egotist, that is ALL he is, and like many of those eccentrics, still rather pro strong USA first and Americana, and all that. Not anti in tone like the admin and the Left. And they feel all of Trump's shortcomings are being exaggerated when compared to some of his printed policies.
There is an educated block whose real common ground is anti-PC. In this election, for many, including apparently alot of notable evangelical leaders, the "principles" is the principle of getting the WH out of a Left tone to a strong America First one.
It has created divides down the line. Most portions of the extended family are for Cruz, but some for Trump, thinking Cruz won't win Center Left votes, and that Trump can win worker votes and is getting the turnout.
Myself, I still haven't heard reason to vote for Hillary instead, which is all November really offers (so far). I am just waiting for the RNC to choose its nominee.
I still also think there is major irony in this--- we just might get Cruz there, because of Trump. The DNC-MSM-covert GOPe alliance and plotting was going to just destroy Cruz under the standard `lie down' 2012 model had PC's foundations not been so under attack and them having to defend other quarters.
quote:quote:
In my precinct, Trump only got one vote. I'm still trying to guess who that was.
I live in the snobbiest subdivision in all of West Frisco, and our precinct had 138 vote Cruz and 111 vote trump. One hundred and eleven. I am shocked. Just outright dismayed.
All this tells me is that your subdivision has 124 educated, successful homeowners, and 111 of them have trophy wives that watched The Apprentice, thinking it would teach them what their husband does for a living.
Bonfire aren't you a Trump supporter?
quote:Titan:
IDAGG,quote:Two remarks:
When I told him I was surprised that he was a Trump supporter and asked him why, his answer reminded me of thoughts that are expressed on this board frequently. Basically he is completely frustrated with both parties, the ruling elite, and big money buying influence. His money quote was (paraphrased) "I know Trump is a *****bag and full of sh**. I just want to blow it all up." In essence someone who is completely given up on the current political system.
1) That's a dumb view to have, because fancy electronic stuff is not among the last, but among one of the first things that will unravel in an anarchic collapse.
2) This means there is two (probably more) main types of non LIV and rather edcuated Trump supporters. Your associates, kind, wanting to blow it all apart, and the ones that feel this part,:
"When I told him I was surprised that he was a Trump supporter and asked him why, his answer reminded me of thoughts that are expressed on this board frequently. Basically he is completely frustrated with both parties, the ruling elite, and big money buying influence. " == But feel while Trump is certainly a tycoon egotist, that is ALL he is, and like many of those eccentrics, still rather pro strong USA first and Americana, and all that. Not anti in tone like the admin and the Left. And they feel all of Trump's shortcomings are being exaggerated when compared to some of his printed policies.
There is an educated block whose real common ground is anti-PC. In this election, for many, including apparently alot of notable evangelical leaders, the "principles" is the principle of getting the WH out of a Left tone to a strong America First one.
It has created divides down the line. Most portions of the extended family are for Cruz, but some for Trump, thinking Cruz won't win Center Left votes, and that Trump can win worker votes and is getting the turnout.
Myself, I still haven't heard reason to vote for Hillary instead, which is all November really offers (so far). I am just waiting for the RNC to choose its nominee.
I still also think there is major irony in this--- we just might get Cruz there, because of Trump. The DNC-MSM-covert GOPe alliance and plotting was going to just destroy Cruz under the standard `lie down' 2012 model had PC's foundations not been so under attack and them having to defend other quarters.
1) I wholeheartedly agree. The dude is smart too as you might expect and very well read. It surprised the hell out of me he was a Trump supporter. I asked him why not Cruz, who certainly is not "establishment" and he didn't have much of an answer other than "he would be OK." The other thing is that he expressed a very depressing belief that his kids are not getting the same types of economic opportunities he had when he was their age. Which as he kept talking elicited a fascinating populist rant from him. An interesting twist for someone that I know is more conservative than I.
2) I sense the anti-PC thing helping Trump but have no real data to support it but it makes perfect sense. The thing is, if Trump would eliminate his childish his middle school insults and stop trying to piss off people for the hell of it...and just stick to "telling it like it is, no BS, no PC" (my quote, not his) I think he would already have the nomination sewed up....for better or worse. But he can't help himself. And as others have pointed out he has no freakin clue as to how our government works other than it is coin operated. And his foreign policy knowledge and statements would be hilarious if they weren't so scary.
Lastly, I also sense the irony of Trump giving us Cruz because even the party leaders will see it as a better alternative. I do not at all buy into the sense of this board which thinks that the Republican establishment would rather lose the election to Hilary than have Cruz as the nominee. I just don't.
quote:
Bonfire aren't you a Trump supporter?
Oh dear heavens no. I support the downfall of the establishment, but not at the hands of Donald.
I think there are some positions he takes that merit consideration, and are feasible, but not worth electing an ignorant, arrogant narcissist again.
Jmo, if Trump hadn't thrown his trucker cap in the ring, Cruz would have owned the discontented vote and likely won going away before the convention. Trump didnt create the current environment or bring up any issues, he only capitalized on the trends already in place, the same trends that Cruz rode into the Senate and was poised to ride to the nomination.
That is why Cruz hasn't gone after Trump the way the Bush/Rubio wing of the party did. He doesnt want to be seen as attacking people because they are discontented and angry. He is a reform candidate, a real one, and the reasons for that discontent are what he is here to reform. Cruz is Trump, only with knowledge, principles, expertise, discipline, and emotional maturity.
Cruz built his ground game and already had a lot of delegates before the establishment began to reluctantly lend him their tepid hints of possible endorsements, and that is with Trump soaking up a lot of the anti establishment and strong immigration voters whose logical choice would otherwise have been Cruz.
That is why Cruz hasn't gone after Trump the way the Bush/Rubio wing of the party did. He doesnt want to be seen as attacking people because they are discontented and angry. He is a reform candidate, a real one, and the reasons for that discontent are what he is here to reform. Cruz is Trump, only with knowledge, principles, expertise, discipline, and emotional maturity.
Cruz built his ground game and already had a lot of delegates before the establishment began to reluctantly lend him their tepid hints of possible endorsements, and that is with Trump soaking up a lot of the anti establishment and strong immigration voters whose logical choice would otherwise have been Cruz.
That makes sense, but judging by how relecutant, EVEN NOW, the GOPe is / was to get behind Cruz to try to retrieve the situation, I disagree. I think the GOPe was actively going to align with the MSM to let Cruz be brought down and stopped. Cruz doesn't say quite the same electrifying things that Trump did at the get-go to start over-riding the built in control of narrative.
These guys still come across like want to put Kasich in, or anyone but Cruz.
I think it would have replayed prior script----- anyone but a moderate would be pushed over as an "extremist" or some far right winger (They were doing it to Cruz right before Trump took off)
That doesn't mean Cruz couldn't have overcome it and he would have won Texas and many others going away, but without Trump, all those batteries turned on Trump right now, both inside and outside the party, would have been chipping away at Cruz from the start.
Finally, and this is crucial- --- as much as we like Cruz, at the debates he wouldn't have been able to do the "suck all the media air out of the room" and get the mike time Trump has commanded. The forces of demonization and marginalization would have had an easier time with him. I think instead, we would be looking at Rubio, which is not super scary, but they were already trying to bury Cruz just after winning Iowa. Its Trump that upset all those gimmicks, imo.
These guys still come across like want to put Kasich in, or anyone but Cruz.
I think it would have replayed prior script----- anyone but a moderate would be pushed over as an "extremist" or some far right winger (They were doing it to Cruz right before Trump took off)
That doesn't mean Cruz couldn't have overcome it and he would have won Texas and many others going away, but without Trump, all those batteries turned on Trump right now, both inside and outside the party, would have been chipping away at Cruz from the start.
Finally, and this is crucial- --- as much as we like Cruz, at the debates he wouldn't have been able to do the "suck all the media air out of the room" and get the mike time Trump has commanded. The forces of demonization and marginalization would have had an easier time with him. I think instead, we would be looking at Rubio, which is not super scary, but they were already trying to bury Cruz just after winning Iowa. Its Trump that upset all those gimmicks, imo.
IDAGG,
This guy at present already there has proven very similar actually. Possibly more crucial is willingness to get the best to be on your team, and if if there had been a clear willingness to `catch up' on, try to get up to speed, as he goes. Carson showed signs of this, each time coming back a bit more informed on a subject last ambushed on----that was the approach to be doing.
quote:He has probably got that right. Rarely has a sitting generation been so willing to sabotage those ahead of them. We are quite likely to have the rare (and to be avoided thing) of offspring not having as much economic maneuverability or upward mobility as the parents. ACA is already creating that kind of pressure, not to mention all the debt piling.
1) I wholeheartedly agree. The dude is smart too as you might expect and very well read. It surprised the hell out of me he was a Trump supporter.... The other thing is that he expressed a very depressing belief that his kids are not getting the same types of economic opportunities he had when he was their age.
quote:Yes he would, fully agree. Even now, for many of us, its not enough to make vote for Hillary.
2) I sense the anti-PC thing helping Trump but have no real data to support it but it makes perfect sense. The thing is, if Trump would eliminate his childish his middle school insults and stop trying to piss off people for the hell of it...and just stick to "telling it like it is, no BS, no PC" (my quote, not his) I think he would already have the nomination sewed up....for better or worse.
quote:
But he can't help himself. And as others have pointed out he has no freakin clue as to how our government works other than it is coin operated. And his foreign policy knowledge and statements would be hilarious if they weren't so scary.
This guy at present already there has proven very similar actually. Possibly more crucial is willingness to get the best to be on your team, and if if there had been a clear willingness to `catch up' on, try to get up to speed, as he goes. Carson showed signs of this, each time coming back a bit more informed on a subject last ambushed on----that was the approach to be doing.
quote:I do. Because it doesn't cost them that much to just punt to 2020. They are worried about the Congress, but the kind of things people worry about Hillary doing won't effect the elite and rich. She is not Bernie in that sense. From their pov, their long delay in supporting Cruz, and conversely, how long kept trying to push a GOPe despite the sentiments, is the give-way. Just an opinion.
Lastly, I also sense the irony of Trump giving us Cruz because even the party leaders will see it as a better alternative. I do not at all buy into the sense of this board which thinks that the Republican establishment would rather lose the election to Hilary than have Cruz as the nominee. I just don't.
Remember The Astrodome
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quote:So you have never met any of them personally, but you know enough at this point to say factually that they are former Obama voters. Seems fair!
I have not met anyone personally. I have a few Facebook friends that seem to support him but they are not the sharpest tools in the shed. In fact I think some of them are probably former Obama voters. I try not to talk politics on Facebook at all though so I can't be sure.
I think you are right that Rubio would have gotten a lot farther. It probably would have been a three man race with bush, rubio, and cruz. In that scenario, rubio may have been able to walk the line between safe and conservative more successfully.
Ooooh, what a trendy thread.
OP you're right. You need to get out more.
quote:Yeah. Join a union or your local white supremacy club.
OP you're right. You need to get out more.
Triumph the insult comic dog recently went to a trump rally. Not his best work, but it does show the type of crowd.
I voted for him. I worry more about who can run things, who can surround themselves with the right people, and who can adapt to the situation, rather than worrying about trying to figure out what is really in their heads or what they think about every little thing or what is spewed back and forth in a debate. We are picking a president, not an award winning debater.
I don't think he is the best person, I think he will surround himself with the best people. I don't stand by the "angry Trump supporters" (in reality, Bernie supporters are the violent ones) saying "They toooook err jobs". I wouldn't even call myself a Trump supporter. Definitely wasn't my first choice when everything started. I've just said since I was of voting age that it would make more sense for a businessman to run things, rather than a puppet.
I view Trump as a high risk / high reward candidate, whereas we know we are getting "just a politician" with the remaining candidates on both sides. I probably would not have voted for him in years past, but after the last 8 years, I am willing to take that risk and view him as the only one with a chance (as small as it may be) to turn things around quickly.
Cruz is a viable option, is far and away the "best of the rest", and I will vote for him if he is the GOP choice. But again, he is just a groomed politician.
Flame away...
I don't think he is the best person, I think he will surround himself with the best people. I don't stand by the "angry Trump supporters" (in reality, Bernie supporters are the violent ones) saying "They toooook err jobs". I wouldn't even call myself a Trump supporter. Definitely wasn't my first choice when everything started. I've just said since I was of voting age that it would make more sense for a businessman to run things, rather than a puppet.
I view Trump as a high risk / high reward candidate, whereas we know we are getting "just a politician" with the remaining candidates on both sides. I probably would not have voted for him in years past, but after the last 8 years, I am willing to take that risk and view him as the only one with a chance (as small as it may be) to turn things around quickly.
Cruz is a viable option, is far and away the "best of the rest", and I will vote for him if he is the GOP choice. But again, he is just a groomed politician.
Flame away...
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