backintexas2013 said:
So are you now claiming the call summaries have been altered?
Gary Johnson said:
Man accused of kidnapping says "I let them go eventually" as a legal defense
Man accused of bank robbery says "I got caught" before completing the robbery
President withholding aid in an extortion scheme gets caught and is forced to comply with congressional foreign policy mandate.
Come on guys this isn't that hard.
I'll answer your question from my rationale, and then a Trump supporter's answer.Maroon Dawn said:Is Biden innocent of the corruption(?)Gary Johnson said:
Man accused of kidnapping says "I let them go eventually" as a legal defense
Man accused of bank robbery says "I got caught" before completing the robbery
President withholding aid in an extortion scheme gets caught and is forced to comply with congressional foreign policy mandate.
Come on guys this isn't that hard.
MetoliusAg said:I'll answer your question from my rationale, and then from a Trump supporter's rationale.Maroon Dawn said:Is Biden innocent of the corruption(?)Gary Johnson said:
Man accused of kidnapping says "I let them go eventually" as a legal defense
Man accused of bank robbery says "I got caught" before completing the robbery
President withholding aid in an extortion scheme gets caught and is forced to comply with congressional foreign policy mandate.
Come on guys this isn't that hard.
My opinion: it was corrupt.
A Trump supporter's rationale: Biden is innocent because:
1. There was no quid pro quo between Buresma and Joe Biden.
2. Even if there was a quid pro quo, it was legal.
3. People do quid pro quo's all the time.
4. Ok, maybe it was an illegal quid pro quo, but Joe Biden never fulfilled his end of the bargain, so it's "no harm & no foul" and therefore irrelevant.
5. Even if it was an illegal quid pro quo by Biden, it doesn't rise to the level of prosecutability.
6. I don't care if Biden took $1M in bribes. Policy is all that matters. (aka the Bo Darville rationalization)
7. Vice-President Biden was VP in the Executive Branch, and the EB is empowered by the Constitution to do foreign policy. So it was 100% legal.
Quote:
To act on the belief that we possess the knowledge and the power which enable us to shape the processes of society entirely to our liking, knowledge which in fact we do not possess, is likely to make us do much harm. In the physical sciences there may be little objection to trying to do the impossible; one might even feel that one ought not to discourage the overconfident because their experiments may after all produce some new insights.
MetoliusAg said:Nixon released transcripts too. And the tapes we got later after a court battle showed the "transcripts" had been edited to omit incriminating evidence of the crimes of Nixon and his Republican subordinates.Bo Darville said:
Key difference is Nixon fought to withhold his tapes of wrongdoing. Trump basically released his transcript immediately.
MetoliusAg said:I'll answer your question from my rationale, and then a Trump supporter's answer.Maroon Dawn said:Is Biden innocent of the corruption(?)Gary Johnson said:
Man accused of kidnapping says "I let them go eventually" as a legal defense
Man accused of bank robbery says "I got caught" before completing the robbery
President withholding aid in an extortion scheme gets caught and is forced to comply with congressional foreign policy mandate.
Come on guys this isn't that hard.
My opinion: it was corrupt.
But if I used the rationalizations and excuses Trump supporters used in this thread, it would look like this: Biden is innocent because
1. There was no quid pro quo between Buresma and Joe Biden.
2. Even if there was a quid pro quo, it was legal.
3. People do quid pro quo's all the time.
4. Ok, maybe it was an illegal quid pro quo, but Joe Biden never fulfilled his end of the bargain, so it's "no harm & no foul" and therefore irrelevant.
5. Even if it was an illegal quid pro quo by Biden, it doesn't rise to the level of prosecutability.
6. I don't care if Biden took $1M in bribes. Policy is all that matters. (aka the Bo Darville rationalization)
7. Vice-President Biden was VP in the Executive Branch, and the EB is empowered by the Constitution to do foreign policy. So it was 100% legal.
Maroon Dawn said:MetoliusAg said:Nixon released transcripts too. And the tapes we got later after a court battle showed the "transcripts" had been edited to omit incriminating evidence of the crimes of Nixon and his Republican subordinates.Bo Darville said:
Key difference is Nixon fought to withhold his tapes of wrongdoing. Trump basically released his transcript immediately.
Where is your evidence that the transcript we have is incorrect?
Quote:
Is Biden innocent of the corruption that Trump asked for help proving
Yes or No
[will disappear and not answer the question because ALL of this is to distract America from this very important answer]
You don't have to believe A). Shokin could still be dirty and the Biden's still guiltyGary Johnson said:Quote:
Is Biden innocent of the corruption that Trump asked for help proving
Yes or No
[will disappear and not answer the question because ALL of this is to distract America from this very important answer]
Joe Biden is clean here, the call to push out Shokin was multinational. Burisma was being protected by Shokin therefore put in greater danger with a non corrupt replacement.
It was certainly a bad look for H Biden to be involved, but to believe wrong doing by J Biden you'd have to believe:
A) Shokin was clean. He wasn't
B) Shokin waa going after Burisma. He wasn't
C) Tens of billions of dollars of IMF and EU aid was being withheld on the Shokin condition all for Hunter's gain. This position was shared by the US ambassador, state department, and president. All in an absurd "tail wags dog" conspiracy to protect a 6 figure salary board membership for the VP's son.
Gary Johnson said:
Move your own goal posts you don't need my help.
Did Trump demand anything of Ukraine that didn't help him personally? If he's really a corruption fighting superhero this should be the case. The "public announcement" requirement is the tell.
Quote:
You're essentially saying we can't investigate a suspicious and corrupt act by a Dem because all Dems are innocent angels trust us they said so themselves
But the truth is that Nancy Pelosi knows Ciaramella and Vindman don't work to galvanize public support, so she's going to have to have Schiff pivot to other stuff.Quote:
Vindman, who was a Major at the time, was sitting in one of the classrooms talking to the US and Russian Soldiers, as well as the young Officers & GS Employees about America, Russia, & Obama. He was apologetic of American culture, laughed about Americans not being educated or worldly, & really talked up Obama & globalism to the point of uncomfortable. He would speak w/the Russian Soldiers & laugh as if at the expense of the US personnel. It was so uncomfortable & unprofessional, one of the GS employees came & told me everything above. I walked over & sat w/in earshot of Vindman, & sure enough, all was confirmed. One comment truly struck me as odd, & it was w/respect to American's falsely thinking they're exceptional, when he said, "He [Obama] is working on that now." And he said it w/a snide 'I know a secret' look on his face. I honestly don't know what it meant, it just sounded like an odd thing to say. Regardless, after hearing him bash America a few times in front of subordinates, Russians, & GS Employees, as well as, hearing an earful about globalization, Obama's plan, etcI'd had enough. I tapped him on the shoulder & asked him to step outside. At that point I verbally reprimanded him for his actions, & I'll leave it at that, so as not to be unprofessional myself. The bottom-line is LTC Vindman was a partisan Democrat at least as far back as 2012. So much so, junior officers & soldiers felt uncomfortable around him. This is not your professional, field-grade officer, who has the character & integrity to do the right thing. Do not let the uniform fool youhe is a political activist in uniform.
I don't think Trump feels much pressure though. All of the coup shenanigans have been such epic fails, since January 2017, he is just gonna keep slowly hinting at declassification and waiting for Barr/Durham.Quote:
In effect, Ciaramella helped generate the "Putin fired Comey" narrative, according to the research dossier making the rounds in Congress, a copy of which was obtained by RealClearInvestigations.
Ciaramella allegedly argued that "President Putin suggested that President Trump fire Comey," the report said. "In the days after Comey's firing, this presidential action was used to further political and media calls for the standup [sic] of the special counsel to investigate 'Russia collusion.'"
...
What we're talking about now is taking us into a whole other class of objection to what the president has done. And there may be other there were 11 obstruction of justice provisions in the Mueller report. Perhaps some of them will be part of this.
MetoliusAg said:
For a career establishment R who allegedly isn't a part of a Deep State coup against Trump, Morrison's sworn deposition did a helluva job at:
-- providing new testimony which lays the illegal quid pro quo extortion/ bribery plot directly at the feet of Trump and Giuliani; and
-- confirming the sworn testimony of Taylor, Vindman, Hill, and Yovanovitch.
MetoliusAg said:
For a career establishment R who allegedly isn't a part of a Deep State coup against Trump, Morrison's sworn deposition did a helluva job at:
-- providing new testimony which lays the illegal quid pro quo extortion/ bribery plot directly at the feet of Trump and Giuliani; and
-- confirming the sworn testimony of Taylor, Vindman, Hill, and Yovanovitch.
Quote:
Tim Morrison, senior director for European affairs at the White House and the National Security Council, said that instead of being concerned with illegality in the call, he was wary about the memorandum of the conversation (MemCon) leaking to the media and how it would be perceived in Washington's polarized environment.
"I had three concerns about a potential leak of the MemCon: first, how it would play out in Washington's polarized environment; second, how a leak would affect the bipartisan support our Ukrainian partners currently experience in Congress; and third, how it would affect the Ukrainian perceptions of the U.S.Ukraine relationship," Morrison said, according to a copy of his opening statement obtained by CBS.
"I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed."
Morrison said he reviewed the transcript of the call released by the White House and said it "accurately and completely reflects the substance of the call."
fasthorses05 said:
I'd be willing to bet everyone can agree on this, and end the thread. Aishah Hasnie, the overnight anchor on Fox, is worth of overnight truces. BTW, born in Lahore, Pakistan. Yeah, shocked me too!
No, it isn't.MetoliusAg said:
Interesting.
