Everyone in our country, except for the truly disabled (and that is only a fraction of those on disability) has everything they are willing to work and sacrifice for. Too many want to live off those who do work and sacrifice however.

agdad4x said:

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the people who believe in systemic racism believe Biden honestly won the election

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Again, depends on who's "systemic racism" you are referring to. I'm referring to the left's system of racism. I believe in that, and I don't believe Biden honestly won the election,

30wedge said:

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Everyone in our country, except for the truly disabled (and that is only a fraction of those on disability) has everything they are willing to work and sacrifice for. Too many want to live off those who do work and sacrifice however.

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But, thanks to the unintended consequences of leftist policies, as a group, blacks have to work way harder and sacrifice way more to achieve the same thing.

Systemic useful idiots are real.

Sure.......it's called "affirmative action".

TEX465 said:

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30wedge said:

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Everyone in our country, except for the truly disabled (and that is only a fraction of those on disability) has everything they are willing to work and sacrifice for. Too many want to live off those who do work and sacrifice however.

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But, thanks to the unintended consequences of leftist policies, as a group, blacks have to work way harder and sacrifice way more to achieve the same thing.

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But, as a group, do they (or any group blaming their level of achievement on systemic racism) put for the same effort toward work and sacrifice? Do they place the same, or greater, emphasis on family? On education? On not committing crime?

OdessaAg said:

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As a "POC" I always laugh when a white guy tries to lecture me about systemic racism.......

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I can't lecture anyone about racism. But I can lecture a lot of people about complex systems. At a systems level, there's nothing different about systemic racism that systemic anything else.

And I can say that a byproduct of the left's "system" include POC thinking what you think. Seriously, the left has been pitching one solution after another since the '60s. Maybe that should be a clue.

But of course, I wouldn't expect you to listen to, or even hear me. Read "Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed" written by a black man if blacks are the only people qualified to offer an opinion to you.

Aggie4Life02 said:

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Systemic racism = I have no real examples of racism, so I'll make up non-falsifiable examples.

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You ever notice that whitey hating minorities that make these claims, if you ask an example they can never point to a concrete example. Systemic rascism is like Bigfoot, 100 % real 100% out there. Can any Bigfoot nuts take you to Bigfoot ??? Of course not !!
Can these activists ever show you systemic rascism ?? Of course not !!!

What IS real is 'manufactured racism'

titan said:

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TEX465 said:

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titan said:

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TEX465 said:

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titan said:

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FIRST and Foremost, going to the above --- In layman's terms for a thread, WHAT does `systemic' mean? And how is it different from claiming legal discrimination laws (other than the reverse kind like AA and minority quotas) exist?

What is the difference?

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By "systemic" I'm using the general definition of being a general emergent property of many interdependent things. I am not referring to explicit laws that treat people differently based on race, because although some people use this definition, this is not what is meant when leftists speak of "systemic racism." The interdependencies I'm referring to do not have to be "by design" but can be (and usually are) unintentional.

In the examples I gave in the OP, only number 3 is explicitly about race

Quote:

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3) Liberal politicians and a media that blame the consequences of all the above on American ideals and encourage continuous rebellion of black youth, who resist education and other behaviors that they consider "acting white."

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Factor #3 is probably is the catalyst that causes the vicious cycle of unintended consequences all of the other policies and positions to orbit around black Americans rather than around the poor generally.

Think of it this way, #3 above makes race an "attractor" in the system.

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Okay, good. Thanks. Would you give an unrelated example, it could even refer to a natural event, of your bold? It is starting to come together a way to shorthand it.

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These are all emergent properties of some system, i.e., systemic:

1) heart disease
2) climate
3) football record
4) the courses of rivers

The details of the video below are subject to debate, but it gets the point across

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TEX465,

Thanks for the reply, and especially that fascinating video. Kudos to the choice, utterly neutral and fascinating to boot. It doesn't even matter if the details are true-- like you said, it gets the point across.

I now understand how you are are apparently using the term. Is this correct:

Systemic racism refers to present-day-lingering DOWNSTREAM effects from the era of Institutionalized racism. Those effects are as established, and yet also changeable again in turn, like the riverbanks were.

Second, you agreed that the Dem-MSM is the likely catalyst for why the effects persist in aggregating or the "attractor" factor operates.

With this understood, what would be the most lingering downstream effect that has been harmful in your opinion?

For example, we know it was not mothers out of wedlock, because the welfare and LBJ policies created that AFTER institutional racism ended. The black family destruction is caused by the two Presidencies between 1963-1974 . So that is one thing that is no due to the 19th C and Jim Crow eras as much. What is, in your opinion, that still lingers today?

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Thanks. Glad you liked the video.

That's not my point, exactly. My point is not just that Dem-MSM caused effects to persist. It's that Dem-MSM policies and propaganda created the system that has harmed modern blacks. Remember, the trends of black families, employment, education, and income were much better leading up to the '60s than they are now.

To be clear, most of the policies affect all poor people. However, the repetitive Dem-MSM message to blacks that "white America is keeping you down" is just enough to prevent their escape (the attractor). In other words, this messaging is the linch-pin that binds them to the vicious cycle created by the system of leftist policies.

Complex systems are dispositional. It's impossible to make specific predictions. The best you can do is talk about where they are heading in the short run. So I can't possibly know which effects will linger the longest or be the most harmful. I can say that everything being proposed today will make matters worse, not better.

B-1 83 said:

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Sure.......it's called "affirmative action".

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Affirmative action is one that I missed in my original list. It is absolutely a leftist policy that has unintended consequences that interact with all the other stupid policies of the left.

But to be clear, systemic racism doesn't have to include policies that explicitly reference race. That wouldn't be "systemic" racism at all. It would be explicit institutionalized racism.

thirdcoast said:

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Systematic Racism is real until you actually try to identify it in laws, policy, training manuals, charters, or anywhere else that qualifies as a "system".

We also won't here about it or have "difficult convos" until 2024.

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To be clear, I'm not a fan of the phrase "systemic racism" either. Racism has been clearly defined forever to be about a person's attitude. Racism implies animus.

The idea of "systemic racism" is a political term created to attach animus to where there is none. It's pure politics.

I prefer the term "systemic bias" or even "systemic discrimination". So when I say "systemic racism" I'm using what has emerged as the common term, but I don't attach ill will or intent to the term.

Having said that, you don't need to identify explicitly laws, policies, or other documents for there to be systemic racism, any more than the fed needs to explicitly pass laws for prices to rise in an economy.

annie88 said:

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Systemic racism in America is not real. This is a fabrication of the left and the media. Do racist people still exist in our country? Yes they always have and they always will and that goes for both sides not just the typical oh whites hate everybody that's not white. I see more racism towards whites today than I've ever seen in my entire life.

But this idea of systemic racism that they are automatically at a disadvantage and constantly being berated, or thought of as bad or not given the same opportunities in life as everyone else does? Or being shot down in the street simply because they're black not because they're criminals and disobeying instructions?

No.

So no you're wrong, systemic racism in America does not exist.

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"If I don't believe in it, it must not exist"

TEX465 said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Sure.......it's called "affirmative action".

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Affirmative action is one that I missed in my original list. It is absolutely a leftist policy that has unintended consequences that interact with all the other stupid policies of the left.

But to be clear, systemic racism doesn't have to include policies that explicitly reference race. That wouldn't be "systemic" racism at all. It would be explicit institutionalized racism.

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How about "no child left behind"? It is the ultimate racism in its actions and a perfect illustration of "the soft racism of lower expectations".

B-1 83 said:

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TEX465 said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Sure.......it's called "affirmative action".

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Affirmative action is one that I missed in my original list. It is absolutely a leftist policy that has unintended consequences that interact with all the other stupid policies of the left.

But to be clear, systemic racism doesn't have to include policies that explicitly reference race. That wouldn't be "systemic" racism at all. It would be explicit institutionalized racism.

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How about "no child left behind"? It is the ultimate racism in its actions and a perfect illustration of "the soft racism of lower expectations".

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I agree.

OdessaAg said:

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As a "POC" I always laugh when a white guy tries to lecture me about systemic racism.......

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How dare you assume his ethnicity? Racist much?

Ags2013 said:

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annie88 said:

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Systemic racism in America is not real. This is a fabrication of the left and the media. Do racist people still exist in our country? Yes they always have and they always will and that goes for both sides not just the typical oh whites hate everybody that's not white. I see more racism towards whites today than I've ever seen in my entire life.

But this idea of systemic racism that they are automatically at a disadvantage and constantly being berated, or thought of as bad or not given the same opportunities in life as everyone else does? Or being shot down in the street simply because they're black not because they're criminals and disobeying instructions?

No.

So no you're wrong, systemic racism in America does not exist.

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"If I don't believe in it, it must not exist"

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Not at all, actually.

Is there racism in the world? Absolutely. Here in this country? Yes. But to say it is systemic is just not true. Anyone regardless of race, color, sex can go from poverty to rich in one generation in the United States. It is the greatest country ever created for an individual's pursuit of happiness. Is it perfect? No. But it is the best that humans have come up with.

TEX465 said:

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OdessaAg said:

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As a "POC" I always laugh when a white guy tries to lecture me about systemic racism.......

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I can't lecture anyone about racism. But I can lecture a lot of people about complex systems. At a systems level, there's nothing different about systemic racism that systemic anything else.

And I can say that a byproduct of the left's "system" include POC thinking what you think. Seriously, the left has been pitching one solution after another since the '60s. Maybe that should be a clue.

But of course, I wouldn't expect you to listen to, or even hear me. Read "Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed" written by a black man if blacks are the only people qualified to offer an opinion to you.

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My original comment was meant to be a sarcastic dig at the leftist mantra that, unless you are a part of said aggrieved
group, than anyone outside of the group should have no opinion or say.

A few examples:
-Unless you have a uterus, you have no say in woman's choice
-Not black? No say on black struggles or issues in America
-Not LGBTQ? How dare you even utter the word "gender dystrophin"
-Not Latinx? You have no say in immigration issues

I think any anyone has a right to make opinions on any of these topics and aren't reserved for a select few.

And BTW-not black but am "Latinx" lol so I'm not sure I can relate to the book you referenced.

There is less evidence of systemic racism than there is of voter fraud.

I believe many are talking past the OP thinking its some MSNBC spin.

Notice this:

Quote:

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Quote:

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That's not my point, exactly. My point is not just that Dem-MSM caused effects to persist. It's that Dem-MSM policies and propaganda created the system that has harmed modern blacks. Remember, the trends of black families, employment, education, and income were much better leading up to the '60s than they are now.

To be clear, most of the policies affect all poor people. However, the repetitive Dem-MSM message to blacks that "white America is keeping you down" is just enough to prevent their escape (the attractor). In other words, this messaging is the linch-pin that binds them to the vicious cycle created by the system of leftist policies.

Complex systems are dispositional. It's impossible to make specific predictions. The best you can do is talk about where they are heading in the short run. So I can't possibly know which effects will linger the longest or be the most harmful. I can say that everything being proposed today will make matters worse, not better.

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That looks very easily demonstrated imo, and is exactly what we see today?

Gaw617 said:

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Is there racism in the world? Absolutely. Here in this country? Yes. But to say it is systemic is just not true. Anyone regardless of race, color, sex can go from poverty to rich in one generation in the United States. It is the greatest country ever created for an individual's pursuit of happiness. Is it perfect? No. But it is the best that humans have come up with.

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It is the greatest country ever created. But the left is, intentionally or not, doing it's damndest to screw it up.

And although it is possible that "anyone regardless of race, color, sex can go from poverty to rich in one generation", to say that a black kid with the same capabilities as a white is as likely to do so is fantasy.

By no fault of their own, the black kid:

• is less likely to be able to get an entry-level job
• is less likely to have the financial resource they need
• goes to crapper schools
• is more likely to face peer-pressure to underperform
• is more likely to be admitted to a college that they aren't academically ready for.
• is more likely to be told that the system is against them (by the media, Sharpton, Obama, etc.)

Whose fault is all of this? Leftists. Or more specifically, the "systems" created by leftists.

Everyone, stop caring about the fabricated bogeyman of racism. It's all bull***** No one actually cares about racism. They just use it because you'll do whatever they want if they call you racist.

Ah, that reminds of a post to add to the politically incorrect thread.

To wrap up. It's racist to say that blacks are incapable of succeeding in America every bit as much as whites. They know better than anyone that they are disadvantaged by "the system". So when whites say "there is no systemic racism", they lose all credibility with blacks.

But where most blacks have it wrong is knowing which system holds them back and who created it. After all, leftists tell them it's white America and capitalism that get in their way. That's where conservatives need to set things straight. We need to point to the system created by the left.

Creating a prosperous future absent of racial strife depends on it. It still might not be enough. But it's the approach that has the best chance. Because it's the truth.

Bye.

TEX465 said:

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To wrap up. It's racist to say that blacks are incapable of succeeding in America every bit as much as whites. They know better than anyone that they are disadvantaged by "the system". So when whites say "there is no systemic racism", they lose all credibility with blacks.

But where most blacks have it wrong is knowing which system holds them back and who created it. After all, leftists tell them it's white America and capitalism that get in their way. That's where conservatives need to set things straight. We need to point to the system created by the left.

Creating a prosperous future absent of racial strife depends on it. It still might not be enough. But it's the approach that has the best chance. Because it's the truth.

Bye.

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There will never be an end to racial strife. Humans are conditioned to otherize people with non-optimal or different traits.

Fat people will always be thought less of, regardless of the body positivity ridiculousness. Gay relationships will always be viewed as a joke. People from minority races or religions will always have a tougher time fitting in.

Systemic racism is integrated into critical race theory inspired by progressive application of identity politics to drive political conflict.

Systemic racism isn't real.

It doesn't matter what race you are in America, everyone can get a job, work hard, earn, invest, and build wealth. There is no racial test on any of the investing apps online.

Stop making excuses, start taking accountability.

Reject CRT.

Harold@DCCab said:

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Systemic racism isn't real.

It doesn't matter what race you are in America, everyone can get a job, work hard, earn, invest, and build wealth. There is no racial test on any of the investing apps online.

Stop making excuses, start taking accountability.

Reject CRT.

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Systemic racism as they put it no.

Affirmative action is systemic racism.

Just like people telling me that there are no differences between race, physical fitness, and intelligence are idiots.

You ever see a Asian person win the 5000m sprint? Nope. As a matter of fact Liu Xiang is the only record holder in a track competition (110m hurdles) that is Asian. 20km walk doesn't count because nobody watches it.

Does that mean I qualify for affirmative action so I can get into A&M via a sports scholarship for track an field as an Asian? Nope. I'd get laughed out the school before I even applied.

"Systemic racism"is fake as shidt.

The identity politics/propaganda that the Democratic party relies on to maintain power is systemic racism. The claim of white privilege and critical race theory is systemic racism.

Everything the Democrats accuse conservatives of doing are things they themselves are actually doing.