Kamala Harris explaining the anger in the way a total moron like her would.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRfqW1tH/

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None of this addresses the root cause of the problem, which I think is the increasingly high tuition that schools charge that is primarily taken on by individuals. Public schools should be primarily funded by the government. Your taxes pay for your local elementary, middle, and high schools. Why does this not include higher education too if it is basically mandatory to have if you want a decent paying job?

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The root cause of the problem is when the federal government got involved in the loan "business", using tax dollars instead of allowing the market to set the rates.

Do you think that a bank would have given a loan to a woman's studies major, whose income would be questionable to finding a job to pay off the loan, of course not.


The second root of the problem is when the federal government got involved, handing out loans like candy, this gave a huge OK for colleges and universities to raise tuition and fees, knowing that they will get paid.

And finally, the thrid root of the problem is that women make up 2/3rds of what is owed and the main recipients were small liberal arts private colleges that survived by having huge tuition, knowing again that the federal government will hand out these loans with a smile on their faces.

Also, the federal government has no business in the running of colleges and universities.

Ag87H2O said:

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When a person borrows money and agrees to pay it back, they should do it. The end.

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I'll start off by saying I agree with this. You take on an obligation, it's your responsibility to handle it.

BUT… You could also say that when you take up farming or start a business, you have your ducks lined up before you start and then you sink or swim. Close to 40% of American farmers count on (or hog Waller in some cases) with an average of $25 billion in subsidies a year. Every year. Amazon has taken nearly $5 billion in subsidies over the past decade, Ford received well over a billion from the States of Kentucky and Tennessee to build and operate plants in those States. Cities offer tax incentives, discounts on land, etc to attract businesses. Not every business or farmer collects those goodies. The folks getting $10K off on whatever total they owe are basically getting an education subsidy. Obviously, those who pay their own way are left with only the sense of achievement that they did it on their own (unless you define financial support from mom and dad as a sort of subsidy). Pretty much like the 60+% of farmers who go it alone without State or Federal help.

Like most issues it's not as simple and uncomplicated as it might initially seem.

AggiePops said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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When a person borrows money and agrees to pay it back, they should do it. The end.

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I'll start off by saying I agree with this. You take on an obligation, it's your responsibility to handle it.

BUT… You could also say that when you take up farming or start a business, you have your ducks lined up before you start and then you sink or swim. Close to 40% of American farmers count on (or hog Waller in some cases) with an average of $25 billion in subsidies a year. Every year. Amazon has taken nearly $5 billion in subsidies over the past decade, Ford received well over a billion from the States of Kentucky and Tennessee to build and operate plants in those States. Cities offer tax incentives, discounts on land, etc to attract businesses. Not every business or farmer collects those goodies. The folks getting $10K off on whatever total they owe are basically getting an education subsidy. Obviously, those who pay their own way are left with only the sense of achievement that they did it on their own (unless you define financial support from mom and dad as a sort of subsidy). Pretty much like the 60+% of farmers who go it alone without State or Federal help.

Like most issues it's not as simple and uncomplicated as it might initially seem.

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Having the federal government foot the bill for the interest while ur in school is a "subsidy to get you started" similar to what you pointed out. They don't need additional subsidies on top of it.

That being said I 100% disagree that these debts cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

If you want to control college costs make student loans a debt that can be discharged in bankruptcy. Get the government out of guaranteeing the loans. And let private banks underwrite these.

This would allow the banks to look at your degree plan, grades, etc and decide if u will likely graduate and if the degree will allow the person to pay it back.

That would get rid of alot of these worthless degrees. If students can't get loans for the degree, colleges will get rid of these departments. Also, colleges would have to find a way to decrease costs as banks will not give out a 250k loan to a no name college for a degree in basket weaving and thus students won't be able to afford tuition at that institution.

It's a moral question. Someone has to pay. Person A sells debt to person B. Whose obligation is it then to make person B whole? Person C?

What happens to the price of things when the person paying is not a party to the transaction? Quantity demanded goes up, and so does the price.

How does it make sense to force the person who did NOT agree to take out the loan or benefit from it, to pay for the one who did?

It doesn't. It doesn't make any sense at all?

Win At Life said:

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How does it make sense to force the person who did NOT agree to take out the loan or benefit from it, to pay for the one who did?

It doesn't. It doesn't make any sense at all?

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It makes sense only to those individuals that benefit and those with the power to give that benefit for power.

They can care less as to who pays as long as it not them.

Welcome to Socialism which steals from Peter to pay Paul.

This squashes the lib talking points

Taxes = taking earned money from those who earned it..

tax cuts = taking less money from those who earned it

Loan “forgiveness” = taking money from those who earned and giving to those who didn’t

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

— Igor Schatz (@Copernicus2013) August 25, 2022

Dems call the education lenders loan sharks

Dems then give loan sharks 300 billion dollar advance payment

All the universities should have to shoulder the burden from their endowments. Not us.

Ghost of Bizbee said:

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All the universities should have to shoulder the burden from their endowments. Not us.

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Why should they? That's like saying if someone can't make his car payment to his bank, then the dealer who sold it should shoulder that burden.
The person who signed the promissory note is the person who should shoulder that burden. If he defaults, then it's on he lender and the lender. The government should completely exit the student loan subsidy business.

MooreTrucker said:

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I'm not reading all the crap here because it's meaningless yap.

You took out a loan, you should pay it back. Period. End of story.

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Damn right!
If you took out a loan to attend Trump University you should pay it off as stupid tax.

Having read through this sometimes nauseating thread, I have questions...

If the Red Queen is to be believed, Congress must legislate such an expenditure. And Joe has made the promise...how does he sign off, or authorize 87,000 IRS agents to sign off?

And to whom is the check written? The bank who disbursed the loan funds? The Fannie May / Freddie Mac affiliated quasi-governmental organization who disbursed it?

Or is it written to the ex-student with an MS in Gender Studies, who hasn't made a loan payment in 18 months, who may also be part of the 1-in-6 families who are behind, possibly WAYYYY behind, on household utilities bills, delinquent Mortgages or other loans?

I bet it somehow gets written to the slovenly ex-student (or possibly current-), who will take the Scarlett O'Hara approach (I'll worry about that tomorrow), and immediately book a first class ticket to Aruba.

And the band played on...

SeMgCo87 said:

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Having read through this sometimes nauseating thread, I have questions...

If the Red Queen is to be believed, Congress must legislate such an expenditure. And Joe has made the promise...how does he sign off, or authorize 87,000 IRS agents to sign off?

And to whom is the check written? The bank who disbursed the loan funds? The Fannie May / Freddie Mac affiliated quasi-governmental organization who disbursed it?

Or is it written to the ex-student with an MS in Gender Studies, who hasn't made a loan payment in 18 months, who may also be part of the 1-in-6 families who are behind, possibly WAYYYY behind, on household utilities bills, delinquent Mortgages or other loans?

I bet it somehow gets written to the slovenly ex-student (or possibly current-), who will take the Scarlett O'Hara approach (I'll worry about that tomorrow), and immediately book a first class ticket to Aruba.

And the band played on...

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Then check is written directly to the lender. This is wealth transfer from the lowly taxpayer to the financial institutions and serving companies holding the notes.

If you have student debt, and accept the "loan forgiveness" offered by the government, that tells me all that I need to know about you.

This is the advice that I'm giving to college students and those with existing debt, as it will definitely be a job interview question going forward.

BTHO tu forever!!!

Goodnight Irene said:

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Because it is a contract.

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Comprehende?

Sarge 91 said:

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SeMgCo87 said:

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Having read through this sometimes nauseating thread, I have questions...

If the Red Queen is to be believed, Congress must legislate such an expenditure. And Joe has made the promise...how does he sign off, or authorize 87,000 IRS agents to sign off?

And to whom is the check written? The bank who disbursed the loan funds? The Fannie May / Freddie Mac affiliated quasi-governmental organization who disbursed it?

Or is it written to the ex-student with an MS in Gender Studies, who hasn't made a loan payment in 18 months, who may also be part of the 1-in-6 families who are behind, possibly WAYYYY behind, on household utilities bills, delinquent Mortgages or other loans?

I bet it somehow gets written to the slovenly ex-student (or possibly current-), who will take the Scarlett O'Hara approach (I'll worry about that tomorrow), and immediately book a first class ticket to Aruba.

And the band played on...

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Then check is written directly to the lender. This is wealth transfer from the lowly taxpayer to the financial institutions and serving companies holding the notes.

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Thereby relieving the debt of people who voluntarily assumed it originally. And they took on that debt to give them a one up on their fellow working citizens. I guess they were right, in the same way that a career criminal is right, knowing he can brazenly commit crimes, but the moment he has information for the government, he gets a reduced sentence.

For a multitude of reasons, student loan forgiveness was the right thing to do. This will take the handcuffs off of millions of borrowers to begin building their lives. The loans were pretty much forgiven anyways with the forbearance period

Neehau said:

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For a multitude of reasons, student loan forgiveness was the right thing to do. This will take the handcuffs off of millions of borrowers to begin building their lives. The loans were pretty much forgiven anyways with the forbearance period

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Forbearance equals 900billion?

If you believe the student loan forgiveness is in any way right, you in in favor of all out socialism; its that simple. Those of us who reject socialism, will never find any of your reasons valid, and vice versa I am afraid.

DarkBrandon0111 said:

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which is why college should be 100% nationalized. The government cannot support and compete simultaneously with a hungry profit monster.

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Go back to slinging drinks, Sandy.

DarkBrandon0111 said:

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which is why college should be 100% nationalized. The government cannot support and compete simultaneously with a hungry profit monster.

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Why not go the opposite way and get government out of it completely. The corrupting force in this case is the government backing of the loans. Without their backing, the lenders wouldn't give loans for more money than they thought students would be able to pay back, because they have their own skin in the game. Without government backing, nobody would be loaning anybody $150+k for a gender studies degree.

Neehau said:

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For a multitude of reasons, student loan forgiveness was the right thing to do. This will take the handcuffs off of millions of borrowers to begin building their lives. The loans were pretty much forgiven anyways with the forbearance period

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Those handcuffs just became a millstone around the neck of a lot of other people. How thick do you have to be to miss that point?

Squadron7 said:

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Neehau said:

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For a multitude of reasons, student loan forgiveness was the right thing to do. This will take the handcuffs off of millions of borrowers to begin building their lives. The loans were pretty much forgiven anyways with the forbearance period

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Those handcuffs just became a millstone around the neck of a lot of other people. How thick do you have to be to miss that point?

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So when are we going to have small business loan forgiveness to take the yoke off the neck of all the small business owners? And what about trade school cost rebates for all the working men and women out there? If we are going to print money to buy votes, might as well go ahead and buy all of them.

ETA: Meant this to respond to Neehau

What has the importation of low skilled workers done for wages since 1973?

Neehau said:

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Okay, Bernie.

Proc92 said:

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What has the importation of low skilled workers done for wages since 1973?

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I don't think that is relevant. What is relevant is the exorbitant cost of education today and the current student loan system not being enough to educate the next generation.

Neehau said:

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Proc92 said:

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What has the importation of low skilled workers done for wages since 1973?

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I don't think that is relevant. What is relevant is the exorbitant cost of education today and the current student loan system not being enough to educate the next generation.

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Of course you don't.

The cost of higher education is the dependent variable. The independent variable is the amount of money available for higher education loans. That is why they move together. Even more available loan money just means even higher prices.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Dems call the education lenders loan sharks

Dems then give loan sharks 300 billion dollar advance payment

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Actually $600B

Neehau said:

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What about all of the current programs in use to entice people to work in undesirable areas in return for student loan forgiveness? We have people teaching in inner cities, Drs in rural areas, military members, etc that provide services for loan forgiveness.

And in regards to your graphic, who in the hell makes $800 a week as a college grad? No one with a real major or a real job. That's less than $40k a year. Are you using the 60-70% of NON COLLEGE grads salary info in this country to get to that number? Most Americans do not go to college, and even fewer have a degree. I'm sure they love this policy of forgiveness and the wide open border that continues to decay their earnings.

The housing and rent problems are a direct result of supply and demand. Shut down the border - Biden just added 4 million plus people into the rental market in the past year alone. And immigration control also will help your income crisis. Immigrants hurt the incomes of minorities and working class the most. The government should be working on fixing the supply chain issues (hello, Mayor Chestfeeding Pete).

Tuition became a mess when it was deregulated and universities are now slush funds. The government gives universities billions of dollars annually. THE UNIVERSITIES should be on the hook for forgiveness, not taxpayers.

Neehau said:

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There is no way that wages today are less than 50 years ago.

TAMU1990 said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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Dems call the education lenders loan sharks

Dems then give loan sharks 300 billion dollar advance payment

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Actually $600B

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Which goes directly to the universities whose faculties and administrators whose political donations go to Democrats and Dem PACS 98% of the time.

If this were the Mob they'd get hit with RICO.

AGDAD14 said:

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If you have student debt, and accept the "loan forgiveness" offered by the government, that tells me all that I need to know about you.

This is the advice that I'm giving to college students and those with existing debt, as it will definitely be a job interview question going forward.

BTHO tu forever!!!

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Dumb.

Do you pay more taxes than is required of you? This is the same thing.

Loan forgiveness is terrible policy. The availability of loans is backfiring making degrees way more expensive and strapping graduates with debt. Both issues will be corrected if we eliminated easy loan access.