Per multiple news outlets, Dan Patrick is reserving Bill 2 for vouchers (Bill 1 is the budget), and he's petitioning Abbott to declare it an emergency item so they don't have to wait until March to start on it.

I don't know how long it takes something like this to wind its way through the legislature, but we might have this settled before the next school year starts.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/lieutenant-governor-dan-patrick-school-choice-session-priority/3692836/

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/11/08/dan-patrick-texas-senate-school-choice-vouchers/

JDUB08AG said:

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I'm here for the Facebook suburban housewives posts trashing vouchers

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Not if they've already got kids in private school. They'll just quietly appreciate it with a sour look on their faces.

Can someone explain how this works? If we move to private state pays a portion? What are the income thresholds and the amounts per child?

The detail I need to see and understand is the impact of special education and expectations of service. For example in today's world say a kid qualifies for speech services and attends a private school. The private school doesn't offer speech or have a SLP on staff because they aren't required to. The public school the kid is zoned to is legally obligated to provide services.

Does the obligation to provide services follow the voucher? Will the zoned public school continue to get screwed? Or will we just not provide special education services anymore?

Does this also kill the absolutely **** robinhood system?

My view on this issue is pretty simple. White libs dominate private schools. Big city parents who pay a lot of money for private schools and fly BLM flags and vote for Beto. Most private schools are very white. They don't want non-white kids in their schools. Hence, the lib opposition to vouchers.

The folks in public education are going bat**** crazy over this.

Are they transferable from one public school to another?
Confusing part is one family pays property tax for public education no matter how many children they have. 5 kids, same property tax as 1 kid.
So if all 5 kids went to private schools how does that work?

White libs do not dominate private schools since COVID. Lots of conservatives went private or Home School since that time.

Will it be means tested? Religious restrictions?

BMX Bandit said:

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HumbleAg04 said:

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The detail I need to see and understand is the impact of special education and expectations of service. For example in today's world say a kid qualifies for speech services and attends a private school. The private school doesn't offer speech or have a SLP on staff because they aren't required to. The public school the kid is zoned to is legally obligated to provide services.

Does the obligation to provide services follow the voucher? Will the zoned public school continue to get screwed? Or will we just not provide special education services anymore?

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Why would a parent needing speech therapy for their child leave a school with the therapy to go to a school that didn't offer it?

How is the zoned public school getting screwed?

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Perhaps they get speech therapy, but the rest of the school atmosphere and curriculum is $#&@.

Would be surprised how many educators are for this. My wife is a recent retired teacher and all in for school vouchers. The public schools are top heavy and have completely lost all control of the students. Discipline has disappeared and administrators cover it up daily.

Most private schools will not be able to handle a big increase in attendance and they ready don't want too.

Aceswimmer09 said:

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Can someone explain how this works? If we move to private state pays a portion? What are the income thresholds and the amounts per child?

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Establisjed private schools with waiting lists will over the next 4 years increase tuition making the voucher meaningless if the voucher is for $10,000 instead of tuition going up a $1000 a years it will go up $3,500

some church affiliated private schools will be started given that the churches have the buildings that are not being used maybe some of these schools will provide a quality education

Some churches will start " schools " and will "enroll" kids that are already home schooling and the church and parents will split the voucher

Worst possible outcome in low income parents both urban and rural are incentivized to pull their kids out of public schools and the parents get to keep the voucher money while they " home school " the children of course if this happens the parents will be incentivized to keep having more kids because ion top of getting WIC money they'd also get money to home school their children

Muy said:

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4-7 years too late after I went broke paying for private school for my sons.

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If you were able to keep your kids out of the public schools indoctrination programs and lack of focus on core curriculum the benefits you'll receive are significant. You're playing the long game.

agAngeldad said:

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Most private schools will not be able to handle a big increase in attendance and they ready don't want too.

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That's why ultimately every school should be privatized and the costs will go way down from traditional private schools. The religious private schools could stay smaller and keep their higher prices, but the rest would come down.

BMX Bandit said:

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HumbleAg04 said:

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The detail I need to see and understand is the impact of special education and expectations of service. For example in today's world say a kid qualifies for speech services and attends a private school. The private school doesn't offer speech or have a SLP on staff because they aren't required to. The public school the kid is zoned to is legally obligated to provide services.

Does the obligation to provide services follow the voucher? Will the zoned public school continue to get screwed? Or will we just not provide special education services anymore?

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Why would a parent needing speech therapy for their child leave a school with the therapy to go to a school that didn't offer it?

How is the zoned public school getting screwed?

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In current system zoned public school has to go out of their way to schedule services for a student at another campus or face legal repercussions (thanks Fed). On the bright side the tax revenue is going to the school system providing the services, on the down side the state is stealing $10MM / yr from the district.

In a voucher system if that tax revenue leaves the school but it is still mandated by our wonderful government to provide services so now they have to more with less resources.

All the discussion is around private schools and ****ty public schools, what happens to communities with a good public school system? Can they limit how many people want to attend their campuses, do kids have to apply? How does the district plan for attendance numbers every year? (I hope killing the Department of Education is part of this shift and impacts this conversation) There are lots of actual details needed to make this work and I've yet to see an actual fleshed out plan.

I'm 100% in favor of overhauling public education, killing the administration staff that eat up all the funds, and abolishing the Federal Department of Education, but the simplistic takes on the voucher system by everyone isn't going to solve the actual detailed issues it will create.

Does Texas rush into this with the potential of massive federal changes to education? Do we slow play it to encompass our plan into that new world? Schools are funded through property taxes, why not eliminate that and fund schools differently?

I support the voucher idea on its face and vote accordingly, but it is just far more nuanced of an issue than people want to acknowledge.

Jeeper79 said:

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JDUB08AG said:

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I'm here for the Facebook suburban housewives posts trashing vouchers

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Not if they've already got kids in private school. They'll just quietly appreciate it with a sour look on their faces.

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Unless they do an overhaul, those who already have kids in private school likely won't qualify for the voucher.

Quote:

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In a voucher system if that tax revenue leaves the school but it is still mandated by our wonderful government to provide services so now they have to more with less resources.

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If the kid leaves with the revenue, the service is no longer needed

Quote:

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All the discussion is around private schools and ****ty public schools, what happens to communities with a good public school system?

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Parents will keep their kids there. "Choice". Key word.

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Can they limit how many people want to attend their campuses,

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Yes

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do kids have to apply?

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No

ts5641 said:

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Are they transferable from one public school to another?
Confusing part is one family pays property tax for public education no matter how many children they have. 5 kids, same property tax as 1 kid.
So if all 5 kids went to private schools how does that work?

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In the last proposal, no, the funds were to be used for private education only.

At one point the proposed $ amount was $10k per child. If all five kids went to private school, then that family would receive $50k.

Look a states that have been doing it for over a decade. Florida and Indiana have been doing it successfully. I don't know as much about Florida's, but the one in Indiana has been solid. All of the concerns you hear about what it will do to public education or the price of private education are all fear mongering.

Many states have already done it. It can't be that nuanced. It's reality.

Do you really think Abbott and all the reps who support it are being simplistic?

Bobaloo said:

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My view on this issue is pretty simple. White libs dominate private schools. Big city parents who pay a lot of money for private schools and fly BLM flags and vote for Beto. Most private schools are very white. They don't want non-white kids in their schools. Hence, the lib opposition to vouchers.

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I think it's more accurate to say that parents with the means put their kids in private school. This would include both sides of the aisle. We could then argue the reasons why conservatives do it and why liberals do it.

As someone who does not have children, I'm selfishly more interested in not having to pay 50% of my property taxes towards educating kids. I do feel better about it now that we've moved out of Dallas and to a very conservative small town, but the whole setup sucks.

However, I will again say that I don't know how you solve the funding side of this. The state is going to tax us one way or the other for education - it's just a matter of how you want to pay for it....property or state income.

It would also be awesome if we could kill the DOE and fully return schooling to local authorities and then purge about 90% of the administration layer in public schools.

The House has always been the roadblock for vouchers. Will be interesting to see if the influx of more conservative Rs will move the needle, or if the Ds and a handful Rs will be able to block it once again.

Weren't you saying this wouldn't be a priority? Whoops

BMX Bandit said:

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Weren't you saying this wouldn't be a priority? Whoops

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I don't think I said that, but I'll own if I did.

I do recall recently pointing out that it's still on the Republican Party Platform as an issue and someone else laughed at me that it was #84 on the list and therefore didn't matter.

That person is the one who said it wouldn't be a priority.

G-Town Cracker said:

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The House has always been the roadblock for vouchers. Will be interesting to see if the influx of more conservative Rs will move the needle, or if the Ds and a handful Rs will be able to block it once again.

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Specifically, it was rural R's who blocked it.

Phatbob said:

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Look a states that have been doing it for over a decade. Florida and Indiana have been doing it successfully. I don't know as much about Florida's, but the one in Indiana has been solid. All of the concerns you hear about what it will do to public education or the price of private education are all fear mongering.

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I'm still trying to educate myself on this because the potential pros/cons I believe are very school / location dependent. But for Indiana, I thought this was interesting:
In the last state budget, Republican lawmakers dedicated 36 percent of new education funds to voucher students who make up just 7 percent of all students. That left just 64 percent of new money for public schools that educate 93 percent of Hoosier students.