Dan Scott said:

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https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/documents/technology-evaluation/ote-data-portal/country-analysis/3028-2021-statistical-analysis-of-u-s-trade-with-mexico/file

https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/documents/technology-evaluation/ote-data-portal/country-analysis/2948-2021-statistical-analysis-of-u-s-trade-with-canada/file

Combined, the U.S. imports $800B from Mexico and Canada. Does 25% tariffs mean $200B annual federal revenue assuming trade remains flat.

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So the price of crude used here increases, then the price of crude we export increases?

Dan Scott said:

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We export 1.2MBD of petroleum product to Mexico. If you want to F up Mexico, you limit that. ExxonMobil and Valero will get pissed off though.

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Won't the price of the light crude we sell to Mexico increase? It is a world market so I guess the world price for all crude goes up?
Any experts here that can answer and what effects that has on taxes on the profits from the exported oil?

DarkBrandon01 said:

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very strategic and surgical and definitely won't mess up the economy

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You don't even know what a woman is. You think men can get pregnant and that gay cartoon p0rn books belong in elementary school libraries. But we're supposed to let you shower us with your infinite wisdom on a thing such as expansive and complex as the economy? LOLOLOL

HARD NO

Old McDonald said:

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so trump clearly still thinks the tariffed country pays the tariffs (lol) and the economically illiterate are cheering it on as 4D chess

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No he doesn't.
Weird point, last time he implemented tariffs inflation did not increase and by the end of his term it was 1.7%. The inflation experienced during his administration was primarily due to the COVID insanity.

No Spin Ag said:

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rathAG05 said:

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It's about time. We have leverage and have been way too chicken **** to use it. I will gladly pay more for goods if we get these kind of results. At least I know my money would be actually benefitting the country.

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Here's to those of us who look at prices for goods going even higher than they have over the past four years and go, "Damn, it sure feels good to not feel having even less money in our savings and wallets. Suck it Lol poors"

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Dear God.

I don't know how many times I have to explain it to yall.

The 3 areas of inflation that are hurting lower and middle class people the most are:

1) groceries
2) rent
3) energy/gas

None of these 3 will be affected by tariffs. AT. ALL.

Noone from the lower to middle class gives a **** if the cost of a TV or an iPhone goes up 20-25% because these people are struggling to keep food on the table.

The only people these tariffs are going to hurt are upper class people and the wealthy.

Not. The. Poor.

If the tariffs are going to affect you so much you are throwing a fit over them you are not poor or even middle class.

Ozzy Osbourne said:

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I get Mexico and China, but why Canada?

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19,000 illegals every single month enter from Canada

Many, if not most, large importers applied for and received exemptions for various line item (HTSUS Classification numbers of products) from the first round of Trump retaliatory tariffs. The section 301, ones I think they are.

Smaller companies and low volume importers were the ones hit with the tariffs hard.

For years Chineese companies have been conducting "first sale" transactions by forming US entities, getting an import bond for about $500, and delivering goods DDP in the US at lower declared valuations. The income tax generated in the US, creatively handled, is less than some of the upper end duty rates. That mechanism costs the US a literal crap ton of money and allows Chinese companies to skirt duties and hammer competitors from this hemisphere.

Boring down on customs fraud, to which the large US retailers are gladly complicit but in theory not responsible, would do more to hammer China and help competition than these supposed Tariffs. The big retailers will find ways around the Tariffs.

To me this is just a typical Trump pandering to his base move that will have no true effect. Just like the wall BS that was basically pork barrel crap.

If/when Trump lights a fire under Customs ass to hammer import fraud is when I know he is actually serious about the Chineese menace.

Canada? Welp, up go the lumber costs.

Ags4DaWin said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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rathAG05 said:

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It's about time. We have leverage and have been way too chicken **** to use it. I will gladly pay more for goods if we get these kind of results. At least I know my money would be actually benefitting the country.

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Here's to those of us who look at prices for goods going even higher than they have over the past four years and go, "Damn, it sure feels good to not feel having even less money in our savings and wallets. Suck it Lol poors"

---

Dear God.

I don't know how many times I have to explain it to yall.

The 3 areas of inflation that are hurting lower and middle class people the most are:

1) groceries
2) rent
3) energy/gas

None of these 3 will be affected by tariffs. AT. ALL.

Noone from the lower to middle class gives a **** if the cost of a TV or an iPhone goes up 20-25% because these people are struggling to keep food on the table.

The only people these tariffs are going to hurt are upper class people and the wealthy.

Not. The. Poor.

If the tariffs are going to affect you so much you are throwing a fit over them you are not poor or even middle class.

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Disagree... Mexico is the largest single source of U.S. horticultural imports. In 2023, Mexico supplied 63 percent of U.S. vegetable imports and 47 percent of U.S. fruit and nut imports. source

I don't like tariffs as a consumer because things will cost more. As an American I like Trump's plan. Hitting countries economically will help change their behavior. If I have to pay more for stuff at Walmart to stop immigration and fentanyl then sign me up!

Quad Dog said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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rathAG05 said:

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It's about time. We have leverage and have been way too chicken **** to use it. I will gladly pay more for goods if we get these kind of results. At least I know my money would be actually benefitting the country.

---

Here's to those of us who look at prices for goods going even higher than they have over the past four years and go, "Damn, it sure feels good to not feel having even less money in our savings and wallets. Suck it Lol poors"

---

Dear God.

I don't know how many times I have to explain it to yall.

The 3 areas of inflation that are hurting lower and middle class people the most are:

1) groceries
2) rent
3) energy/gas

None of these 3 will be affected by tariffs. AT. ALL.

Noone from the lower to middle class gives a **** if the cost of a TV or an iPhone goes up 20-25% because these people are struggling to keep food on the table.

The only people these tariffs are going to hurt are upper class people and the wealthy.

Not. The. Poor.

If the tariffs are going to affect you so much you are throwing a fit over them you are not poor or even middle class.

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Disagree... Mexico is the largest single source of U.S. horticultural imports. In 2023, Mexico supplied 63 percent of U.S. vegetable imports and 47 percent of U.S. fruit and nut imports. source

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Sadly most lower and middle class people aren't eating much fruits and vegetables at all so still not as big of a hit that you think it is. Do you know who DOES eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, upper middle class and above.

These tariff discussions wouldn't be necessary if Democrats followed their sworn oaths of office. Blaming these on Trump are short sighted.

Ags4DaWin said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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rathAG05 said:

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It's about time. We have leverage and have been way too chicken **** to use it. I will gladly pay more for goods if we get these kind of results. At least I know my money would be actually benefitting the country.

---

Here's to those of us who look at prices for goods going even higher than they have over the past four years and go, "Damn, it sure feels good to not feel having even less money in our savings and wallets. Suck it Lol poors"

---

Dear God.

I don't know how many times I have to explain it to yall.

The 3 areas of inflation that are hurting lower and middle class people the most are:

1) groceries
2) rent
3) energy/gas

None of these 3 will be affected by tariffs. AT. ALL.

Noone from the lower to middle class gives a **** if the cost of a TV or an iPhone goes up 20-25% because these people are struggling to keep food on the table.

The only people these tariffs are going to hurt are upper class people and the wealthy.

Not. The. Poor.

If the tariffs are going to affect you so much you are throwing a fit over them you are not poor or even middle class.

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You keep explaining it, it coninues to not be true.

Materials cost will drive home prices up and get passed down to rent.

Import costs for everything from supplies to packaging will.hammer food costs, as will lost revenue being passed on.

Energy is not going to magically drop.


It's almost like supply chains are interconnected, and the added costs roll downhill to the bottom.

Mexican lady threatening to counter with her own tariffs. I say we tariff them regardless! This commie female -and she is a full bore commie - wants war, let's give he one!. For the record.. "Exports to the US make up almost a third of Mexico's GDP -- 29%. While US exports to Mexico make up 1.1% of our GDP. "

Quote:

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President Claudia Sheinbaum suggested Tuesday that Mexico could retaliate with tariffs of its own

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https://apnews.com/article/mexico-tariffs-trump-retaliate-sheinbaum-fac0b0c6ee8c425a928418de7332b74a?taid=6745e1ebe1836c00018984a9&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

Well done.

AMERICA!!

Now let's abolish H1B program that is mercilessly raped and sodomized by corporations to get cheap slave labor.

infinity ag said:

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Well done.

AMERICA!!

Now let's abolish H1B program that is mercilessly raped and sodomized by corporations to get cheap slave labor.

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Do something that will cost companies money and cheap labor?!

Do you Capitalist, bro?

No Spin Ag said:

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infinity ag said:

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Well done.

AMERICA!!

Now let's abolish H1B program that is mercilessly raped and sodomized by corporations to get cheap slave labor.

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Do something that will cost companies money and cheap labor?!

Do you Capitalist, bro?

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I will give you some time to think deeply about what you just said.

(we are all capitalist, but we are nationalist first. Selling out to China, India and Mexico in the name of capitalism is why we are here today in this situation where everyone is taking advantage of us)

Mexico could be a much nicer place and a terrific economic partner if they could just get their house in order crime wise and defer to law and order instead of bribery and corruption as a way of doing business.

infinity ag said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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infinity ag said:

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Well done.

AMERICA!!

Now let's abolish H1B program that is mercilessly raped and sodomized by corporations to get cheap slave labor.

---

Do something that will cost companies money and cheap labor?!

Do you Capitalist, bro?

---

I will give you some time to think deeply about what you just said.

(we are all capitalist, but we are nationalist first. Selling out to China, India and Mexico in the name of capitalism is why we are here today in this situation where everyone is taking advantage of us)

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So, country before profits at the expense of other countries taking advantage of us. I can so respect that.

Are you thinking that it would be best if we went back to pre-NAFTA ways?

Honestly, if the Neocons, war hawks, and MIC are insistent that we get involved in foreign conflicts to keep the war machine going, I'd rather roll through Mexico and try to clean up that mess of all the crooks and cartels than just sending billions to Ukraine. Mexico is far more important to us than so many other places we spend a lot of attention on.

BadMoonRisin said:

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Old McDonald said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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A 25% tax hike on Americans. No thanks, libs.

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The products won't even make it to shelf because the market will adjust and source from non-tarriff impacted similar goods.

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the net effect is that the consumer pays more. simple example:

heb buys avocados for a $1 from mexico and sells them for $1.50. now there's a 25% tariff so those $1 avocados now cost $1.25, so they buy avocados from peru instead for $1.10 and sell them for $1.60.

the consumer now pays 10 cents more for avocados. this is why tariffs are inflationary.

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Oh no, ten cents? Might as well let Mexico keep treating our southern border like the piss-ditch at burning man then

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at least now we're acknowledging tariffs are inflationary. we had two years of 8% inflation and people treated it like the Great Depression, people care way more about their bills than they do the border.

Old McDonald said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Old McDonald said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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A 25% tax hike on Americans. No thanks, libs.

---

The products won't even make it to shelf because the market will adjust and source from non-tarriff impacted similar goods.

---

the net effect is that the consumer pays more. simple example:

heb buys avocados for a $1 from mexico and sells them for $1.50. now there's a 25% tariff so those $1 avocados now cost $1.25, so they buy avocados from peru instead for $1.10 and sell them for $1.60.

the consumer now pays 10 cents more for avocados. this is why tariffs are inflationary.

---

Oh no, ten cents? Might as well let Mexico keep treating our southern border like the piss-ditch at burning man then

---

at least now we're acknowledging tariffs are inflationary. we had two years of 8% inflation and people treated it like the Great Depression, people care way more about their bills than they do the border.

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Then get rid of the wind mills and solar and drill for more energy.

No Spin Ag said:

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infinity ag said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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infinity ag said:

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Well done.

AMERICA!!

Now let's abolish H1B program that is mercilessly raped and sodomized by corporations to get cheap slave labor.

---

Do something that will cost companies money and cheap labor?!

Do you Capitalist, bro?

---

I will give you some time to think deeply about what you just said.

(we are all capitalist, but we are nationalist first. Selling out to China, India and Mexico in the name of capitalism is why we are here today in this situation where everyone is taking advantage of us)

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So, country before profits at the expense of other countries taking advantage of us. I can so respect that.

Are you thinking that it would be best if we went back to pre-NAFTA ways?

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I am not familiar with NAFTA so I won't give an opinion before I read up...

My basic point is this. A country is healthy only if its citizens are healthy and employed and contributing. Now this is an ideal scenario but we should try to get close. Our companies create jobs and people work. Companies prosper and make money and so do the people who in turn buy products and the economy keeps going.

Now imagine if someone disturbs this situation by adding a very large number of people to this mix. It disrupts the balance. It drives down the salaries. Corps make money, which makes the execs rich but citizens poor. They cannot buy products. CEOs get rich, foreign workers get rich and locals get poor. Many foreign people are here temporarily so live on very low cost places. To compete with this, you have to live like that too, reducing the quality of life in America. It is lose lose for the citizens of a country.

Also, don't be fooled that "we import the brightest and best". I have worked with people from India, many are trash. Only a small % are good. Many are just shipped here and don't have a clue about anything, we have to train them at our expense.

In 2024, we have too many good qualified citizens chasing too few good jobs. So we don't need foreign workers. So suspend H1B for a few years until this balance returns. US companies get benefits of operating from the US and have a responsibility towards the country just like citizens do. I, as an American citizen cannot work against the interests of the US. If everyone did that, the country would sink.

Corps won't do that on their own. So the Govt has to step in and make them. I am also in favor of tariffs as needed. Other countries apply tariffs on us, why not us apply it on them?

Dan Scott said:

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He says the tariffs will be in my place until drugs stop coming in and the illegal alien invasion stops. Additional 10% on China as a penalty for not stopping fetanyl. He says both Mexico and Canada have the power to easily solve the problem and demands that they do or pay a price. Executive orders for January 20

Futures down about .33% since the Truth. They dropped quickly but have stabilized. Interesting to see how market reacts.

JUST IN: Donald Trump to implement 10% tariffs on all Chinese goods due to drug crisis. pic.twitter.com/Gls52NdxbY

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) November 26, 2024

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Proof that Mexico is gonna pay for it.

#WINNING

How is mexico "paying for" a tarrif that we have to pay....

Old McDonald said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

---

Old McDonald said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

A 25% tax hike on Americans. No thanks, libs.

---

The products won't even make it to shelf because the market will adjust and source from non-tarriff impacted similar goods.

---

the net effect is that the consumer pays more. simple example:

heb buys avocados for a $1 from mexico and sells them for $1.50. now there's a 25% tariff so those $1 avocados now cost $1.25, so they buy avocados from peru instead for $1.10 and sell them for $1.60.

the consumer now pays 10 cents more for avocados. this is why tariffs are inflationary.

---

Oh no, ten cents? Might as well let Mexico keep treating our southern border like the piss-ditch at burning man then

---

at least now we're acknowledging tariffs are inflationary. we had two years of 8% inflation and people treated it like the Great Depression, people care way more about their bills than they do the border.

---

No one is arguing otherwise. The debate should be about what sectors will see it and to what degree.

Ag_of_08 said:

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How is mexico "paying for" a tarrif that we have to pay....

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86D Chess?

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Old McDonald said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Old McDonald said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

A 25% tax hike on Americans. No thanks, libs.

---

The products won't even make it to shelf because the market will adjust and source from non-tarriff impacted similar goods.

---

the net effect is that the consumer pays more. simple example:

heb buys avocados for a $1 from mexico and sells them for $1.50. now there's a 25% tariff so those $1 avocados now cost $1.25, so they buy avocados from peru instead for $1.10 and sell them for $1.60.

the consumer now pays 10 cents more for avocados. this is why tariffs are inflationary.

---

Oh no, ten cents? Might as well let Mexico keep treating our southern border like the piss-ditch at burning man then

---

at least now we're acknowledging tariffs are inflationary. we had two years of 8% inflation and people treated it like the Great Depression, people care way more about their bills than they do the border.

---

No one is arguing otherwise. The debate should be about what sectors will see it and to what degree.

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First sectors where you "see it" will be the sectors tariffed, assuming an itemized list and not actually a blanket tariff. Regardless, it will impact everything, with time. Fiscally liberal dumb****ery always does.

Ag_of_08 said:

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How is mexico "paying for" a tarrif that we have to pay....

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"tarrif"

infinity ag said:

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No Spin Ag said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

infinity ag said:

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Well done.

AMERICA!!

Now let's abolish H1B program that is mercilessly raped and sodomized by corporations to get cheap slave labor.

---

Do something that will cost companies money and cheap labor?!

Do you Capitalist, bro?

---

I will give you some time to think deeply about what you just said.

(we are all capitalist, but we are nationalist first. Selling out to China, India and Mexico in the name of capitalism is why we are here today in this situation where everyone is taking advantage of us)

---

So, country before profits at the expense of other countries taking advantage of us. I can so respect that.

Are you thinking that it would be best if we went back to pre-NAFTA ways?

---

I am not familiar with NAFTA so I won't give an opinion before I read up...

My basic point is this. A country is healthy only if its citizens are healthy and employed and contributing. Now this is an ideal scenario but we should try to get close. Our companies create jobs and people work. Companies prosper and make money and so do the people who in turn buy products and the economy keeps going.

Now imagine if someone disturbs this situation by adding a very large number of people to this mix. It disrupts the balance. It drives down the salaries. Corps make money, which makes the execs rich but citizens poor. They cannot buy products. CEOs get rich, foreign workers get rich and locals get poor. Many foreign people are here temporarily so live on very low cost places. To compete with this, you have to live like that too, reducing the quality of life in America. It is lose lose for the citizens of a country.

Also, don't be fooled that "we import the brightest and best". I have worked with people from India, many are trash. Only a small % are good. Many are just shipped here and don't have a clue about anything, we have to train them at our expense.

In 2024, we have too many good qualified citizens chasing too few good jobs. So we don't need foreign workers. So suspend H1B for a few years until this balance returns. US companies get benefits of operating from the US and have a responsibility towards the country just like citizens do. I, as an American citizen cannot work against the interests of the US. If everyone did that, the country would sink.

Corps won't do that on their own. So the Govt has to step in and make them. I am also in favor of tariffs as needed. Other countries apply tariffs on us, why not us apply it on them?

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Honestly, it looks like we agree on most things, save the tarrifs. Don't get me wrong, i really won't feel them, like many of us, but it just seems like it can open a can of worms that might affect those who can't afford to take the hit.

Still, I appreciate you going into detail on how you see things. Here's to hoping it all turns out okay.

Kind of shocked that people, especially on this board, still get so easily riled up over sh** like this. In case you didn't learn the first time, this is how Trump negotiates. He is signaling to Canada and Mexico that "America Last" ends in January.

As noted above, he has so much more leverage over them they will ever have over us. It's not even close.

I also fully expect him to again threaten a massive tax on remittances to Mexico as a means of offsetting the cost of illegal immigration, which the R's should probably impose regardless.

These things get their attention. Time to right the ship.

infinity ag said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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How is mexico "paying for" a tarrif that we have to pay....

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"tarrif"

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I made a typo typing on my phone.... you got me.

To what degree? Have you factored in that the selling partner may have to lower their price before tariffs to remain competitive? Besides, if the Democrats did their jobs as sworn, we wouldn't be in this predicament that forces us to leverage our trade partners. Elections have consequences.

I'm not surprised that the Mexican government would push back on restraining their cartels. It's an odd side to take but i get it. They would rather lose 1/3 of their legal economy to keep the cartels operating. Then they know the next step - our operators gonna operate. And we don't need to create WMD claims, just publish the known ties between the Mexican government and the cartels that are effecting at war with the US.