Ukraine EU Political Summary

3,266 Views | 49 Replies | Last: 3 days ago by pagerman @ work
Premium
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AG
Let me know if I'm missing anything…

EU: we don't respect America, they need to pay for Ukraine war while we brag about our free healthcare

Trump and Vance: Campaign on EU isn't pulling their weight, they need to up their military spending vs GDP

Vance: goes to Europe and says they need to pull their weight

EU: says they don't respect America we are going to have a EU only meeting to discuss greater reliance on ourselves and our own interests

Summary from Democrats: OMG the World doesn't respect us and are leaving us out while they increase their spending and involvement in their own interests?

So Trump is getting what he campaigned on and he is losing?
FriendlyAg
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Anytime you fire someone or ask them to foot their portion of the bill, they aren't going to like you. That doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.
Burrus86
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Thats's it! That's the breaking point! Guantanamo for all the libs.
pfo
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If push comes to shove, Trump could just pull our troops out of Europe, pull our funding of NATO and tell them America will start fighting again when Russia finishes with them and comes for us. We hold the cards here, not the people we are defending.
Azul88
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Premium said:

Let me know if I'm missing anything…

EU: we don't respect America, they need to pay for Ukraine war while we brag about our free healthcare

Trump and Vance: Campaign on EU isn't pulling their weight, they need to up their military spending vs GDP

Vance: goes to Europe and says they need to pull their weight

EU: says they don't respect America we are going to have a EU only meeting to discuss greater reliance on ourselves and our own interests

Summary from Democrats: OMG the World doesn't respect us and are leaving us out while they increase their spending and involvement in their own interests?

So Trump is getting what he campaigned on and he is losing?
I regret that I can only one blue star for this assessment.
Get Off My Lawn
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It'd be real easy for Trump to say "I'm of the mind that those who haven't met their collective inflation adjusted NATO minimum defense funding obligation aren't obligated article 5 protection."

Sure, congress could declare war & force Trump to send troops (lol - as if congress does that anymore) - but a statement on how the executive interprets the treaty shouldn't violate the congressionally signed treaty itself & would give the entire EU a very abrupt wake up.
nortex97
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Polish FM talking trash about how they control the Nobel Prize. That's the EU aristocracy in a nutshell, angry, powerless, just want their war to continue.
Artimus Gordon
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Giving it to Brock Obama for no particular reason pretty much rendered that award as a leftist sham. Same thing with Biden's presidential medal of freedom. Hitller would have gotten one posthumously if Kamala had won the election.
nortex97
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Bonus points for spelling 'Hitler' in a way I would expect Kamala to have done.


Might the US pull forces from the Baltics and even withdraw from Nato while normalizing relations with Moscow? Where do we sign?
Quote:

Instead of having a US Supreme Allied Commander Europe, that role could be transitioned to a German General given the fact that Germany is the most populous European NATO (excluding Turkey) with the largest economy, particularly if the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party wins the German national elections this weekend since it supports a return to conscription to increase Germany's conventional military strength.

While British, French and Polish leaders might object to the appointment of a German Supreme Allied Commander Europe, they should not be as it would only serve to more fully integrate Germany into a united Europe and collective security arrangement and might encourage Europe's largest economy to increase its defense spending to compensate for a potential withdrawal of all US ground troops before the end of President Trump's term in office. That said, I have been advocating for Germany to develop its own modest nuclear arsenal since the 1990's and with the Trump administration working to incentivize Europe to pick up the burden for its own defense, that idea is more sensible now than ever.
Quote:

While speaking with former Fox News host Tucker Carlson at a rally just days after his re-election, Trump demonstrated his clear understanding of the existential threat to America posed by the Sino-Russian alliance, which Biden's war in Ukraine has caused to become ever closer, and his determination to do whatever is necessary to break it apart. "The one thing you never want to happen is you never want Russia and China uniting," he said. "I'm going to have to un-unite them, and I think I can do that, too. I have to un-unite them."

Ultimately, the best way to disrupt the Sino-Russian alliance would be to end the war in Ukraine and forge a new Russo-American entente, modeled on the Entente Cordiale of 1904 that ended centuries of military conflict and great power competition between Britain and France. That agreement defined spheres of influence that clearly delineated the lines between both great powers to prevent future conflicts.

To do so, the U.S. will first need to terminate the war as swiftly as possible to restore peace and stability to Europe, thus ending the potential threat of Russian nuclear escalation that could cost the lives of hundreds of millions. It should also establish a new security architecture that benefits all European nations under the principle of "indivisible security" with the aim of providing security to all parties instead of promoting needless conflict with Russia by continued NATO imperial expansion.
More at the link.
doubledog
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The EU is the new Wehrmacht of Europe.
American Hardwood
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AG
This is the EU version of abortion loving feminists saying they are going to stop having sex to resist those with Christian moral sensibilities.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
aggiehawg
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AG
We have troops in the Baltics? Did I miss a memo?
nortex97
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Yes, 17-20 in each.
rgag12
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So in that model, the Russians would want control over eastern and Central Europe while America controls the western hemisphere, and China controls Asia?

That's going to be a tough pill to swallow for a country that's dominated the world for 40-50 years. Economically I'm not sure the American people are ready for the consequences
pagerman @ work
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Given that your opening premise is completely and utterly wrong, I'd say your analysis falls a bit short.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
nortex97
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I suspect we don't agree on much of 'that model' or the definitions of control, domination, and 'good outcomes.'

I don't want to control/dominate Eastern Europe, I want peace and trade deals that work to our mutual advantage, as well as an end to the massive carnage Biden's proxy war has produced.
BTKAG97
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Step 1: Aquire Greenland

Step 2: Migrate all US controlled nukes in Europe to Greenland

Step 3: Evacuate all US troops from Europe

Step 4: Sell all US owned military bases in Europe to the highest bidder
titan
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S
nortex97 said:

Yes, 17-20 in each.
EASTERN Europe still has character worth our defense. Not really true of Western any more.

Baltics are fine.
FrioAg 00:
Leftist Democrats "have completely overplayed the Racism accusation. Honestly my first reaction when I hear it today is to assume bad intentions by the accuser, not the accused."
BTKAG97
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nortex97 said:

Yes, 17-20 in each.
Are those soldiers stationed at thr embassies? After all, there's a blue dot in Russia as well.
nortex97
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I'm not disparaging their character but their leadership is horrid (Von Der Leyen, Kallas, etc), and we have zero strategic interests in stationing troops there.

I don't care what happens within/to the Baltic countries, one iota.
cupcakesprinkles
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When London becomes the new caliphate Russia and China will be out of there.
rgag12
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I suppose ignorance is bliss.
titan
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S
cupcakesprinkles said:

When London becomes the new caliphate Russia and China will be out of there.
Or can wish Russia takes it from them in turn. An Orthodox Crusade. More and more its looking
like that would be better. They don't value freedom anyway on the trend they are. We upholding very
repressive governments doesn't make sense.
FrioAg 00:
Leftist Democrats "have completely overplayed the Racism accusation. Honestly my first reaction when I hear it today is to assume bad intentions by the accuser, not the accused."
rgag12
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cupcakesprinkles said:

When London becomes the new caliphate Russia and China will be out of there.


I don't think Russia will tolerate the Muslims in Europe. Once they have their puppets installed that dynamic is going to change quick.
nortex97
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That map was just the permanently stationed (PCS) ones, so maybe. But, 'indefinite rotations' of combat units have been happening the past few years as well. On a 'permanent basis', we've had units rotate in periodically.
Quote:

The U.S. Army has deployed rotational battalions in Lithuania, including approximately 500 soldiers from armored units, which are stationed at a base in Pabrad. These forces are part of NATO's efforts to strengthen military presence in the region, particularly in response to threats from Russia.
This is counterproductive and a waste of money/resources. The only intent is to saber rattle vs. Moscow.


Quote:

The U.S. military presence in Latvia includes various units such as the 3rd Combat Aviation Brigade, which has deployed aircraft like CH-47 Chinooks and UH-60 Blackhawks, as well as rotational units from the 173rd Airborne Brigade and the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit. These forces participate in joint exercises and training to enhance interoperability with Latvian and NATO allies.

nortex97
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And, a productive round 1. Sanctions lifted.



Great to see/hear.
nortex97
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LOLOL. Europe in a nutshell.
cupcakesprinkles
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rgag12 said:

cupcakesprinkles said:

When London becomes the new caliphate Russia and China will be out of there.


I don't think Russia will tolerate the Muslims in Europe. Once they have their puppets installed that dynamic is going to change quick.
It will be a very interesting scenario for sure.
Rossticus
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So what did we get in exchange?
Touchscreen
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Rossticus said:

So what did we get in exchange?
I think the grand plan is that this will drive a wedge between any alliance between Russia and China. If I was a Ukranian I think I would start brushing up on my Russian language proficiency, because Ukraine is dead meat once this agreement is completed.
aggiehawg
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Hmm. Interesting since Turkey controls the Straits.
Quote:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said that Ankara supports the territorial integrity, sovereignty, and independence of Ukraine. He also expressed his readiness to host negotiations between Ukraine, Russia, and the United States to resolve the war in Turkey.
Quote:

Erdogan made this statement at a press conference on February 18 following a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. In particular, he commented on the words about possible "difficult decisions" regarding the territories of Ukraine, which were made by the Turkish Foreign Minister during the Munich Security Conference.
Quote:

"We have always supported, and the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine has always been important to us. Turkey has declared its respect for the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Territorial integrity is something we cannot give up. Neither is sovereignty. That is why we need peace to be established as soon as possible," Erdogan said.
LINK

Pretty strong language.
Teslag
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Touchscreen said:

Rossticus said:

So what did we get in exchange?
I think the grand plan is that this will drive a wedge between any alliance between Russia and China. If I was a Ukranian I think I would start brushing up on my Russian language proficiency, because Ukraine is dead meat once this agreement is completed.
nortex97
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Everything I'd have hoped for: trade, lower energy costs, and peace.
Quote:

Sergey Lavrov's main statements:

We agreed that a process for Ukrainian regulation will be formed in the near future, the US will announce who will represent Washington, as soon as we know who it will be, we will immediately designate our participant in the process.

We did not just listen, we heard each other.

US Secretary of State Rubio emphasized the need for Russia and the US to be guided by national interests, Moscow agrees with this.

Russia and the US agreed that everything should be done to combine efforts in geopolitical spheres and economic affairs.

There is reason to believe that the American side has begun to better listen to Russia's position.

Consultations between Russia and the US on Ukraine will be regular after both sides appoint negotiating teams.

Lavrov said that he had not seen reports that Russia and the US allegedly agreed on a three-stage plan for settling Ukraine during the negotiations.

The appearance of troops from the same NATO countries, but under a foreign flag, the flag of the European Union or the national flag, is unacceptable.

Russia and the United States agreed that it is necessary to remove obstacles to mutually beneficial economic cooperation.

The United States proposed introducing a moratorium on attacks on energy facilities in the Russian Federation and Ukraine. Thus, the attack by Ukrainian drones on an oil pumping station in the Krasnodar Territory is, in fact, an attack on the energy infrastructure of Kazakhstan. Russia has never endangered Ukraine's energy supply system. Moscow only strikes those facilities that serve the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
nortex97
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AG
Turkey's economic position is 'precarious' to say the least. Erdogan wants peace out of self-interest.
aggiehawg
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AG
WOW! Didn't know it was that bad!
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