will have to see, but a microburst or downdraft of wind could certainly have created a hard landing. that wouldn't be all on the pilots.

the new twitter video out though certainly looks like a hard landing which collapses the gear. super fortunate that everyone got out of this, and a good reminder to keep yourself buckled up tight!

I think that's from this Airways magazine post. Caution on language.

🔴 A newly released video shows the exact moment of the impact of Delta Connection flight 4819 at YYZ

by airmainengineer#deltaairlines #avgeek #accident pic.twitter.com/2BqnqPyxVn

— Airways Magazine (@airwaysmagazine) February 18, 2025

Honestly, it didn't even look like it was sinking 'that hard' to me, but no clue.

Only watched on my phone...

No flare, I think so three wheel sets hit at almost the same time. BB will confirm WoW times. Going to watch again to see the control see the surfaces.

Edit to add... There was a bounce and I thought I saw the right wing to dip. Can't tell the angle of the wind from the little bit of blowing snow in the video, but VASAviation had ATC saying it was from 270, or 40* off the right front. Could dip the wing a little, maybe. But that video looked smooth other than the pancake roll up ending

sts7049 said:

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will have to see, but a microburst or downdraft of wind could certainly have created a hard landing. that wouldn't be all on the pilots.

the new twitter video out though certainly looks like a hard landing which collapses the gear. super fortunate that everyone got out of this, and a good reminder to keep yourself buckled up tight!

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I can't imagine a downdraft/microburst in those weather conditions in the last video. The cockpit voice and data recorders will be interesting to analyze.

Also interesting that the person in the right hand seat in the jet holding short recorded that landing.

Where Blancolirio with the ADSB data loaded into Google Earth?

Juan!! We need you!

Wonder if the runway being white messed up the pilots depth perception.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Only watched on my phone...

No flare, I think so three wheel sets hit at almost the same time. BB will confirm WoW times. Going to watch again to see the control see the surfaces.

Edit to add... There was a bounce and I thought I saw the right wing to dip. Can't tell the angle of the wind from the little bit of blowing snow in the video, but VASAviation had ATC saying it was from 270, or 40* off the right front. Could dip the wing a little, maybe. But that video looked smooth other than the pancake roll up ending

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It looks like he landed first on the right wheel which then appears to collapse causing the wing strike and subsequent roll.

For the non-aviators what does "flare" mean?

When I heard "plane upside down" I figured it crashed that way. But in a case like that I doubt anyone would survive.

The landing looks routine until just before it contacts the ground. As other said, probably a hard hit and maybe the landing gear collapsing. It's surprising just how quickly it just rolls over.

When the nose of the airplane is raised just prior to touchdown which slows the descent rate creating a softer landing.

Just a theory (and pardon my minimal knowledge of aviation) but couldn't an error in the ILS or field altitude entered wrong cause something like a "slam" and lack of flare? Say the airport was at 250 feet above sea level but it was entered into the flight computer at 150 feet above...wouldn't the plane/pilot just "Fly" the plane into the ground thinking they had another 100 feet to go? Obviously snow covered ground would further confuse from what pilot sees vs. what the flight computer is calling out?

Or have I watched Die Hard 2 one to many times!?

Right side gear looks to have collapsed first, or was plane pushed off the runway and right side gear landed in soft snow just off the plowed runway?

Miracle nobody died in that.

There's a rumor that the captain flowed to Delta then couldn't pass initial training then "flowed back" to Endeavor. If true, that's not a good look for delta.

Endeavor is a regional owned by Delta. Someone hired at Endeavor will eventually "flow" to Delta, which is an incentive to staff their regional.

GAC06 said:

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There's a rumor that the captain flowed to Delta then couldn't pass initial training then "flowed back" to Endeavor. If true, that's not a good look for delta.

Endeavor is a regional owned by Delta. Someone hired at Endeavor will eventually "flow" to Delta, which is an incentive to staff their regional.

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Well if that pilot was actually a Navy pilot as reported, that would make sense. Navy pilots don't flare when landing on an aircraft carrier.

I think it's exceptionally common for mainline pilots to 'flow' from their regionals. That's basically what the flight training outfits sell new pilots on happening. Not enough former-military nowadays and you don't start right out of flight school on 777/A350's etc.

Quote:

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Well if that pilot was actually a Navy pilot as reported,

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I jokingly said that on this thread, obviously I have no idea who the pilot was.

Yes, there are various flow agreements in place, mostly with the wholly owned regionals to their respective majors. The issue here is if Delta decided he couldn't hack it there but sent him back to their regional to keep flying Delta passengers

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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Well if that pilot was actually a Navy pilot as reported,

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I jokingly said that on this thread, obviously I have no idea who the pilot was.

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Oh I know that was a joke which is why I used the winky face.

I'm slow today. Well, maybe everyday

It's almost certainly not a Delta management decision even accepting that as an accurate chain of events. ALPA/union rules (which are asinine, imho) dictate what they can do with members.

It's highly improbable they had the option to terminate his career just because he failed out of A320 etc. qualification.

Whatever arrangement is in place is there because Delta management agreed to it.

GAC06 said:

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There's a rumor that the captain flowed to Delta then couldn't pass initial training then "flowed back" to Endeavor. If true, that's not a good look for delta.

Endeavor is a regional owned by Delta. Someone hired at Endeavor will eventually "flow" to Delta, which is an incentive to staff their regional.

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Incredible! Doesn't surprise me. If you can't get through Delta training after flying at a regional you shouldn't be flying anymore.

Very similar to the hard landing at a mainline carrier recently. It's alleged he checked many diversity boxes, failed training at other carriers and was given many hours of extra training only to bend an airplane

AvsB said:

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Just a theory (and pardon my minimal knowledge of aviation) but couldn't an error in the ILS or field altitude entered wrong cause something like a "slam" and lack of flare? Say the airport was at 250 feet above sea level but it was entered into the flight computer at 150 feet above...wouldn't the plane/pilot just "Fly" the plane into the ground thinking they had another 100 feet to go? Obviously snow covered ground would further confuse from what pilot sees vs. what the flight computer is calling out?

Or have I watched Die Hard 2 one to many times!?

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No

v1rotate92 said:

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Very similar to the hard landing at a mainline carrier recently. It's alleged he checked many diversity boxes, failed training at other carriers and was given many hours of extra training only to bend an airplane

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This one?
Alaska Air 1288 SNA

Kansas Kid said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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Only watched on my phone...

No flare, I think so three wheel sets hit at almost the same time. BB will confirm WoW times. Going to watch again to see the control see the surfaces.

Edit to add... There was a bounce and I thought I saw the right wing to dip. Can't tell the angle of the wind from the little bit of blowing snow in the video, but VASAviation had ATC saying it was from 270, or 40* off the right front. Could dip the wing a little, maybe. But that video looked smooth other than the pancake roll up ending

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It looks like he landed first on the right wheel which then appears to collapse causing the wing strike and subsequent roll.

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Right wheel first would be proper when crabbing into a crosswind. They were landing on 23 so a heading (within rounding) of 230*. THeir nose was pointed SW.

ATC in the Tower reported winds 270 at 23 gusting 33. So 270*, wind was coming from due West at 23 knots gusting to 33 knots.

IF this is sufficient to require significant crabbing you point the nose towards the wind and the strength of the wind keeps pushing you away so you're flying kinda sideways. If you've ever seen a crab walk sideways on the beach, hence the term; crabbing.

Just before touchdown they'll straighten out. But you keep the wingtip on the upwind side just a bit low to keep the wind on top of it. If the wind gets under that wing it can really lift that wing and roll the plane. So that could be why the right main would touch first.

Still gotta flare though. You're trading forward and downward velocity for increased drag with some extra lift to settle the plane gently.

Sidenote... Shorter runways they'll sometimes stick the plane in a little harder when you don't have that extra room to roll out. Longer runways pilots can trade some distance to make it smoother. Crosswinds of course just make it all more difficult.

I'll let one of the pilots here say how "severe" a wind at 40* off the nose is in terms of crabbing etc. 40* on a clock face would be at 1:30.

Ok... I just full screened the video and drug the playback with my mouse on a real monitor...

They came in more or less fuselage level but right wing low. They stuck the R MLG and looks like it collapsed on touchdown. The plane just continued it's descent. Fire erupted, I presume as the R MLG structure traveled up and through the fuel tanks on the right wing. Simultaneously the right wing tip touched the ground. This digging into the snow caused the plane to both roll and yaw (turn) to the right. The plane rolled over along it's longitudinal axis and spun 180 degrees.

Edit... It may not have done the 180...

From r/aviation

Crashing stuff is hot hot hot!

Totally agree. I was surprised by the lack of flare as well. The key question is what does the black box say was the g force on the right main gear and did it exceed the design or did a pin fail like on the landing gear failure in the SNA incident posted above. If it was the later, while there likely was some pilot error due to the lack of flare, it would be more on a part failing which would point to the maintenance crew.

It looks like he may have exceeded the design perameters of the gear but really hard to tell from the video.

Man, I'm going to have to binge watch Air Disasters in a few years when all these episodes come out.

It's produced in Canada

Not sure where you are getting this rumor from but he declined the flow. Please don't put things out there unless you know it's 100% true. Thanks.

That's why I qualified it as a rumor