techno-ag said:

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chickencoupe16 said:

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Sea Speed said:

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Canyon is so defensive because his daughter is a pilot.

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That probably plays in a little but also, everyone is so damn quick to hope for an accident to be the result of DEI. DEI is awful and should be squashed like the bug it is but that doesn't mean that a female pilot has to be incompetent. Similarly, rookies at any skill are more likely to have accidents and mistakes but that doesn't mean that this had to be because the pilot was new or that the pilot even was new.

It all gets kind of annoying when it's the first thing people run to with little to no actual substance.

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At the same time DEI has become a serious issue. It's perfectly normal to ask if DEI had anything to do with it these days. Nothing wrong with that. And if there appears to be undue delays in information or obfuscation or signs of a coverup, it will only add to the speculation. That's just human nature. Best way to squash rumors is to get the truth out asap.

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Ask? Yes. Claim as fact? No.

And while I agree that facts and openness squash rumors, if I'm in charge of Delta, I have duty to protect my people as well. Any good leader understands that. There's a balance there and while we can argue the exact point of the balance, it exists. Maybe they're waiting for some good reason to allow the pilots time to situate their physical, mental, and/or emotional health.

GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's a fact that we've had two crashes in 20-days by people either on their check-ride or having recently failed their check-ride.

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We don't know that

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chickencoupe16 said:

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Sea Speed said:

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chickencoupe16 said:

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Sea Speed said:

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Canyon is so defensive because his daughter is a pilot.

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That probably plays in a little but also, everyone is so damn quick to hope for an accident to be the result of DEI. DEI is awful and should be squashed like the bug it is but that doesn't mean that a female pilot has to be incompetent. Similarly, rookies at any skill are more likely to have accidents and mistakes but that doesn't mean that this had to be because the pilot was new or that the pilot even was new.

It all gets kind of annoying when it's the first thing people run to with little to no actual substance.

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I understand the trepidation but that is the logical conclusion many people warned about while dei was being pushed for years. When entities proudly claimed they were hiring based on dei criteria, you almost have to assume people were not hired for their actual skills and abilities but rather their immutable characteristics.

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If DEI was excoriated in light of evidence, no logical person would complain. But the fact is that it is only rumor at this point and many DEI rumors have been confirmed false including recent aviation incidents because people jumped on the bandwagon that was built by idiots and/or bots with a Twitter account.

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Yes. We have a to build up a good collection of stats from accidents and deaths before we can draw any conclusion on the matter. We don't have that yet. I agree.

Some good Sim animations here.
One point he makes that I hadn't considered previously. Since the CRJ mounts the engines on the fuselage rather than under the wing the whole plane sits closer to the ground with shorter gear and (therefore obviously) less wingtip to ground clearance.

Everyone has been saying the gear collapsed, but as soon as he mentioned the shorter gear I immediately began to question that collapse narrative that even I have typed out in earlier pages of this thread.

GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's a fact that we've had two crashes in 20-days by people either on their check-ride or having recently failed their check-ride.

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We don't know that

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They came out today and said the Blackhawk pilot was on a check-ride. Also read today where the kick-flip pilot had recently failed her check-ride for mainline Delta.

techno-ag said:

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GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's a fact that we've had two crashes in 20-days by people either on their check-ride or having recently failed their check-ride.

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We don't know that

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We don't know anyone failed checkrides here

GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's a fact that we've had two crashes in 20-days by people either on their check-ride or having recently failed their check-ride.

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We don't know that

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Also... Check-rides are annual (or recurring at set intervals). They aren't a new hire once and done.

There's no way she failed anything at delta if she finished training at Endeavor a month ago.

We don't know the facts here yet.

Companies claim they are hiring based on dei criteria seems like a pretty good bit of evidence. Near misses went up something like 66% between 23 and 24 iirc. I hashed that all out on a previous thread but I am not going to go dig it up to find it. Of course some of that blame falls squarely on ATC,but that bit of data is alarming no matter where the blame lies.

Again, the logical conclusion of companies basing their hiring standards on dei is that people will blame dei on accidents. There is no one to blame for that except those pushing dei.

Quote:

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Near misses went up something like 66% between 23 and 24 iirc.

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With the rollout of ADSB, is it possible we are now seeing near misses that went unnoticed before?

That stat is almost certainly due to a change in reporting or gathering the data imo

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's a fact that we've had two crashes in 20-days by people either on their check-ride or having recently failed their check-ride.

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We don't know that

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They came out today and said the Blackhawk pilot was on a check-ride. Also read today where the kick-flip pilot had recently failed her check-ride for mainline Delta.

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The pilot just got her ATP license.
The pilot failed her Delta mainline check ride.

Which is it? Both can't be true.

The ONLY thing officially known about the pilots in the cockpit of the Endeavor/Delta Connection flight

They survived. That is ALL that is known
The rest is internet banter and speculation.

I'm not saying that photo of the Endeavor dispatch is fake, but you've got a first name only. But if that's enough to fit some people's preconceived notions then it's accepted as gospel and off to the hersey races.

Edit... Based on comments below the X post has been edited by that account and the pic re-cropped. Perhaps the full pic is still in the comments, but I think you need an X account to read the comments.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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Near misses went up something like 66% between 23 and 24 iirc.

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With the rollout of ADSB, is it possible we are now seeing near misses that went unnoticed before?

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Don't forget the publicly available ATC recordings-
"SWxxx Stop! Stop" "AA go around!" "Tower were going missed, plane on runway"

Maybe it's more available info, maybe not. Hiring on both sides of the mic has been under pressure due to COVID requirements and reduction of talent pool due to diversity goals.

The Kraken said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's a fact that we've had two crashes in 20-days by people either on their check-ride or having recently failed their check-ride.

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We don't know that

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They came out today and said the Blackhawk pilot was on a check-ride. Also read today where the kick-flip pilot had recently failed her check-ride for mainline Delta.

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The pilot just got her ATP license.
The pilot failed her Delta mainline check ride.

Which is it? Both can't be true.

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Have set a reminder to bump in ~20-days when the facts trickle out showing this is the case.

GAC06 said:

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That stat is almost certainly due to a change in reporting or gathering the data imo

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That was rolled out in 2020. Should we have not seen a rise between 2022 and 2023? The number of flights in 2023 and 2024 was about the same. Between 2021 and 2022, we had an increase of about 1 million flights. Between 2022 and 2023, another million increase. So an even bigger rise because of increased flights.

techno-ag said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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And as we have seen on this very thread, the poison that is DEI, is that you are guilty until proven innocent, if you aren't a straight, white, older, male.

Newsflash: Planes crashed before DEI. They crashed during DEI. If we wipe out the cancer of DEI, they will still crash.

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But at least we'll know it wasn't on account of DEI.

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This. I would rather have white dudes for anything that is potentially life or freedom threatening. Pilots, Doctors, Lawyers, Police, EMS, Fire fighters, combat arms soldiers and the like. I know they do not want to hire white men, so if they are there, they were selected from the deepest and most competitive applicant pool.

Give me the white dude.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The Kraken said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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GAC06 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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It's a fact that we've had two crashes in 20-days by people either on their check-ride or having recently failed their check-ride.

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We don't know that

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They came out today and said the Blackhawk pilot was on a check-ride. Also read today where the kick-flip pilot had recently failed her check-ride for mainline Delta.

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The pilot just got her ATP license.
The pilot failed her Delta mainline check ride.

Which is it? Both can't be true.

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Have set a reminder to bump in ~20-days when the facts trickle out showing this is the case.

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Which part? There's is absolutely no way she got her ATP a month ago and failed anything at Delta

I hashed out all the flights in that thread and posting images of tables as well as links to the data. Someone tried to argue there was a massive increase in flight numbers but that simply wasn't the case, and certainly not an increase that would support the significant rise in near misses.

GAC06 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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others also running with the info of one month licensed female FO in charge.

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So what?

Someone in the industry can confirm, but I've been told that the first time a Southwest First Officer actually flies a 737 is on a routine flight with people in the back. They train in simulators, they don't practice in empty 737s

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That's every airline. The pilot flying being new (if that's the case) is likely a contributing factor but it's not some smoking gun for DEI if it happens to be a woman

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But like I sad earlier, when this woman's airline was super in-your-face about DEI and the importance of having all-female ("unmanned") flights etc., isn't it only natural if people wonder?

Feel free to wonder

GAC06 said:

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They're hiring lots of pilots with the bare minimum experience requirements, so good luck making that case. If she passed the approved training, she was qualified to be there.

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Not if
1. They are not hiring white males
2. If the approved training was dumbed down in order for unqualified pilots to qualify because they are short poplots due to number one above.

What is not coming out is the gender/race if the new pilots.

Science Denier said:

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GAC06 said:

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They're hiring lots of pilots with the bare minimum experience requirements, so good luck making that case. If she passed the approved training, she was qualified to be there.

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Not if
1. They are not hiring white males
2. If the approved training was dumbed down in order for unqualified pilots to qualify because they are short poplots due to number one above.

What is not coming out is the gender/race if the new pilots.

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Endeavor posts pictures of their new hire classes. They look about like I thought they would.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15wmTA7F8A/?mibextid=wwXIfr

As for what's come out about the mishap pilots, nothing has officially been released that I'm aware of.

Tom Fox said:

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techno-ag said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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And as we have seen on this very thread, the poison that is DEI, is that you are guilty until proven innocent, if you aren't a straight, white, older, male.

Newsflash: Planes crashed before DEI. They crashed during DEI. If we wipe out the cancer of DEI, they will still crash.

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But at least we'll know it wasn't on account of DEI.

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This. I would rather have white dudes for anything that is potentially life or freedom threatening. Pilots, Doctors, Lawyers, Police, EMS, Fire fighters, combat arms soldiers and the like. I know they do not want to hire white men, so if they are there, they were selected from the deepest and most competitive applicant pool.

Give me the white dude.

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Yikes.

If DEI is dictating hiring practices, what part of what he said is illogical?

GAC06 said:

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Science Denier said:

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GAC06 said:

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They're hiring lots of pilots with the bare minimum experience requirements, so good luck making that case. If she passed the approved training, she was qualified to be there.

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Not if
1. They are not hiring white males
2. If the approved training was dumbed down in order for unqualified pilots to qualify because they are short poplots due to number one above.

What is not coming out is the gender/race if the new pilots.

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Endeavor posts pictures of their new hire classes. They look about like I thought they would.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15wmTA7F8A/?mibextid=wwXIfr

As for what's come out about the mishap pilots, nothing has officially been released that I'm aware of.

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They look younger than I thought they would.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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techno-ag said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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And as we have seen on this very thread, the poison that is DEI, is that you are guilty until proven innocent, if you aren't a straight, white, older, male.

Newsflash: Planes crashed before DEI. They crashed during DEI. If we wipe out the cancer of DEI, they will still crash.

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But at least we'll know it wasn't on account of DEI.

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This. I would rather have white dudes for anything that is potentially life or freedom threatening. Pilots, Doctors, Lawyers, Police, EMS, Fire fighters, combat arms soldiers and the like. I know they do not want to hire white men, so if they are there, they were selected from the deepest and most competitive applicant pool.

Give me the white dude.

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Give me the most qualified.

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Yep...but need to go back to merit-based society because DEI is murky-ing those waters. It's a guessing game right now as to whether someone truly beat out others for that spot based on their own merit. It is actually UNFAIR to many black people/brown people and females...because now it is often in the backs of people minds...guessing as to whether you earned your spot or not...understandably so.This is all over corporate America, but where it obviously really matters is in things like medicine, aviation, military, secret service etc.

For instance...there is NO FUGGIN WAY this pudgy lady was the absolute best for this job. Just no way. Bless her heart, I admire her for shooting for the stars...but under pressure she completely forgot how to holster her service pistol. There are numerous other clear shortcomings as well.

The government/airlines/pilot unions have all the data you need to make your own opinion of the success or failure of DEI in pilot hiring. GOOD LUCK getting any of that data.
A recent walk through IAH, I saw 5 large advertisements with pilots on them. Not one was a white male. The airlines are vested in the success of getting diversity up front flying the jets. No wonder they are willing to give them extra training to get "proficient." Maybe proficient only with great weather and no cross wind???

redcrayon said:

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GAC06 said:

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Science Denier said:

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GAC06 said:

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They're hiring lots of pilots with the bare minimum experience requirements, so good luck making that case. If she passed the approved training, she was qualified to be there.

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Not if
1. They are not hiring white males
2. If the approved training was dumbed down in order for unqualified pilots to qualify because they are short poplots due to number one above.

What is not coming out is the gender/race if the new pilots.

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Endeavor posts pictures of their new hire classes. They look about like I thought they would.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15wmTA7F8A/?mibextid=wwXIfr

As for what's come out about the mishap pilots, nothing has officially been released that I'm aware of.

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They look younger than I thought they would.

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Regionals are a stepping stone. They are always hiring young pilots.

ETFan said:

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Tom Fox said:

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techno-ag said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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And as we have seen on this very thread, the poison that is DEI, is that you are guilty until proven innocent, if you aren't a straight, white, older, male.

Newsflash: Planes crashed before DEI. They crashed during DEI. If we wipe out the cancer of DEI, they will still crash.

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But at least we'll know it wasn't on account of DEI.

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This. I would rather have white dudes for anything that is potentially life or freedom threatening. Pilots, Doctors, Lawyers, Police, EMS, Fire fighters, combat arms soldiers and the like. I know they do not want to hire white men, so if they are there, they were selected from the deepest and most competitive applicant pool.

Give me the white dude.

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Yikes.

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I assume that you do not agree with this statement: white males were selected from the deepest and most competitive applicant pool?

You must not have applied to college or government jobs recently if you think that statement is untrue. It is fact.